Making Practice Practical

45Gunner · February 15, 2010, 02:16 PM

I was at the Range today with one of my shooting buddies who is a County Detective. We always challenge each other with one scenario or other. Today we came up with something that would be good practice for everyone that uses a gun for SD/HD.

We placed different sized targets 7 and 10 yards downrange, respectively one in each of two adjacent lanes. Assume that these targets are BG's that broke into your house and are armed, or whatever else you care to dream up. You are holding them at bay with your gun. One makes a move for his gun, which of course, is not the one that you are holding the gun on.

You move your gun off the BG you have the gun on, double tap into the other target, and now the original guy goes for his gun so you have to go back to the original target, who already has a gun on the draw, making speed critical, and double tap into it.

We both agreed that the tendency was to swing past the target before getting target acquisition which wasted critical time. We worked at keeping our eyes constantly aligned with the sights. What made it even more challenging for us was he was using a baby Glock .40SW and I was using a Kimber Ultra CDP II .45ACP. I am anxious to try this with with a gun that has a 5" barrel to see if target acquisition can be made with less movement.

I think most of you would find this stimulating and fun. We blew thru a lot of rounds before we realized we were getting deep in expended brass.

BlueTrain · February 15, 2010, 03:47 PM

Good idea but good luck finding a place to do this.

This is hardly a new concept but it isn't that old, either, although I think it goes back before WWII. The idea has various names and it really needs a specialized range to make the most of the idea.

I imagine that some would immediately say that what you really need here is some professional training or help, only no two professional trainers are likely to have the same idea of the worthiness of the idea or how best to proceed. Pretty much you're left to your own devices but that's hardly much of an obstacle. I think the real trick is keeping it practical (easier said than done) and not turning it into something competitive with points and scoring. Naturally there has to be some form of evaluation but probably it is best limited to a pass-fail basis.

Don't shoot yourself.

TheNewGuy · February 15, 2010, 05:37 PM

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you, at the first sign of aggressive action by bad guy #2, put one in bad guy #1, since he's all lined up and ready to go, slow him down and rattle bad guy #2's nerves, then move and tap-tap on bad guy #2 and then back to bad guy #1 and proceed as necessary?

I mean, assuming these really are bona fide armed bad guys in your house trying to kill you.

45Gunner · February 15, 2010, 07:44 PM

First, putting down a BG without a valid reason is homicide. Second, this is practice to train yourself to quickly move from one target to a second. If I were shooting a movie, it would look great to put down one bad guy to get the other guy's attention.

We practiced this at a standard public indoor shooting range. We were on one end and there was one other shooter at the other end. We took turns doing this from our respective lane positions. As far as anyone else was concerned, we were just two shooters watching each other shoot. It is not a big deal and can be done at any range that allows double tap shooting. (Some ranges prohibit rapid fire.)

It makes no difference what it is called, it is still practice. The only challenge is the challenge to better your own skills...no one scores, unless of course that's what you are in to. I posted this as a suggestion for something different to do other than shooting at the same old stationary target. Please don't shoot me or tear me to shreds.

OldShooter · February 15, 2010, 08:00 PM

Shooting across lanes, how do you ensure that your rounds go into the bullet trap and not the side wall?

majohnson · February 15, 2010, 09:30 PM

It would be nice if the average shooter would have a place practice. Living in Northern Colorado, none of the ranges will permit anything but a single target and no rapid fire.

sakeneko · February 15, 2010, 09:41 PM

We've got exactly two ranges in Reno, Nevada -- one the outdoor county range a half hour north of the city, one a new indoor range. The county range doesn't allow rapid fire or most of what I need to do to practice for self defense. The indoor range is even more restrictive.

Fortunately we *do* have a lot of open public land in this area, much of it managed by the BLM. It's legal to shoot on this land as long as you are at least a mile from the nearest occupied dwelling, and my husband and I mostly practice shooting on public land and bring our own targets, etc. (Actually, I think the rules are a mile for rifle shooting, and 1000 ft for shotgun or handgun, but we prefer to make things simple and just keep at least a mile away from anybody's home.)

I know that this won't work for people who live in parts of the country where there isn't a great deal of open public land, but if you live in the U.S. west or southwest, you should be able to find a good spot where you can practice quick draws, rapid fire, and other stuff that formal shooting ranges (for good reason) don't allow.

Slopemeno · February 15, 2010, 09:52 PM

Find your local USPSA league. You'll learn more in your first year of competition than you can imagine.

KenpoTex · February 15, 2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

We both agreed that the tendency was to swing past the target before getting target acquisition which wasted critical time. We worked at keeping our eyes constantly aligned with the sights. What made it even more challenging for us was he was using a baby Glock .40SW and I was using a Kimber Ultra CDP II .45ACP. I am anxious to try this with with a gun that has a 5" barrel to see if target acquisition can be made with less movement.

A consideration: Instead of keeping your eyes aligned with the sights and then swinging, you might try "snapping" your eyes to the next target and then moving the gun. This method seems to be easier/more effective for some without an appreciable difference in speed.

Viper225 · February 19, 2010, 09:51 PM

It would seem the best solution would be more practice, and see what works best.
I am spoiled.

I have never had to put up with restrictive range use, like is discussed above.
We have 2 Short Ranges (Out to 100 yards) and a Long Range 100 thru 800 yards for Club Member use. We have a Shoot House with multiple Rooms and Doors at our disposal.
We leave the Silhouette Stands up for anyone (Club Members) to use who brings their own targets.
The Simulators and Target Stands stay on the range, so anyone can set up a stage and shoot it.
Most folks who do this kind of shooting just show up monthly for a match, and let Bryan, Robert, Andrew and myself set it all up for them.

February 15, 2010, 07:44 PM	#4
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	First, putting down a BG without a valid reason is homicide. Second, this is practice to train yourself to quickly move from one target to a second. If I were shooting a movie, it would look great to put down one bad guy to get the other guy's attention. We practiced this at a standard public indoor shooting range. We were on one end and there was one other shooter at the other end. We took turns doing this from our respective lane positions. As far as anyone else was concerned, we were just two shooters watching each other shoot. It is not a big deal and can be done at any range that allows double tap shooting. (Some ranges prohibit rapid fire.) It makes no difference what it is called, it is still practice. The only challenge is the challenge to better your own skills...no one scores, unless of course that's what you are in to. I posted this as a suggestion for something different to do other than shooting at the same old stationary target. Please don't shoot me or tear me to shreds. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member Last edited by 45Gunner; February 15, 2010 at 07:51 PM.

February 15, 2010, 09:30 PM	#6
majohnson Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 18	Practical Practice It would be nice if the average shooter would have a place practice. Living in Northern Colorado, none of the ranges will permit anything but a single target and no rapid fire.

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February 15, 2010, 02:16 PM	#1
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Making Practice Practical I was at the Range today with one of my shooting buddies who is a County Detective. We always challenge each other with one scenario or other. Today we came up with something that would be good practice for everyone that uses a gun for SD/HD. We placed different sized targets 7 and 10 yards downrange, respectively one in each of two adjacent lanes. Assume that these targets are BG's that broke into your house and are armed, or whatever else you care to dream up. You are holding them at bay with your gun. One makes a move for his gun, which of course, is not the one that you are holding the gun on. You move your gun off the BG you have the gun on, double tap into the other target, and now the original guy goes for his gun so you have to go back to the original target, who already has a gun on the draw, making speed critical, and double tap into it. We both agreed that the tendency was to swing past the target before getting target acquisition which wasted critical time. We worked at keeping our eyes constantly aligned with the sights. What made it even more challenging for us was he was using a baby Glock .40SW and I was using a Kimber Ultra CDP II .45ACP. I am anxious to try this with with a gun that has a 5" barrel to see if target acquisition can be made with less movement. I think most of you would find this stimulating and fun. We blew thru a lot of rounds before we realized we were getting deep in expended brass. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

February 15, 2010, 03:47 PM	#2
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Good idea but good luck finding a place to do this. This is hardly a new concept but it isn't that old, either, although I think it goes back before WWII. The idea has various names and it really needs a specialized range to make the most of the idea. I imagine that some would immediately say that what you really need here is some professional training or help, only no two professional trainers are likely to have the same idea of the worthiness of the idea or how best to proceed. Pretty much you're left to your own devices but that's hardly much of an obstacle. I think the real trick is keeping it practical (easier said than done) and not turning it into something competitive with points and scoring. Naturally there has to be some form of evaluation but probably it is best limited to a pass-fail basis. Don't shoot yourself. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

February 15, 2010, 05:37 PM	#3
TheNewGuy Junior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Posts: 11	Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you, at the first sign of aggressive action by bad guy #2, put one in bad guy #1, since he's all lined up and ready to go, slow him down and rattle bad guy #2's nerves, then move and tap-tap on bad guy #2 and then back to bad guy #1 and proceed as necessary? I mean, assuming these really are bona fide armed bad guys in your house trying to kill you.

February 15, 2010, 08:00 PM	#5
OldShooter Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 846	Shooting across lanes, how do you ensure that your rounds go into the bullet trap and not the side wall?

February 15, 2010, 09:41 PM	#7
sakeneko Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 644	We've got exactly two ranges in Reno, Nevada -- one the outdoor county range a half hour north of the city, one a new indoor range. The county range doesn't allow rapid fire or most of what I need to do to practice for self defense. The indoor range is even more restrictive. Fortunately we do have a lot of open public land in this area, much of it managed by the BLM. It's legal to shoot on this land as long as you are at least a mile from the nearest occupied dwelling, and my husband and I mostly practice shooting on public land and bring our own targets, etc. (Actually, I think the rules are a mile for rifle shooting, and 1000 ft for shotgun or handgun, but we prefer to make things simple and just keep at least a mile away from anybody's home.) I know that this won't work for people who live in parts of the country where there isn't a great deal of open public land, but if you live in the U.S. west or southwest, you should be able to find a good spot where you can practice quick draws, rapid fire, and other stuff that formal shooting ranges (for good reason) don't allow.

February 15, 2010, 09:52 PM	#8
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	Find your local USPSA league. You'll learn more in your first year of competition than you can imagine.

February 19, 2010, 09:51 PM	#10
Viper225 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2009 Location: SC Missouri Posts: 663	It would seem the best solution would be more practice, and see what works best. I am spoiled. I have never had to put up with restrictive range use, like is discussed above. We have 2 Short Ranges (Out to 100 yards) and a Long Range 100 thru 800 yards for Club Member use. We have a Shoot House with multiple Rooms and Doors at our disposal. We leave the Silhouette Stands up for anyone (Club Members) to use who brings their own targets. The Simulators and Target Stands stay on the range, so anyone can set up a stage and shoot it. Most folks who do this kind of shooting just show up monthly for a match, and let Bryan, Robert, Andrew and myself set it all up for them.