Fair price? - Page 2

OutlawJoseyWales · August 31, 2011, 03:21 PM

Great fun, love the conversation and the "fight."

But, one problem.
That brass '51" Pietta-fantasy .44 handle is NOT as large as my 1860's.
While I'm not going to measure the frames, sorry too lazy, the grips(for lack of a better word) are closer or exactly the same size as all my .36 caliber Pietta's.

So, we need somebody with some time and some originals to end this fun.

But, the only ones here who can tell us the exact truth, is someone who will measure an original 1851, than measure a Pietta 1851 and tell us.
I don't have an original anything, so I'm out.

Only thing I know is that this hobby of mine, is certainly awesome fun.
Whoohoo. OJW

Hawg · August 31, 2011, 03:47 PM

OK, gonna stick my two cents in. The so called 1851 Navy .44 is a fantasy piece. It does have all the earmarks of a 51 including the smaller grip frame. It used the rebated cylinder and stepped frame of the 60 army. Another thing is a brass framed revolver was never marketed by Colt. A .44 brass frame was never marketed in the first place by anybody. The brass used back in the day was red brass or gun metal as it was called back then which is bronze with a high copper content. It would probably stand up to full power .36 loads unlike today's brass frames. That's probably why there were never any brass framed .44's made. They knew they wouldn't hold up.

DiCarnage · August 31, 2011, 03:47 PM

I'm seeing so many posts here that I agree with on both sides of the fence. I agree with Mykeal on his assertion that Pietta markets a gun that never existed as something entirely different, I can fully understand Threedog's Mustang analogy.
BUT... I once saw a Pinto Runabout with a Ford small-block V8 shoved into it with a blower sticking out of the hood, and a wheelie bar on the back. A Ford car with a Ford engine, but if some company began building those and marketing them as '72 Ford Pinto V8's as a historical recreation it wouldn't be... well, right.

Just as building a recreation of a Walther P1/P38 in .25 wouldn't be right. It just wouldn't be the thing that it's supposed to represent on a historical level.
I mean, why not go all out and call that gun a Dragoon, or build a snub-nosed version?

It would be one thing if you took a Colt Navy and bored it out to .44 yourself (because then it WOULD be the thing it's labeled as), but factory marketing such a thing is simply teaching history wrong.

zullo74 · August 31, 2011, 03:50 PM

The grip on our 'fantasy' gun is smaller than the Pietta 1860, but IS the same grip as used on the Pietta 1851. The Pietta grip is NOT the same exact shape as the original Colt 1851 grip, but is similar in length.

It is not wrong to produce a 'fantasy' gun. The manufacturers make what they think will sell. They are not in business to please the likes of one particular group of old curmudgeons!

Michael Ruggiero · August 31, 2011, 04:05 PM

Ok, with all this said, Any suggestions for listing this pistol for sale without starting up this conversation/debate all over again?

zullo74 · August 31, 2011, 04:11 PM

See post #2 and just list it as a Traditions 1851 Navy Style .44 cal. brass frame revolver. Decide if the holster goes with it or not and a separate price for it.

Hawg · August 31, 2011, 04:46 PM

Cabela's has them on sale for 139.99

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104503680

zullo74 · August 31, 2011, 05:15 PM

So with the shipping that comes to $156.47 from Cabelas.

Hawg · August 31, 2011, 05:27 PM

Depending on where it's shipped to.

zullo74 · August 31, 2011, 05:29 PM

Unless you picked up yourself, it is going to cost more than $139.99.

mykeal · August 31, 2011, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by threedogdad

I think we have beaten this poor dead horse [Colt? ] enough.

It's been good talking to you/debating with you/whatever it was. See you on the range sometime.

Amen.

arcticap · August 31, 2011, 06:25 PM

As long as it's named Pietta then it's not a Colt or an 1851.
But it is a Pietta 1851 Colt, their version of it anyway.
Even Colt had Uberti help them to make guns which Colt recognizes as being real Colts, and we don't call them Uberti's.
Aren't they Colts?
No matter what they are, the Colt name says so.
Pietta is the name and an 1851 Colt .44 is their game!
It's just like their nickel plated guns that have brass frames underneath.
That's not nickel plated, that's Pietta nickel.
That's the same kind of showmanship that Sam Colt was also known for!

OutlawJoseyWales · August 31, 2011, 09:47 PM

Brassers on Gunbroker sell for under $150, but start at $75-100 if you want to get any attention. But with a holster it'll be a little more. I wouldn't buy a brasser for that though, but I don't like them. But, especially with the Cabela new ones at the price they are now, you are not going to do much better.
But, you have a holster to sweetin' the pot a little. Might get someone's attention. I frankly don't get the prices some nuts put their old brass revolvers at on there. Some are silly about it, some try to even hide the fact they're brass with tricky pictures. But, buyer beware.

A fair price for a steel '51 is in the $150 range, but will fetch a little more when it's all said and done-if it's a Pietta.

Frankly though, if you want an idea of price just visit Gunbroker yourself for a while and you'll see the price things are going for. It's not hard.
OJW

Michael Ruggiero · September 1, 2011, 03:38 PM

Thanks once again for all the help and advice guys!

maillemaker · September 2, 2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Uh, no. Tanker6 provided a much better description.

Well, sure, if you want to take a paragraph to describe it. I'm sure there are a whole list of historical inaccuracies about the firearm that we could list.

But the gun basically looks like an 1851 Navy, and Pietta obviously thinks so, too, since that is what they call it. It looks far more like an 1851 Navy than an 1860 Army, so I certainly would not call it an army model simply because it is .44 caliber.

You guys can call it what you want. I call it an 1851 Navy in .44 caliber. If people are interested in further ahistorical details beyond that, I oblige them.

Steve

American Eagle · September 2, 2011, 10:10 AM

How about everyone just agrees to disagree and we can all move on.

Tanker6 · September 2, 2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

Quote:
Uh, no. Tanker6 provided a much better description.

Well, sure, if you want to take a paragraph to describe it.

I take offense, sir. My description was far more than a measly paragraph.

....it's Friday and I get to shoot tomorrow....I guess I'm in a good mood, so oblige me....

Michael Ruggiero · September 2, 2011, 12:10 PM

"All's well that ends well" To my surprise the pistol found a buyer. He's happy, I'm happy. Now let's go shooting!!.

August 31, 2011, 03:47 PM	#28
DiCarnage Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2010 Location: Southern Oregon. Posts: 105	Wow, um... I'm seeing so many posts here that I agree with on both sides of the fence. I agree with Mykeal on his assertion that Pietta markets a gun that never existed as something entirely different, I can fully understand Threedog's Mustang analogy. BUT... I once saw a Pinto Runabout with a Ford small-block V8 shoved into it with a blower sticking out of the hood, and a wheelie bar on the back. A Ford car with a Ford engine, but if some company began building those and marketing them as '72 Ford Pinto V8's as a historical recreation it wouldn't be... well, right. Just as building a recreation of a Walther P1/P38 in .25 wouldn't be right. It just wouldn't be the thing that it's supposed to represent on a historical level. I mean, why not go all out and call that gun a Dragoon, or build a snub-nosed version? It would be one thing if you took a Colt Navy and bored it out to .44 yourself (because then it WOULD be the thing it's labeled as), but factory marketing such a thing is simply teaching history wrong.

August 31, 2011, 04:05 PM	#30
Michael Ruggiero Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: Eagleville, TN Posts: 50	44 cal Ok, with all this said, Any suggestions for listing this pistol for sale without starting up this conversation/debate all over again?

August 31, 2011, 06:25 PM	#37
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	As long as it's named Pietta then it's not a Colt or an 1851. But it is a Pietta 1851 Colt, their version of it anyway. Even Colt had Uberti help them to make guns which Colt recognizes as being real Colts, and we don't call them Uberti's. Aren't they Colts? No matter what they are, the Colt name says so. Pietta is the name and an 1851 Colt .44 is their game! It's just like their nickel plated guns that have brass frames underneath. That's not nickel plated, that's Pietta nickel. That's the same kind of showmanship that Sam Colt was also known for! Last edited by arcticap; August 31, 2011 at 06:31 PM.

September 1, 2011, 03:38 PM	#39
Michael Ruggiero Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: Eagleville, TN Posts: 50	Navy Colt Thanks once again for all the help and advice guys!

September 2, 2011, 10:10 AM	#41
American Eagle Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2009 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 265	How about everyone just agrees to disagree and we can all move on. __________________ I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. ----THOMAS JEFFERSON

August 31, 2011, 03:21 PM	#26
OutlawJoseyWales Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 237	Great fun, love the conversation and the "fight." But, one problem. That brass '51" Pietta-fantasy .44 handle is NOT as large as my 1860's. While I'm not going to measure the frames, sorry too lazy, the grips(for lack of a better word) are closer or exactly the same size as all my .36 caliber Pietta's. So, we need somebody with some time and some originals to end this fun. But, the only ones here who can tell us the exact truth, is someone who will measure an original 1851, than measure a Pietta 1851 and tell us. I don't have an original anything, so I'm out. Only thing I know is that this hobby of mine, is certainly awesome fun. Whoohoo. OJW

August 31, 2011, 03:47 PM	#27
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	OK, gonna stick my two cents in. The so called 1851 Navy .44 is a fantasy piece. It does have all the earmarks of a 51 including the smaller grip frame. It used the rebated cylinder and stepped frame of the 60 army. Another thing is a brass framed revolver was never marketed by Colt. A .44 brass frame was never marketed in the first place by anybody. The brass used back in the day was red brass or gun metal as it was called back then which is bronze with a high copper content. It would probably stand up to full power .36 loads unlike today's brass frames. That's probably why there were never any brass framed .44's made. They knew they wouldn't hold up.

August 31, 2011, 03:50 PM	#29
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	The grip on our 'fantasy' gun is smaller than the Pietta 1860, but IS the same grip as used on the Pietta 1851. The Pietta grip is NOT the same exact shape as the original Colt 1851 grip, but is similar in length. It is not wrong to produce a 'fantasy' gun. The manufacturers make what they think will sell. They are not in business to please the likes of one particular group of old curmudgeons!

August 31, 2011, 04:11 PM	#31
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	See post #2 and just list it as a Traditions 1851 Navy Style .44 cal. brass frame revolver. Decide if the holster goes with it or not and a separate price for it.

August 31, 2011, 04:46 PM	#32
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Cabela's has them on sale for 139.99 http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104503680

August 31, 2011, 05:15 PM	#33
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	So with the shipping that comes to $156.47 from Cabelas.

August 31, 2011, 05:27 PM	#34
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Depending on where it's shipped to.

August 31, 2011, 05:29 PM	#35
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	Unless you picked up yourself, it is going to cost more than $139.99.

August 31, 2011, 09:47 PM	#38
OutlawJoseyWales Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 237	Brassers on Gunbroker sell for under $150, but start at $75-100 if you want to get any attention. But with a holster it'll be a little more. I wouldn't buy a brasser for that though, but I don't like them. But, especially with the Cabela new ones at the price they are now, you are not going to do much better. But, you have a holster to sweetin' the pot a little. Might get someone's attention. I frankly don't get the prices some nuts put their old brass revolvers at on there. Some are silly about it, some try to even hide the fact they're brass with tricky pictures. But, buyer beware. A fair price for a steel '51 is in the $150 range, but will fetch a little more when it's all said and done-if it's a Pietta. Frankly though, if you want an idea of price just visit Gunbroker yourself for a while and you'll see the price things are going for. It's not hard. OJW

September 2, 2011, 12:10 PM	#43
Michael Ruggiero Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: Eagleville, TN Posts: 50	Navy Colt "All's well that ends well" To my surprise the pistol found a buyer. He's happy, I'm happy. Now let's go shooting!!.