AA7 with 180 FMJ

Misssissippi Dave · July 3, 2013, 07:33 PM

I am going to try some .40 loads with AA7 and Montana Gold 180 grain FMJ bullets. I have check load data in 3 places and they cover a full 2 grains of powder from the minimum to maximum load data over all. The highest amount of powder in my test loads is 8.4 grains. Does anyone have a tested load range for this combination? I am only loading for range use.

mxjunky78 · July 3, 2013, 10:22 PM

I've shot 180gr lead round nose over 8.0gr AA7 with outstanding results. I got under a 2" group at 25yrds with a Glock 22.

Mike / Tx · July 4, 2013, 05:21 AM

I can only add that with the combo your using the powder should work out fine. Just start low and work up. Look for accuracy over velocity and have fun.

I use #7 in my 10mm for loads in the 165 - 175gr bullet weights and it does a great job. So much so it is all I use for them.

Since I have a bit more case, and barrel length, (7") to play with, I use AA-9 for the 180's and up. I simply get a better velocity, a bit less pressure, and excellent accuracy with it. Not saying that the #7 doesn' give either, but the added velocity, with a touch less pressure, I get with #9 just works out better on my pistol and for hunting.

Misssissippi Dave · July 4, 2013, 06:22 AM

I use AA7 for .357 magnum. I'm quite happy with it so I have plenty on hand. I thought it might be a good powder for .40 as well. I think my starting test loads might be a bit weak to cycle the pistol and I might even have to go higher in powder to get it to work well. Once I reach a level where it cycles, I then look for accuracy. If I don't get the results I'm looking for I will probably try AA5 next. I have a few different powders I could use. It does make selecting the better choice easier to do when others have already determined what it is already.

steve4102 · July 4, 2013, 08:08 AM

Go here and get Accurate's New and recently updated 40 S&W data.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-con...pec_7-2-13.pdf

Mike / Tx · July 4, 2013, 09:22 AM

Quote:

I think my starting test loads might be a bit weak to cycle the pistol and I might even have to go higher in powder to get it to work well. Once I reach a level where it cycles, I then look for accuracy. If I don't get the results I'm looking for I will probably try AA5 next. I have a few different powders I could use. It does make selecting the better choice easier to do when others have already determined what it is already.

One other thing to keep in consideration, your cases are a touch shorter than with the 10mm, therefore the 180gr bullets will take up more room in your cases which will give you a higher pressure per load. More or less what I am doing with #9 your probably going to see using #7 if not better. So in looking at the laod data your not going to need as much powder to get where I am with the velocity, but your pressure will be higher.

That is why I mentioned looking for accuracy as you go. Your absolutely right about function as well, if you don't have that, the rest is a moot point.

Misssissippi Dave · July 4, 2013, 01:14 PM

I tried my first test loads today. I found using an OAL of 1.135" with 8.0 to 8.1 grains of AA7 worked pretty good. I will be loading up a box of 50 for the next testing. It is a little milder load than what you often get with factory ammo but going hotter didn't help accuracy at all. Once I'm certain of this load I will probably start working up the next one. I plan to get at least 2 or 3 powders worked up with this bullet and then going to a different weight bullet and doing it all over again. I like having a selection of loads I can use for those times when I might not have my favorite stuff available.

Thanks for the updated site. I have it downloaded now.

WESHOOT2 · July 5, 2013, 06:28 AM

-Alliant Power Pistol

-Ramshot Silhouette

-Vihtavuori 3N37

-Hodgdon Universal

-Hodgdon Titegroup (I do not use this myself, but cannot deny its well-proven potential in not-MAX loads)

-others

Misssissippi Dave · July 5, 2013, 06:19 PM

If I wanted to load AA7 to velocities of factory ammo I guess I could using Speer load data. The speeds listed there are higher than you will get from AA's website data. I think I may be trying 3N37 next. I will probably follow that with WSF and maybe some WST for a soft shooting load. It seems there are several powders a person can use for this caliber.

57K · July 5, 2013, 06:45 PM

M.Dave, I agree with the recommendation of Silhouette and 3N37. I've used 3N37 since about the time it started being imported into the US. These powders are so similar to each other that there's no real reason to pay more for 3N37. Consult the SIERRA manual for their Max. Carges with the 180 gr. JHP and you'll see that there is only .1 grain separation between the 2 powders for the same performance. I use Silhouette for several cartridges including defense loads in .45 ACP where it's not only accurate, but probably the lowest flasher which it is treated for. As far as an accuracy powder, I've seen some good reloading articles where .40 S&W accuracy was the goal and my own tests concurred where I've had the best accuracy to-date using Ramshot True Blue. Early on, there were some issues with AA#7 that I'm sure are long since past and I'm pretty sure that the #7 sold today is coming from a different manufacturer that Western/Accurate is buying from. You can check me on their website, but I believe #7 is made in the USA. Nothing wrong with it, IMO, but I think True Blue and Silhouette are as good as it gets for .40 S&W and I'd get both for my loading (As I have) of target loads and defense/training loads.

Misssissippi Dave · July 5, 2013, 09:47 PM

I'm only loading range ammo in this caliber. I normally don't even consider carrying a .40. 9 mm and .45 seem to work for me and I'm not looking to change to yet another caliber now. I have 1 pound of 3n37 on hand and I am having trouble finding Silhouette right now. I have heard good things about it but I have yet to try it. It looks like True Blue is very similar to AA5. Silhouette looks like it might fill in nicely for some calibers I load for. Now I just need to get a pound to try it out before trying to locate it in 8 pound containers.

How does Silhouette behave with higher levels of heat? Mississippi is not known for really low temperatures.

WESHOOT2 · July 6, 2013, 06:18 AM

IME 3N37 and WAP (man I still gotta lotta WAP) are in the same burn rate range, but one offers significantly more room.
One is usable in more chamberings.
One offers a lower flash signature.
One costs more.

WESHOOT2 · July 6, 2013, 06:20 AM

Silhouette (in my case, WAP) is extremely stable and progressive regardless of use environment.

WESHOOT2 · July 6, 2013, 06:41 AM

Use Speer's data with Speer's bullets.

57K · July 6, 2013, 05:01 PM

Yeah, either SIERRA or SPEER's data will be better than Ramshot's which is pretty conservative. Silhouette (WAP) is a little denser than 3N37 and 3N37 isn't bad as far as flash but it's not treated as Silhouette is. The biggest difference I have found between the 2 powders is with 147 gr. JHPs in 9mm where Sil. will hit Max. pressure before 3N37. As far as I'm concerned there is a very good test for pressure stability and that comes from the IPSC guys loading Major 9 with 115 and 124 gr. Bullets. Unstable powders need not apply. The powders that are used the most are HS-6, 3N37, Silhouette, True Blue, Vectan SP-2 while it was available. Win. AutoComp is now being used and somewhat on a decline is LongShot. Others get mentioned but rarely used. The commonality is that these powders are all fine choices for the .40 S&W except for some issues I've seen from QuickLoad regarding Hodgdon's Max. charge of LongShot with a 180 gr. JHP. Whether QL is right or not I can't say, and I don't have it. The data on the powders in question came from a reloading moderator from another forum. It also predicted over-pressure for Universal with a 180 loaded to the Max. charge. I got away from using flake powders a number of years ago and wouldn't use Universal anyway. The prediction for LongShot is at least troublesome and as always, approach Max. loads with caution. Slightly faster burners can be used for target velocity loads, but True Blue shines in that regard and across the board with any handgun cartridge it's as universal as Unique and since it's a dense ball powder there's no comparison to the improvement in metering. There are similarities as far as burn rate to AA#5. I've used both and easily prefer True Blue and it is very pressure stable. One of the few powders recommended for loading the problematic 5.7 X 28mm as far as pressure stability. Like the FN, True Blue comes from Belgium and a former Ramshot ballistician told me that factory FNH loads are charged with True Blue.

Misssissippi Dave · July 6, 2013, 10:36 PM

I picked up a pound of Silhouette at the gun show today. I will see how it works for my needs. It may be a little while before I get a load that works for me. I also found a gun while there. That cut into my budget for bullets so I probably won't be getting any different weight bullets for a little while to test.

WESHOOT2 · July 7, 2013, 08:05 AM

Most every modern-manufacture powder is flash-suppressed.
Some are just better at it

57K · July 7, 2013, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Most every modern-manufacture powder is flash-suppressed.
Some are just better at it

They say you're never too old to learn, but in over 28 years of handloading, that's the first time I've heard that. Some powders come by low flash naturally, usually dense sphericals, many do not and very few handgun propellants are actually treated for flash reduction except those sold to ammo-makers and used in defense loads.

I know you're a Power Pistol fan, and I remember when Hercules put it on the market claiming it had been used to load millions of 9mm rounds for the military. After I tried it, all I could think of was OMG, I hope not. Whatever they were using for 9mm military cartridges, I hope it was treated to reduce Power Pistol's flash. And as you know, Power Pistol is a large flake cut variant of Bullseye. Alliant just recently announced a new powder that IS treated for flash and it's also a Bullseye variant called BE-86. Hopefully, it's the version of Power Pistol they were using in those military 9mm loads.

WESHOOT2 · July 8, 2013, 07:08 AM

Often the powder manufacturer's data pamphlets and/or manuals include such info.

Power Pistol = "Bullseye 84"

Brutus · July 8, 2013, 02:30 PM

Glad you fellas have powder to burn. I can't find any anywhere. Ran out of
AA#7 & #5 some time back. Still have a little AA#9 left and I just finished off my last can of Unique.

Any of you guys have a 9mm load using 4350 or 3031?

Misssissippi Dave · July 8, 2013, 03:46 PM

Currently I'm loading 9 mm 115 grain FMJ with WST. This is a shotgun powder that normally is easier to find than even WSF. You can load this up to about mid range loads. Higher than that it will lose accuracy. It is also a compressed load so you are not going to ever double charge this one. WST is also great in .45 acp.

I'm still good on AA7, since I have about 5 pounds in the opened jug and another 8 pounder I haven't even taken out of the box yet. I only buy one pound of powder at a time for testing. When I am happy with it, I will start looking for it in 8 pound jugs. Once a jug is opened, I order another one to have on hand. This often leaves me with one 8 pounder opened and one new one on the shelf. I only do this for powders I really like. The amount of powder I saw at the gun show this weekend leads me to believe there might be more of it available later on in the year.

July 3, 2013, 07:33 PM	#1
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	AA7 with 180 FMJ I am going to try some .40 loads with AA7 and Montana Gold 180 grain FMJ bullets. I have check load data in 3 places and they cover a full 2 grains of powder from the minimum to maximum load data over all. The highest amount of powder in my test loads is 8.4 grains. Does anyone have a tested load range for this combination? I am only loading for range use.

July 4, 2013, 05:21 AM	#3
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I can only add that with the combo your using the powder should work out fine. Just start low and work up. Look for accuracy over velocity and have fun. I use #7 in my 10mm for loads in the 165 - 175gr bullet weights and it does a great job. So much so it is all I use for them. Since I have a bit more case, and barrel length, (7") to play with, I use AA-9 for the 180's and up. I simply get a better velocity, a bit less pressure, and excellent accuracy with it. Not saying that the #7 doesn' give either, but the added velocity, with a touch less pressure, I get with #9 just works out better on my pistol and for hunting. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

July 5, 2013, 06:28 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	great potential in 40 S&W -Alliant Power Pistol -Ramshot Silhouette -Vihtavuori 3N37 -Hodgdon Universal -Hodgdon Titegroup (I do not use this myself, but cannot deny its well-proven potential in not-MAX loads) -others __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 6, 2013, 06:18 AM	#12
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	mmmmmmmmmmm no; since 1995 IME 3N37 and WAP (man I still gotta lotta WAP) are in the same burn rate range, but one offers significantly more room. One is usable in more chamberings. One offers a lower flash signature. One costs more. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 6, 2013, 06:20 AM	#13
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	tested to almost ludicrous lengths Silhouette (in my case, WAP) is extremely stable and progressive regardless of use environment. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 3, 2013, 10:22 PM	#2
mxjunky78 Member Join Date: August 2, 2012 Posts: 61	I've shot 180gr lead round nose over 8.0gr AA7 with outstanding results. I got under a 2" group at 25yrds with a Glock 22.

July 4, 2013, 06:22 AM	#4
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I use AA7 for .357 magnum. I'm quite happy with it so I have plenty on hand. I thought it might be a good powder for .40 as well. I think my starting test loads might be a bit weak to cycle the pistol and I might even have to go higher in powder to get it to work well. Once I reach a level where it cycles, I then look for accuracy. If I don't get the results I'm looking for I will probably try AA5 next. I have a few different powders I could use. It does make selecting the better choice easier to do when others have already determined what it is already.

July 4, 2013, 08:08 AM	#5
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	Go here and get Accurate's New and recently updated 40 S&W data. http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-con...pec_7-2-13.pdf

July 4, 2013, 01:14 PM	#7
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I tried my first test loads today. I found using an OAL of 1.135" with 8.0 to 8.1 grains of AA7 worked pretty good. I will be loading up a box of 50 for the next testing. It is a little milder load than what you often get with factory ammo but going hotter didn't help accuracy at all. Once I'm certain of this load I will probably start working up the next one. I plan to get at least 2 or 3 powders worked up with this bullet and then going to a different weight bullet and doing it all over again. I like having a selection of loads I can use for those times when I might not have my favorite stuff available. Thanks for the updated site. I have it downloaded now.

July 5, 2013, 06:19 PM	#9
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	If I wanted to load AA7 to velocities of factory ammo I guess I could using Speer load data. The speeds listed there are higher than you will get from AA's website data. I think I may be trying 3N37 next. I will probably follow that with WSF and maybe some WST for a soft shooting load. It seems there are several powders a person can use for this caliber.

July 5, 2013, 06:45 PM	#10
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	M.Dave, I agree with the recommendation of Silhouette and 3N37. I've used 3N37 since about the time it started being imported into the US. These powders are so similar to each other that there's no real reason to pay more for 3N37. Consult the SIERRA manual for their Max. Carges with the 180 gr. JHP and you'll see that there is only .1 grain separation between the 2 powders for the same performance. I use Silhouette for several cartridges including defense loads in .45 ACP where it's not only accurate, but probably the lowest flasher which it is treated for. As far as an accuracy powder, I've seen some good reloading articles where .40 S&W accuracy was the goal and my own tests concurred where I've had the best accuracy to-date using Ramshot True Blue. Early on, there were some issues with AA#7 that I'm sure are long since past and I'm pretty sure that the #7 sold today is coming from a different manufacturer that Western/Accurate is buying from. You can check me on their website, but I believe #7 is made in the USA. Nothing wrong with it, IMO, but I think True Blue and Silhouette are as good as it gets for .40 S&W and I'd get both for my loading (As I have) of target loads and defense/training loads.

July 5, 2013, 09:47 PM	#11
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I'm only loading range ammo in this caliber. I normally don't even consider carrying a .40. 9 mm and .45 seem to work for me and I'm not looking to change to yet another caliber now. I have 1 pound of 3n37 on hand and I am having trouble finding Silhouette right now. I have heard good things about it but I have yet to try it. It looks like True Blue is very similar to AA5. Silhouette looks like it might fill in nicely for some calibers I load for. Now I just need to get a pound to try it out before trying to locate it in 8 pound containers. How does Silhouette behave with higher levels of heat? Mississippi is not known for really low temperatures.

July 6, 2013, 06:41 AM	#14
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Use Speer's data with Speer's bullets. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 6, 2013, 05:01 PM	#15
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	Yeah, either SIERRA or SPEER's data will be better than Ramshot's which is pretty conservative. Silhouette (WAP) is a little denser than 3N37 and 3N37 isn't bad as far as flash but it's not treated as Silhouette is. The biggest difference I have found between the 2 powders is with 147 gr. JHPs in 9mm where Sil. will hit Max. pressure before 3N37. As far as I'm concerned there is a very good test for pressure stability and that comes from the IPSC guys loading Major 9 with 115 and 124 gr. Bullets. Unstable powders need not apply. The powders that are used the most are HS-6, 3N37, Silhouette, True Blue, Vectan SP-2 while it was available. Win. AutoComp is now being used and somewhat on a decline is LongShot. Others get mentioned but rarely used. The commonality is that these powders are all fine choices for the .40 S&W except for some issues I've seen from QuickLoad regarding Hodgdon's Max. charge of LongShot with a 180 gr. JHP. Whether QL is right or not I can't say, and I don't have it. The data on the powders in question came from a reloading moderator from another forum. It also predicted over-pressure for Universal with a 180 loaded to the Max. charge. I got away from using flake powders a number of years ago and wouldn't use Universal anyway. The prediction for LongShot is at least troublesome and as always, approach Max. loads with caution. Slightly faster burners can be used for target velocity loads, but True Blue shines in that regard and across the board with any handgun cartridge it's as universal as Unique and since it's a dense ball powder there's no comparison to the improvement in metering. There are similarities as far as burn rate to AA#5. I've used both and easily prefer True Blue and it is very pressure stable. One of the few powders recommended for loading the problematic 5.7 X 28mm as far as pressure stability. Like the FN, True Blue comes from Belgium and a former Ramshot ballistician told me that factory FNH loads are charged with True Blue.

July 6, 2013, 10:36 PM	#16
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I picked up a pound of Silhouette at the gun show today. I will see how it works for my needs. It may be a little while before I get a load that works for me. I also found a gun while there. That cut into my budget for bullets so I probably won't be getting any different weight bullets for a little while to test.

July 7, 2013, 08:05 AM	#17
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	flash signature Most every modern-manufacture powder is flash-suppressed. Some are just better at it __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 8, 2013, 07:08 AM	#19
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I didn't know, either Often the powder manufacturer's data pamphlets and/or manuals include such info. Power Pistol = "Bullseye 84" __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

July 8, 2013, 02:30 PM	#20
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Glad you fellas have powder to burn. I can't find any anywhere. Ran out of AA#7 & #5 some time back. Still have a little AA#9 left and I just finished off my last can of Unique. Any of you guys have a 9mm load using 4350 or 3031?

July 8, 2013, 03:46 PM	#21
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	Currently I'm loading 9 mm 115 grain FMJ with WST. This is a shotgun powder that normally is easier to find than even WSF. You can load this up to about mid range loads. Higher than that it will lose accuracy. It is also a compressed load so you are not going to ever double charge this one. WST is also great in .45 acp. I'm still good on AA7, since I have about 5 pounds in the opened jug and another 8 pounder I haven't even taken out of the box yet. I only buy one pound of powder at a time for testing. When I am happy with it, I will start looking for it in 8 pound jugs. Once a jug is opened, I order another one to have on hand. This often leaves me with one 8 pounder opened and one new one on the shelf. I only do this for powders I really like. The amount of powder I saw at the gun show this weekend leads me to believe there might be more of it available later on in the year.