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Old February 20, 2006, 02:13 PM   #1
okiefarmer
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Options for BP projos

Long time lurker/surfer, first time poster. Traditionally been a centerfire shooter/reloader for many years. Built all the AK/FAL/etc kits I care to, and now seem to have fallen for the BP curse. Just more toys to collect cause I can't get rid of what I have. Picked up a Jukar CVA Kentucky pistol in 45 caliber. Of the many bullet molds I have, none are 45 round ball. I do have a Ruger Old Army in 45 and cast for it also. The projo does seem to fit the bore of the CVA all right. but I am also aware of the importance of the bullet/barrel fit in a BP. The Ruger Old Army bullet having a stepped land OD, the bottom land near a .452 and the next two bands being .456 This seems to be a tight fit, and I have to tap it in with something quite solid before pushing in with ramrod. Should I size to .452 and use a patch or size to perhaps .454 w/o patch. I am also aware that a true BP shooter should be using pure lead, although I cast for the Ruger using WW with farily good accuracy. To sum up, can I use this Ruger mouldrf bullet with some success or should I look into a projo specifically for the front stuffer 45?

Thanks,
Okie out
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Old February 20, 2006, 02:26 PM   #2
taralon
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Depending how long/heavy that is you shouldn't have much of a problem shooting it. If I'm reading how difficult it is to seat right, you're engraving the rifling when you load it right? In which case you've fairly much duplicated the Lee REAL bullet. Patches are not used with conicals, but an overpowder wad may be used. That bullet may shoot well, it may not. The twist in that barrel is probably more suited for patched round ball. Still keep the loads within the recommended and you aren't going to blow the gun up by any means.

I'd probably shoot it a bunch with the .456 sized projectile and see how it does. Seems to me that the groove diameter of the barrels that come with that kit should be about .458 or so with the lands right on .450.

I know that the round ball I shoot out of a similar pistol, and my rifles are usualy .450s with .005 patch or .449s with a .010 patch which is incredibly tight. Still the tighter it is, the better it seems to shoot.
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Old February 20, 2006, 06:37 PM   #3
okiefarmer
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Thanks Taralon,

The Old Army bullet I cast is 250 grain RN. I haven't put it on paper yet, just playing with loads, I am using some Pyrodex I have had in the shop for a while. I know I am not a purist, but Pyrodex works for me for now. I mixed up a batch of homemade lube ie., beeswax, crisco, and LEE Alox for the Ruger and it seems to work well. Am using it on the CVA for now. Was concerned that there are enough grease grooves, but I guess if it works for the wheel gun it should work for the single shot. I also have a boatload of 230 LRN cast for the 45 ACP, and I was just trying for fit and at .452 they fit nice, but no engraving of grooves in barrel for sure at .452 I might try sizing them to .454 and see, I think my mould casts .455 In short, I am just trying to shoot what I have cast up, but the grease groove (single) on the ACP bullet might be a little deficient for BP. I am usually alone when shooting, but I felt it a bit unothadox to be tapping the bullet into the barrel with a small hammer before using the rod to seat.

Thanks again,
Okie out
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Old February 20, 2006, 07:55 PM   #4
taralon
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I usually shoot nothing but Pyrodex. It was all I could get for a while, and even after I tried some Goex and Swiss, I decided to stick with the Pyro. I could get *slightly* better groups with the real thing but the velocities that real black produced were much much lower. 1 inch 5 shot groups of the bench at 100 yards with real black vs. 1.25 inch groups at about 200 FPS higher velocity. The best load with my rifle with real black was ~45 grains, and with pyro the best groups came in at around 70ish... (Per my powder measure). Since I compete a bit with the rifle, and because those groups are better than anything I'm gonna get offhand with the rifle, and given that a faster projectile will wind drift less.... I've pretty much stuck with the Pyro.

Harder lead will need to be more oversize for you to get decent groups out of it. Pure lead will 'bump up' a lot more than most wheel weight mixes and will probably be much more accurate in an easier loading barrel. I used to shoot preengraved Conicals out of one of my guns which I had the barrel shortened a bit on. Taking the old bit of 'spare' barrel I could drive them through the 2 inch piece and they'd load with finger pressure in the actual gun.
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Old March 2, 2006, 02:43 PM   #5
okiefarmer
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So if I have this right, one does not want to force a groove upon seating a RB, but rather have the patch force a tight fit. A round ball flies truer than a scarred up ball, right. Then I don't want to cast .457 balls but rather .450 balls and use patch on balls. Hey, I'm still on a learning curve here.

TIA,
Okie out
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Old March 2, 2006, 03:08 PM   #6
Weird Guy
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True. Round bullets are usually undersized for the gun barrel diameter, and the patch makes up the difference.

You want to use .440 balls if your gun is a .45 caliber barrel. That means your pistol bullets would be too large to use, but that is because revolvers work differently. Revolvers shave off excess lead as they are rammed into the six chambers, leaving a ring of lead scrap behind. Muskets are the other way, being undersized and the patch is there to bulk it up.
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Old March 2, 2006, 04:55 PM   #7
mec
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the jukar .44s tend to use a patched ball of .440-.445"
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