Why does the government want your guns?

Merkava_4 · January 23, 2013, 12:48 AM

Why does the government want your guns? Have you ever thought about that?

Here's another question:

What keeps the government in power? I'll tell you, it's quite simple really:

1. The control over the belief system
2. The control over the financial system
3. The control over violence

The control over the belief system

Why do you pay your taxes? Because you believe that if you don't, you'll be put in jail.

Why do you pull over to the side of the road when the policeman turns on his flashing red lights? Because you believe he has the authority to do so.

Why do you go to work to earn wages? Because you believe that with those dollars earned, you'll be able to purchase goods and services.

The control over the financial system

As long as the government assures its citizens that the dollar has value, the government maintains control over the financial system. The government maintains the dollar's value by making sure it remains the world's reserve currency by making sure that only dollars are used to buy oil. As long as the world needs dollars to buy oil, and as long as oil is the predominant source of energy, the dollar will always have value.

What keeps control over violence and makes sure violence is kept to a minimum? Our law enforcement officers; and just incase that line of defense fails, we have our military.

What if ... what if the belief system failed because the citizens no longer felt the government had any legitimate authority?

What if ... what if the financial system failed because the dollar no longer had value?

So now the citizens no longer believe that the government is legitimate; the dollar has no value; and the citizens are angry. So what does the government have left to fall back on? They still have the control over violence don't they? Of course they do, by utilizing their law enforcement officers and their military. But there's one small problem: THE SECOND AMENDMENT. The people are still armed. "Oh gosh darn," the government says; "we should have taken their guns away earlier."

**Frank Ettin** · January 23, 2013, 01:06 AM

I think we badly miss the boat when we put all the blame on government. We pick the government. It's fashionable to blame politicians for restrictive gun laws. But politicians are interested in getting elected and re-elected.

So what it really comes down to is our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc. If enough of our neighbors, enough of the people in our communities, enough of the people in our towns, enough of the people we work with, enough of the people we see at the mall, etc., don't like guns, and don't trust the rest of us with guns, are afraid of guns and people with guns, politicians who take anti-gun stands can get elected and re-elected (and bureaucrats who take anti-gun stands can keep their jobs).

So we need to remember that a large part of the battle to keep our guns needs to start with our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc.

Be ourselves good ambassadors for shooting and gun ownership -- dispelling the negative stereotypes many members of the public have of gun owners. Rhetoric like the OP's post doesn't help.

There would not be restrictive gun laws if enough of our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc., did not vote for and support the people who enact those laws.

Dr Big Bird PhD · January 23, 2013, 02:33 AM

While I can agree with why your skepticism, I disagree with the points you make.

The institution of government was supposed to be a rational and objective means of providing an "umpire" over daily and judicial activities. If people broke the rules through physical coercion, violence, or fraud, then they get put in the penalty box.

However the distortion of this came from realizing that the game can be controlled by the umpires. Since the umpires are chosen by popular consensus and not rational meritocracy, the bastardized permutations of our forefather's ideas are repeated and enforced ad nauseum. Their original intent seems to have been lost.

I know this is a gross over-simplification, but I hope I've made my point.

Alabama Shooter · January 23, 2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

I think we badly miss the boat when we put all the blame on government. We pick the government. It's fashionable to blame politicians for restrictive gun laws. But politicians are interested in getting elected and re-elected.

So what it really comes down to is our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc.

Exactly. The Government in of itself is not interested in gun control. If none of the electorate wanted it they would not care at all.

jimbob86 · January 23, 2013, 10:49 AM

The idea of government is based upon the Social Compact- you behave yourself and do the right thing, and others will, too. Those who do not do the right thing are supposed to be punished .....

The problem is this: too many have figured out that they can game the system, and not do the right thing, from the huge number of beneficiaries of the Welfare State, who do not work, yet continue to eat up everybody else's reward for their efforts and the people in the financial system that game that system, producing money without producing anything of value, to the people that say there can be no moral judgements, as such are "unfair" or "unkind" ..... to the politicians that enable all of the above in exchange for their votes and their campaign donations.

The Gods of the Copybook Headings will not be denied, and this whole rotten thing will come crashing down unless there are some serious (and necessarily painful!) reforms ...... and it may be too late already.

Glenn E. Meyer · January 23, 2013, 10:49 AM

We don't need grand conspiracy threads. Let's skip that.

jimbob86 · January 23, 2013, 10:54 AM

Oh, I don't think it's a Grand Conspiracy, Glenn ..... it's just that bad behavior is no longer discouraged, but in many cases subsidized, because such is easier and more fun in the short term than actually working and being productive...... the time to pay the Piper, is coming, though...... it ain't gonna be pretty ......

Glenn E. Meyer · January 23, 2013, 11:02 AM

Going nowhere folks. Look, we have have a slew of general - What the blah, blah is going on? Let's blah, blah. It's a plot threads.

Let's not start new ones just to say something like that. Add it to another ongoing thread.

Alabama Shooter · January 23, 2013, 11:03 AM

Jimbob- Sounds familiar, seems we have heard it all before...

http://donboys.cstnews.com/negative-...-early-america

Quote:

Newspapers that supported Adams warned that if Jefferson won the presidency “murder, robbery, rape, adultery, and incest will all be openly taught and practiced.” He was also accused of fathering children with one of his slaves, and evidence seems to support that charge. They further charged that Jefferson would burn Bibles and churches.

jimbob86 · January 23, 2013, 11:08 AM

Not following you, AS ..... I was commenting on the general "gaming the system", and you referenced political attack ads of the early 1800's.

Glenn E. Meyer · January 23, 2013, 11:59 AM

Yeah - I don't see the point of this thread.

Continue discussion in the general threads on the situation.

Closed.

January 23, 2013, 12:48 AM	#1
Merkava_4 Junior Member Join Date: January 19, 2013 Posts: 1	Why does the government want your guns? Why does the government want your guns? Have you ever thought about that? Here's another question: What keeps the government in power? I'll tell you, it's quite simple really: 1. The control over the belief system 2. The control over the financial system 3. The control over violence The control over the belief system Why do you pay your taxes? Because you believe that if you don't, you'll be put in jail. Why do you pull over to the side of the road when the policeman turns on his flashing red lights? Because you believe he has the authority to do so. Why do you go to work to earn wages? Because you believe that with those dollars earned, you'll be able to purchase goods and services. The control over the financial system As long as the government assures its citizens that the dollar has value, the government maintains control over the financial system. The government maintains the dollar's value by making sure it remains the world's reserve currency by making sure that only dollars are used to buy oil. As long as the world needs dollars to buy oil, and as long as oil is the predominant source of energy, the dollar will always have value. What keeps control over violence and makes sure violence is kept to a minimum? Our law enforcement officers; and just incase that line of defense fails, we have our military. What if ... what if the belief system failed because the citizens no longer felt the government had any legitimate authority? What if ... what if the financial system failed because the dollar no longer had value? So now the citizens no longer believe that the government is legitimate; the dollar has no value; and the citizens are angry. So what does the government have left to fall back on? They still have the control over violence don't they? Of course they do, by utilizing their law enforcement officers and their military. But there's one small problem: THE SECOND AMENDMENT. The people are still armed. "Oh gosh darn," the government says; "we should have taken their guns away earlier." Last edited by Frank Ettin; January 23, 2013 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Delete inflamatory political - conspiracy video

January 23, 2013, 01:06 AM	#2
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	I think we badly miss the boat when we put all the blame on government. We pick the government. It's fashionable to blame politicians for restrictive gun laws. But politicians are interested in getting elected and re-elected. So what it really comes down to is our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc. If enough of our neighbors, enough of the people in our communities, enough of the people in our towns, enough of the people we work with, enough of the people we see at the mall, etc., don't like guns, and don't trust the rest of us with guns, are afraid of guns and people with guns, politicians who take anti-gun stands can get elected and re-elected (and bureaucrats who take anti-gun stands can keep their jobs). So we need to remember that a large part of the battle to keep our guns needs to start with our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc. Be ourselves good ambassadors for shooting and gun ownership -- dispelling the negative stereotypes many members of the public have of gun owners. Rhetoric like the OP's post doesn't help. There would not be restrictive gun laws if enough of our neighbors, the people in our communities, the people in our towns, the people we work with, the people we see at the mall, etc., did not vote for and support the people who enact those laws. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

January 23, 2013, 02:33 AM	#3
Dr Big Bird PhD Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2012 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 779	While I can agree with why your skepticism, I disagree with the points you make. The institution of government was supposed to be a rational and objective means of providing an "umpire" over daily and judicial activities. If people broke the rules through physical coercion, violence, or fraud, then they get put in the penalty box. However the distortion of this came from realizing that the game can be controlled by the umpires. Since the umpires are chosen by popular consensus and not rational meritocracy, the bastardized permutations of our forefather's ideas are repeated and enforced ad nauseum. Their original intent seems to have been lost. I know this is a gross over-simplification, but I hope I've made my point. __________________ I told the new me, "Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'" But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back." Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor

January 23, 2013, 10:49 AM	#6
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	We don't need grand conspiracy threads. Let's skip that. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

January 23, 2013, 11:02 AM	#8
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Going nowhere folks. Look, we have have a slew of general - What the blah, blah is going on? Let's blah, blah. It's a plot threads. Let's not start new ones just to say something like that. Add it to another ongoing thread. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

January 23, 2013, 10:49 AM	#5
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	The idea of government is based upon the Social Compact- you behave yourself and do the right thing, and others will, too. Those who do not do the right thing are supposed to be punished ..... The problem is this: too many have figured out that they can game the system, and not do the right thing, from the huge number of beneficiaries of the Welfare State, who do not work, yet continue to eat up everybody else's reward for their efforts and the people in the financial system that game that system, producing money without producing anything of value, to the people that say there can be no moral judgements, as such are "unfair" or "unkind" ..... to the politicians that enable all of the above in exchange for their votes and their campaign donations. The Gods of the Copybook Headings will not be denied, and this whole rotten thing will come crashing down unless there are some serious (and necessarily painful!) reforms ...... and it may be too late already.

January 23, 2013, 10:54 AM	#7
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Oh, I don't think it's a Grand Conspiracy, Glenn ..... it's just that bad behavior is no longer discouraged, but in many cases subsidized, because such is easier and more fun in the short term than actually working and being productive...... the time to pay the Piper, is coming, though...... it ain't gonna be pretty ......

January 23, 2013, 11:08 AM	#10
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Not following you, AS ..... I was commenting on the general "gaming the system", and you referenced political attack ads of the early 1800's.

January 23, 2013, 11:59 AM	#11
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Yeah - I don't see the point of this thread. Continue discussion in the general threads on the situation. Closed. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens