Pistol not going into Battery with cast bullets

[Machineguntony]

Some assistance, gentlemen.

I just got back from the range, and shot some cast bullet rounds. The pistols would not go into battery with the cast bullets. I would have to tap the back of the pistol with the back of my fist to complete the battery. Also, the round would be stuck in the chamber, and I would have no choice but rap/tap the gun to force it into battery. The slide would be stuck, so I could not pull back the slide. Once in battery, the round shot fine.

One round was stuck so hard that no matter how hard i rapped/tapped the slide, it would not go forward, so I had to stick a cleaning rod into the barrel and hammer back the round to release the slide. I did this very carefully, with no fingers in line with the barrel, in case the round went off.

I did not have this problem with plated or jacketed bullets.

Here is some info on the guns and loads.

I was shooting a Sig 226 MK23, 9mm. Same problem. Cast bullet rounds would be stuck, as described above, but the plated bullets had no problem. I was using Dardas cast bullets, round nose. The non problematic plated bullets were Berry's bullets, 124 grain.

I loaded the 9mm in a Dillon super 1050.

I measured the OAL of both finished rounds (the plated and the cast), and they both had the same OAL. The plated rounds didn't appear to have any shaved lead exposed. For the life of me, I can't figure out why the cast rounds are stuck and won't allow the gun to go into battery.

I also had the same problem with .40S&W cast loads. I loaded the .40 on a Dillon 650. I was shooting the .40 out of a HK P2000 compact. Again, no problems with plated bullets. This time, I was using Missouri Bullet Company bullets.

I had the same issue/problem with my .45 ACP load. I shot the .45 out of an HK 45C Tactical. I loaded the rounds on a Dillon super 1050 (I have four 1050s, one dedicated to 9mm, .223, .45, and .308, and so it can't be the conversion, as I do not convert between calibers). Loading procedure on cast and plated exactly the same, except the only difference is that on the cast bullets, i do not use the Mr. bulletfeeder, as I hand drop each cast projectile. On the plated bullets, i use the Mr. Bullet feeders.

Each completed round, cast or plated, has the same OAL and same diameter. For the life of me, I can't figure out whats going on.

Please give some input. Thanks.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

You should always do a plunk test to insure reliable feeding with a dummy round before loading any test rounds.

This will insure OAL/crimp etc. are all in order. If you use the barrel drop the dummy test bullet in the chamber and make sire it spins easily without drag or sticking and that it falls out of the barrel.

What bullet type, weight, OAL, etc. were you using? do you have a picture of the round?

[LE-28]

It sounds to me like your bullets may be seated crooked or your cases aren't completely resized.

Look in the seating die at the profile that is pushing the bullet into the case. Does it match the profile of the bullet your using.

Also, is the sizing die set down low enough to touch the shell plate. If it isn't and your cases are bulged they could be hanging up at the base of the case.

Take a sharpie marker and cover the outside of the one of the cases that won't chamber. Shove it in the chamber then knock it back out and see where the case is tight. That will tell you more than anything else you could do.

Also like wreck-n-crew said do the plunk test and make sure that it's the case and not the bullet sticking in rifling from being loaded to long.

Some chambers have a shorter barrel leade than others.

Personally I've had more problems with my sizing die not fully resizing the case bulges than anything else. The sizing die must be a few thousandths from touching the shell plate while it's under load.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

What bullet type, weight, OAL, etc. were you using? do you have a picture of the round?

Missed that the first read through.

[ghbucky01]

Max size gauge at the bench will save a lot of headache, as I so recently learned

[GP100man]

2 possibilitys , bullets too phat ,or the bullet is hitting the riflin.

Where are the rounds scratched at case or bullet ???

Taper crimped ??

I don`t load for the 9 but do for the 380 & the 380 took a bit of trial testing loading cast in it .

[Machineguntony]

I will do the drop test and see which of the four pics it looks like.

I'll take some pics and upload them soon.

Thanks, guys.

[Gadawg88]

Sounds like the bullet hitting the rifling as GP100 man says. Perhaps the bullets have different profiles. I didn't see in your post if the Berry bullets were also round nose. Even if they are, the profile could be just different enough to make a difference if you are at max length.

[chris in va]

Cast bullets typically don't follow the 'normal' ogive protocol and tend to be 'fat' further up the profile.

You need two things, seat them deeper and (arguably) use a factory crimp die.

[Machineguntony]

Can a moderator please turn these URLs into pics please? I am trying everything possible, and I can't get the images to display. Thanks.

The guns I am using. All have the same problem.

http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/kl...tml?sort=3&o=9

HK P 2000

http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/kl...tml?sort=3&o=8

HK 45CT

http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/kl...tml?sort=3&o=7

Sig 226

Notice both rounds have the same OAL.

http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/kl...tml?sort=3&o=6

http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/kl...tml?sort=3&o=5


Notice on drop test, the cast round sits higher, despite the same OAL. The plated round is below flush.

http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/kl...tml?sort=3&o=3

http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/kl...tml?sort=3&o=0

This is the gun in less than full battery. I didn't let it go all the way in, as this is only a demo. I didn't want the round actually stuck.

http://s1063.photobucket.com/user/kl...tml?sort=3&o=1

Any thoughts on what is wrong? I am lost.

Oh one more thing. Yes, the cast rounds are 'sticky' in the chamber, when dropped in chamber for the test.

[dickttx]

As to OAL and crimp, the only thing that counts is whether they work in YOUR gun when you do the plunk test.
They must go completely in when dropped and fall completely free on their own.

[bugs1961]

Like has been said, the shape of the bullet is causing it to contact the lands, preventing the slide from going into battery. Seat the bullet deeper by adjusting the seating die down a little at a time until the round drops into and falls out of the barrel. This is your new max OAL for your chamber and bullet. Write this down for future reference.

Also make sure the seating die removes all of the belling and, preferably, adds a .001 to .002" crimp.

The round should now freely drop into the chamber and fall out by it's own weight when turned upside down.

[g.willikers]

Another vote for seating the cast bullets a little deeper.
The shoulder on the bullets can act like an extension of the case.
And be sure to crimp correctly, as has been suggested.
Remove the bell plus a little more.

[Gadawg88]

Be aware seating the bullet deeper will increase pressure. Don't know what your load is or how much deeper you will need to seat the lead bullet, but you may want to reevaluate your charge.

[Machineguntony]

Thanks, gentlemen. I am going to reduce the charge by .2 grains and seat deeper.

[Idaho Spud]

Once had a Smith 659 that I had to seat cast boolits til finally the ogive disappeared into the case. That gun had a tight chamber and no amount of tweeking (sizing smaller, taper crimping more, etc.) helped. Had to give up and shoot jacketed only in that gun. Finally got rid of it, I'm a pb man. If they don't shoot cast, I don't want 'em.

[Machineguntony]

Idaho, I am thinking these guns just don't shoot cast.

I read your post and got up and made a couple of rounds using cast bullets. I took everyone's advice and seated deeper. Round is still sticky and not seating in the chamber flush. I then seated a cast bullet so deep that it looks unsafe. And it's still sticky and has the same battery issue. The round doesn't sit flush in the chamber drop test. What the hell?

I've measured the sides of the cases. There is no bulging or belling after the crimp, whatsoever, and the case is straight. The round looks completely fine. The crimping is fine. Tomorrow, I will try over crimping, and see what happens.

Maybe these guns just don't shoot cast.

Uggggg.

[chris in va]

They shoot cast just fine. You need a factory crimp die. It 'squeezes' the case down to SAAMI chamber specs and irons out any odd bulges or shapes. Trust me on this, thousands and thousands reloaded.

BTW please post a pic of your round so we can have a visual to work with.

I noticed you are using a truncated cone design. Those need to be seated so the bullet shoulder is right even with the case mouth.

[Idaho Spud]

Don't know what to say except measure the OD of a loaded round (at case mouth) of each caliber and see if they're within specs. With a real mike, if you can. Like I said, this 659 I had is the only gun I've never been able to "make" use cast boolits. I cast boolits for 2- 380s, coupla nines, 2 -1911's, an XDs45 , 2-40's, plus several revolvers, so cast boolits can work, just takes a little more work with some guns.

Having two that don't would make me cry, though. Seating too deep in 40's can be hazardous to your health without a requisite reduction in powder charge. 9 mm, too, for that matter. Be careful. Try a little more taper crimp, but don't over-do it. That could cause head space issues, among other things. Good luck. Goin' to bed.

[Machineguntony]

Chris,

I posted some pics above, in the links.

I couldn't figure put how to get the images to show, but I put up the links.

[chris in va]

Ok. So if you take the barrel out and force a round fully seated, take it out and find the shiny spots either on the case or bullet. That will tell you where it's jamming up.

I also noticed your OAL from the caliper. I can't tell but assuming that is a 40S&W. My Lyman manual shows an OAL at 1.12 or less with most normal bullets so it appears to be too long.

Ok I can see the problem. See that exposed part of the bullet where the ogive (slope) meets? It needs to be flush with the case mouth. That's why it is sticking.

Here's an example, 45 and 9mm.

[LE-28]

Are you seating and crimping the lead bullets in one step? If you are and aren't flaring enough you could be pushing lead ahead of the rim of the case. This can drive you nuts because it's really hard to see.

It messes with the headspacing and the round won't go completely into battery. Look really close at the rim of your loaded rounds to see it there is a wire edge of lead right on top of the rim.

[Machineguntony]

Thanks, Gents.

And thanks Chris, for pointing out that my OAL is too long in those pics. I didn't even see that. I did reseat deeper, but same problem. I am thinking the crimp is an issue.

Tonight I am going to crimp the hell out of these cast bullet rounds. One way or another, I am going to make these things work.

Oh, btw, I am seating and crimping in separate stages, not together. I am loading on a Dillon 650 and a Super 1050. There is one die for seating, and then a separate die for crimping.

[chris in va]

Well, if the mild taper crimp doesn't fix the issue, you'll want to get that FCD as I mentioned. It's like the TSA of the reloading world.

[Axelwik]

Use a cartridge gage. After you've fixed your setup so it drops into a cartridge gage, THEN check it in your barrel to see if rifling is a factor.

A cartridge that drops into a barrel may still not function while firing because most barrels are built a little sloppy to give properly sized cartridges a little wiggle room while chambering. If you don't size, crimp, and seat your ammo to where it fits into a max cartridge gage you may be producing ammo that doesn't meet SAAMI specs in terms of size. Guns are engineered to function with ammo that meets specs, not ammo that will plunk into the chamber by hand.

And like others have stated, crimp separately. I use a simple taper crimp for 45 Auto.