Question concerning my once-fired 30-06 brass

Battler · May 6, 2001, 05:06 PM

(this is a rough repeat of a post lost last night).

I am new to (rifle case) reloading.

I have a new Rem 700 ADL 30-06. Fired it the first time some Winchester FACTORY Super-X 180 grain power-point.

I'm typing this from work so I can't remeasure the brass. However, the length of cases, the last two digits (I remember) ranged from xx88 to xx91 (max limit for 3006 is xx94 as per instructions with my micrometer).

There was no sign of pressure at the primers.

However, about .15 inches above the webbing, there is a 0.05 inch wide band in the brass.

I haven't seen this before in my other brass; but the only rifle brass I have around is milsurp fired from semiautomatic 308s.

The band in the brass feels like a ramp, rising as it heads toward the case mouth. It isn't extreme; but it's there, and full-length resizing (I did a couple) does not make it go away (makes it slightly more visible).

I felt around inside the case with an unfolded paperclip but felt nothing out of the ordinary.

Is this normal? This is once-fired bass. Is the headspace/chamber on my rifle suspect?

I plan on reloading these with 150 gr spitzers over a minimum charge of IMR 4350.

thanks,
Battler.

Archie · May 6, 2001, 05:34 PM

Your factory brass's outside diameter at the point in question is .4xxx" or so. The inside diameter of your factory rifle chamber is about .00xx" larger than the brass. Were it not, the loaded round would not chamber freely.
When fired, the brass expands until it runs into the chamber wall. (Actually it expands the chamber wall a bit, also.) Then it springs back ALMOST to it's original dimension. (The chamber springs back much closer than the brass, that's why the case is harder to withdraw.)

The web of the case, that is, the base area of the case, does not expand (as much) as the "hollow" part of the case. The area with the "ramp" on the outside should be where the web ends and the hollow begins.

Incipient (if I spelled that right) should be just above the beginning of the "hollow" area.

Normally, "full length" resizing dies resize the neck and about the top two thirds or so of the case. (That's my estimate, not anything from the loading companies.) To resize the base requires what the loading companies call "small base" dies.

Unless you can find a thining of the case with your paper clip, don't worry about it. If you are concerned, get a fine saw and cut one of the cases open so you can look.

You're probably confused enough now. I'll quit.

Battler · May 6, 2001, 05:44 PM

Does starting 0.15" above the start of the "hollow" area count?

thanks for the explanation, though, I feel a bit better and may try loading them soon.

(I WILL however look for signs of the true splits always).

Battler

Cheapo · May 7, 2001, 01:48 PM

What you're seeing is the beginning of the part of the case wall which was thin enough to expand out to be contained by the chamber wall.

Entirely normal. If you chop a case open, you'll see that the walls are tapering much thicker back where you see that chamber-contact region begin.

Don't bother with small-base resizing dies unless YOUR brass is reluctant to chamber in one of YOUR firearms after being truly full-length resized with YOUR dies. Everyone I know does perfectly well with standard dies (even shooting semiautos).

Southla1 · May 7, 2001, 09:52 PM

I run a lot of 06's through my Garand with regular RCBS sizing dies. Never did need (or use) small base dies.

yankytrash · May 8, 2001, 05:59 AM

I remember a bit of a quote from one of my books. It was an older book (I wish I could remember which one it was), but it still applies to modern standards.

It basically stated that all guns are different as chambering goes. One rifle may chamber a shell 7/8 of the length, another may chamber 3/4, and some may chamber so deep that only the lip of the base shows.

If you put a balloon in a small box and blew it up, the ballon would take the shape of the box.

The book was making a point on full-length sizing versus not. It stated that most bolt actions are going to like a bigger shell, ie one that is not full-length sized every time. Semis would like the shells FLed everytime for faster chambering and extraction.

Basically your 700 is just shaping the shell for the first time. If you keep them seperate from from your semi-auto 30-06's, you'll probably find that the gun is more accurate next time, because the shell is going to be chambered more snugly at the base. The accuracy, of course, depends on the load too, but it sounds like you're picking a winner.

Congrats on the 700, that'sa sweet gun.

May 6, 2001, 05:34 PM	#2
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Normal condition. Your factory brass's outside diameter at the point in question is .4xxx" or so. The inside diameter of your factory rifle chamber is about .00xx" larger than the brass. Were it not, the loaded round would not chamber freely. When fired, the brass expands until it runs into the chamber wall. (Actually it expands the chamber wall a bit, also.) Then it springs back ALMOST to it's original dimension. (The chamber springs back much closer than the brass, that's why the case is harder to withdraw.) The web of the case, that is, the base area of the case, does not expand (as much) as the "hollow" part of the case. The area with the "ramp" on the outside should be where the web ends and the hollow begins. Incipient (if I spelled that right) should be just above the beginning of the "hollow" area. Normally, "full length" resizing dies resize the neck and about the top two thirds or so of the case. (That's my estimate, not anything from the loading companies.) To resize the base requires what the loading companies call "small base" dies. Unless you can find a thining of the case with your paper clip, don't worry about it. If you are concerned, get a fine saw and cut one of the cases open so you can look. You're probably confused enough now. I'll quit. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

May 6, 2001, 05:06 PM	#1
Battler Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2000 Posts: 1,185	(this is a rough repeat of a post lost last night). I am new to (rifle case) reloading. I have a new Rem 700 ADL 30-06. Fired it the first time some Winchester FACTORY Super-X 180 grain power-point. I'm typing this from work so I can't remeasure the brass. However, the length of cases, the last two digits (I remember) ranged from xx88 to xx91 (max limit for 3006 is xx94 as per instructions with my micrometer). There was no sign of pressure at the primers. However, about .15 inches above the webbing, there is a 0.05 inch wide band in the brass. I haven't seen this before in my other brass; but the only rifle brass I have around is milsurp fired from semiautomatic 308s. The band in the brass feels like a ramp, rising as it heads toward the case mouth. It isn't extreme; but it's there, and full-length resizing (I did a couple) does not make it go away (makes it slightly more visible). I felt around inside the case with an unfolded paperclip but felt nothing out of the ordinary. Is this normal? This is once-fired bass. Is the headspace/chamber on my rifle suspect? I plan on reloading these with 150 gr spitzers over a minimum charge of IMR 4350. thanks, Battler.

May 6, 2001, 05:44 PM	#3
Battler Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2000 Posts: 1,185	Does starting 0.15" above the start of the "hollow" area count? thanks for the explanation, though, I feel a bit better and may try loading them soon. (I WILL however look for signs of the true splits always). Battler

May 7, 2001, 01:48 PM	#4
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	What you're seeing is the beginning of the part of the case wall which was thin enough to expand out to be contained by the chamber wall. Entirely normal. If you chop a case open, you'll see that the walls are tapering much thicker back where you see that chamber-contact region begin. Don't bother with small-base resizing dies unless YOUR brass is reluctant to chamber in one of YOUR firearms after being truly full-length resized with YOUR dies. Everyone I know does perfectly well with standard dies (even shooting semiautos).

May 7, 2001, 09:52 PM	#5
Southla1 Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Posts: 1,999	I run a lot of 06's through my Garand with regular RCBS sizing dies. Never did need (or use) small base dies.

May 8, 2001, 05:59 AM	#6
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,183	I remember a bit of a quote from one of my books. It was an older book (I wish I could remember which one it was), but it still applies to modern standards. It basically stated that all guns are different as chambering goes. One rifle may chamber a shell 7/8 of the length, another may chamber 3/4, and some may chamber so deep that only the lip of the base shows. If you put a balloon in a small box and blew it up, the ballon would take the shape of the box. The book was making a point on full-length sizing versus not. It stated that most bolt actions are going to like a bigger shell, ie one that is not full-length sized every time. Semis would like the shells FLed everytime for faster chambering and extraction. Basically your 700 is just shaping the shell for the first time. If you keep them seperate from from your semi-auto 30-06's, you'll probably find that the gun is more accurate next time, because the shell is going to be chambered more snugly at the base. The accuracy, of course, depends on the load too, but it sounds like you're picking a winner. Congrats on the 700, that'sa sweet gun.