Open Carry Proposal

[Suker-4-Sauer]

I stumbled upon this article about open carry in the great state of Texas........... im intereseted to hear what yall have to say about this guys idea....http://smokeonthewater.typepad.com/s...pen_carry.html

[Al Norris]

May of 2007? A little dated, I should think.

BTAIM, one of the main reasons that the courts have upheld the various concealed carry laws is because of the amount of precedence there is that upholds State restrictions on concealed carry in the first place.

And why is that, you might ask? Because in those cases that upheld the restrictions, open carry was not only the norm, it could not be legislated against. See Nunn v. Georgia (for just one example).

Within the next 5 years, I see validation of the CCW laws, but only in the context that open carry is lawful. One simply cannot admit that the state can charge for the exercise of a right, if the right is not fully addressable, without charge, by some other means. If you read the dicta in Heller very carefully, Justice Scalia points this all out.

As stated in another case (In re Brickey 8 Idaho 597 (1902)):

While it is, undoubtedly, within the power of the legislature to prohibit [Regulate] the carrying of concealed deadly weapons, and such regulation is a proper exercise of police power, yet the legislature does not possess the power to prohibit the carrying of firearms, as the right to do so is guaranteed to the citizen both by our federal and state constitutions.

[Tom Servo]

One simply cannot admit that the state can charge for the exercise of a right, if the right is not fully addressable, without charge, by some other means. If you read the dicta in Heller very carefully, Justice Scalia points this all out.

That argument is not without precedent, and it remains to be seen whether a licensing scheme amounting to a tax on the RKBA is constitutional.

[dlb435]

Open carry is already legal in most states. Try it in town and you could be arrested for disturbing the peace. It's one of those things that may be legal but your common sense tells you not to do.
FYI - After Katrina I was in town with a friend as we checked his flooded house. We did open carry. The cops came by and asked us to put our weapons away. No problem, we asked the cops to stay close by until we finished. We put the guns in the car and the cops hung around until we finished. Everyone was happy.

[silvercorvette]

I open carried for 20 years and I have no desire to do so now that I am retired.

I personally am against doing it personally but I will support those that want to do it.

[Suker-4-Sauer]

different strokes different folks i suppose. I dont oppose open carry either, its just not something that i want to do. it seems to me that i can work in your favor and against it at the same time. ex #1: BG sees that you are carrying and moves on to an easier target. ex#2: BG sees that you are carrying and shoots you immediatley. i dont like those odds!

[ncpatriot]

Interesting that states use various restrictions against concealed carry, but oftn require long guns be stored in trunk, as concealed as it gets. Of course, I understand the access issue too, but if I can carry my handgun, why do I have to lock away my long gun? The states largely went wild when they should have simply respected the Constitution. What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by ncpatriot

What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?

The "not" part, apparently.

[HoraceHogsnort]

Suker-4-Saur wrote: "BG sees that you are carrying and shoots you immediatley. i dont like those odds!"

Can you cite an example of where this has happened?

[Al Norris]

Originally Posted by HoraceHogsnort

Can you cite an example of where this has happened?

The opposition to open carry have always claimed such things, but have never ever backed-up such claims with actual cites or sources.

[bikerbill]

This issue comes up from time to time in Texas and, with the heavy swing to R in the recent legislative elections, it's going to come up again ... I'd love to have it approved, but I don't think I'd take advantage of it ... prefer that when I need to draw, it's a surprise to the BG ...

[BILLtheDJguy]

Florida is atempting to repeal their version of the Open Carry Ban , as well, and Governor-elect Rick Scott, said he will sign it, when it comes through...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

In TX, remember you have to fight the business interests who have a heavy hand on so-called pro-gun folks in the legislature. They sunk the campus carry and parking lot bills because of libability concerns.

So don't trust pro-gun folks in the leadership. Hope this isn't political but that's the game. Conservative talk can be subverted by so called conservative business interests.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Concealed carry guys should support open carry, if for no other reason, because at least it would allow for carry methods where the gun could be potentially, but not entirely intentionally, visible without legal problems. Like, I want to carry OWB but my shirt my move and expose the gun.

More importantly though, we should all support open carry because there's no reason why it SHOULDN'T be legal, even if we don't want to do it. We don't want to oppose something for which we have no personal agenda, lest the same happen to us when the shoe is on the other foot.

Support RKBA or don't. Don't pick and choose on issues that amount to peanuts.

[BILLtheDJguy]

I agree with PK....We should definitely support this, in any situation.
The right should be available as mandated by the constitution. If I want to strap my Desert Eagle on and go jogging, that is my right...I can't imagine a BG, being anything but concerned about "tee-ing" ME off. They are opportunistic and prey on the weak, not the heavily armed.

I think it should be mandatory, to carry in the open. The crooks would crap themselves in Florida anyway, if they knew how many people actually pack heat.

It might just be cause for a few to decide to get a real job...

[MLeake]

... offhand, I can't cite a case where a BG has preemptively shot an open-carry civilian.

OTOH, I've seen a few news articles involving cops who've unsuspectingly walked in on crimes in progress, and immediately been shot before they realized what was happening.

One would think the dynamic would be similar - that guy is a threat, shoot now. So I don't argue when people theorize that it could happen, as I tend to agree that it's possible.

I support the right of others to open carry, but I only do it in outdoor activity settings (IE hiking, hunting in the back country). But that should be a personal decision, not a legal dictate.

[Al Norris]

Yes, I've read of a few of those cases. In each of them, there is one thing in common: The police are in uniform.

Considering that most people I've encountered don't even see my sidearm, I tend to think that the uniform stands out.... Like a target.

[CapeCodShooter]

"if I can carry my handgun, why do I have to lock away my long gun [in my car]?

It's purpose supposedly was to prevent hunting from a vehicle, but it should have been left at that. Most state laws and regs already prohibit hunting from a car or shooting from a car on any roadway.

Open carry should be a choice that we all have.

[riggins_83]

I believe open carry should be allowed.. but I still choose not to unless in the woods with my 44 mag. I don't want to attract attention, want to blend in!

[TexasFats]

As a Texas resident, I am less concerned with passage of an open carry law in Texas that I am with a law legalizing CHL holders to carry inside the buildings of a college campus. Currently, CHL holders can carry anywhere on campus except in a "building or portion thereof." Then, it becomes a Third-Degree Felony with a penalty of 2 to 10 years in prison and up to a $10,000 fine.

As a faculty member at a private college, I want to be able to carry on campus for my protection and the protection of my students. The issue is not only the mass shooting type of incident, but also ordinary street crime as well.

Second on my wish list is a law that forbids employers from firing employees for having a legally owned firearm in their vehicle.

Open carry comes after that. I want all three to happen, but in the order listed.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I totally agree and the TSRA has been pretty clear that parking carry and campus carry has been opposed by colleges and business. The latter bought off legislators.

Even if a bill passes on colleges, it probably won't affect private schools although that has been suggested.

The reason is that such law would break the private property argument that your property allows you to ban.

We have been through that a zillion times on TFL.

I've been against businesses having the ability to ban if they are open to the public. Others disagree. The arguments have been made in numerous threads.

Don't hold your breathe for campus carry and parking lot easements.

The left and economic right are against it for ideology and perceived liability issues.

[ncpatriot]

I think the best situation is that those who want to OC may freely do so. Those who want to CC may freely do so. Those who commit violent crimes against fellow citizens lose the right, either permanently or for a specified time. Every state should have a generous castle doctrine law, covering one's own premises and any place he goes that he has a legal right to be. Anyone seeking to prosecute a person for shooting an intruder would have a tremendous burden of proof to show that person was not a criminal intruder. No business should be able to ban weapons in personal vehicles.