Necessary to tumble?? - Page 2

iraiam · March 14, 2014, 03:09 PM

I used to skip this step to save time, but nowadays I have enough brass on hand that there is no bottle neck in the case prep process to slow down feeding my Dillon. I demand my ammunition be of commercial grade or better in every respect, but that's just me.

4runnerman · March 14, 2014, 04:37 PM

Before I got my tumbler I used a mix of White Vinegar and Baking Soda mixed with water. Mix it up drop brass into mixture and stir every 5 minutes. Do this for 15 minutes and you will be surprised at how clean brass becomes. DO NOT leave brass in to long as it will turn colors and look bad. Almost cleans inside of case too. Tumbling sure is a lot easier though,but till you get one that method works real good too

wncchester · March 14, 2014, 08:44 PM

"I'm just struggling to see a benefit to making my cases shiny just for the sake of being shiny."

Well, just for the sake of shiney is the sum total of it.

The surface smoke residue on handgun cases actually acts as a mild lube for carbide dies. A real disadvantage of tumbling rifle cases is the visual early warning light colored stretch ring sign of an impending head seperation can't be seen if it's tumbled away with each reloading.

Dull cases, even black tarnished cases, don't harm dies or chambers and don't cause any more wear on the dies or chambers, they are just as long lasting and they shoot just as well as glittery cases. Shiney cases MAY be easier to spot in grass but if your rig doesn't toss cases that won't matter. Cleaning cases doesn't require tumbling and it certainly doesn't require polishing.

If anyone thinks shiney cases equate to better 'workmanship' or more attention to details, etc, they are easily impressed with trivials. I tumble because I want to, but I no longer polish, quit that more than twenty years ago. I'm sure not into trying to impress green horns at a range by how purty my ammo is.

4runnerman · March 14, 2014, 11:54 PM

wncchester- We or I any how don't tumble to get my cases to get them shiny, make them easier to see, or to impress anyone. I tumble to get my cases clean. Shiny is a bi product of tumbling. For the polishing,,It took me about 2 seconds to throw a capfull of polish in the media. ( not a time consumer ).

This post was- do I need to tumble after sonic cleaning, As most have said-Trash the sonic and just tumble. I agree with you that cases do not need to be tumbled at all but In that respect- They do not need primer pockets cleaned or to be trimmed every time,or uniform the pockets or de-burr the flash holes, but we do it. The reason is-We care,Has nothing to do with shiny,impressing people or anything else. It's because we care plain and simple as Im sure you do too.
Im 52 now and my impression days are long over

maillemaker · March 15, 2014, 01:03 PM

I tumble my brass, because I have a large industrial rotary tumbler that I bought for other purposes years ago:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/21693069?w...599990&veh=sem

I tumble with steel shot, dish soap, and Lemishine. Eventually I want to get some of those stainless steel pins to get better in the primer pockets.

I don't tumble for shiny brass, I tumble for cleaning. It just so happens that it comes out brilliantly shiny.

Dirty brass is fine. But it is noticeably more difficult to run through the reloading dies than clean brass.

Steve

Nordeste · March 15, 2014, 02:19 PM

If you're sonic cleaning your brass, you're already going further than what is strictly necessary. Your brass has to be clean so it doesn't damage your dies when sizing, that's the whole point of cleaning it. I own a tumbler and a ultrasonic, and use them both, but that's because I've become a clean brass freak and I love how my reloads look when I put them beside a factory load. Asked my girlfriend which one was each and she pointed at my reload saying "that's the factory one"

. Perhaps it won't shoot better, but I like it that way.

This said, before I bought the tumbler and the sonic, I just washed my brass inside a 2 liter can with citric acid or vinegar (citric acid is much better)+dish soap+hot water, shook it up for five minutes, let it there for half an hour and then a rinse in hot water+baking soda. Cases were perfectly fine for reloading once they were dry, which I usually achieved putting them 7 to 10 minutes under the hair dryer.

I still do this because my own brass, or whatever I pick up at the range is always dirty with mud or sand. I don't want that stuff in my tumbler's media, so I wash the cases with the above mentioned method. When they're dry I resize/decap and they go straight into the sonic. Half an hour gets them spotsless. After that they need to be dried again so I either do it (again) with the hair dryer or leave them dry by themselves, if there's no hurry. An hour of tumbling is the last step, and the outcome is like-new brass, and clean media with no powder or primer residue getting airborne inside the reloading room. All that crap is gone down the toilet. It looks more time consuming than it actually is. The machines work by themselves without supervision, and you can do something else meanwhile.

If I've run out of clean brass (which seldom happens) and I'm in a real hurry, Step 1 (hot water+dish soap+citric acid) is all I need to reload the brass. Some might think I'm overdoing it and they're probably right, but I like it this way and the only two instances in which I've had two primers failing to ignite, were two primers that had been seated in dirty primer pockets.

rodfac · March 17, 2014, 03:19 PM

In a word, NO. Cleaning brass is necessary from an accuracy point of view, only when it's picked up grit from ejection on the ground and may ruin your dies if sized in that condition. Some guys like pretty brass, more power to 'em, I like to shine up my Harley too before a ride, but neither makes a tinker's toot worth of difference on target. Best Regards, Rod

Machineguntony · March 17, 2014, 04:12 PM

Shiny brass is way overrated. It just looks good but creates extra work.

On the other hand, I have lots of friends who do not reload, and to them, reloading is dangerous and foreign. If the finished rounds looks anything other than a store bought new round, it freaks them out, and they think the round will blow up, destroy their gun, and cause the next nuclear winter.

rclark · March 17, 2014, 04:25 PM

Not necessary to tumble.

None of my brass ever is on the ground as all I shoot is revolvers. The normal power/lead residue will not harm the dies. I do a quick wipe with a paper towel though before resizing. Only time I will tumble the brass is if it range brass that I picked up off the ground or when I feel it's about time to re-shine up a bit (say after 4-10 reloads)... As said above, I've never found shiny vs dull/blackened brass shoot any different. Even clean vs dirty primer pockets makes no difference. End result is still the same regardless. Bottom line is the tumbling/ultrasonic is mostly just cosmetic... And as usual that is a personal thing

.

Real Gun · March 17, 2014, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Shiny brass is way overrated. It just looks good but creates extra work.

Shiny brass is a trademark of my shop. It is not much work except to separate calibers. How hard can it be to fill a bucket with wash solution, swirl a few times, drain, towel dry in cardboard flats, and dump into the corn cob media, still damp, coming back in about an hour to sift and transfer to final polish media?

Machineguntony · March 17, 2014, 07:34 PM

...fill a bucket with wash solution, swirl a few times, drain, towel dry in cardboard flats, and dump into the corn cob media, still damp, coming back in about an hour to sift and transfer to final polish media...

Real Gun, I don't know if you're joking, but that actually sounds like a ton of work! I understand if thats at your shop and part of your business, but dang, as a hobby that sounds like a lot of extra work just to get shiny brass. Its enough of a pain for me to assort the .380 brass from the 9mm from the vibratory tumbler.

4runnerman · March 18, 2014, 05:20 AM

Tony-Why are you 380 and 9mm mixed in the first place?. I also hate separating those 2 sizes, so close in size. I just stand them all up on table and pick out the short ones. I shoot, come home throw in tumbler for maybe 30 mins,lube,size and then throw back in tumbler for maybe another 2 hrs. If I get wrapped up in something else then they have been known to run in tumbler for 5 or 6 hrs.
I have more than enough brass of everything I shoot,that what I am tumbling now I do not need right away. So how long they sit in tumbler is no big deal.
The extra work people say for tumbling to a shine?. Not sure I understand that- My tumbler has this black thing coming out of it with 2 prongs on it. I found that if I plug that into a wall outlet it vibrates on its own

, No extra work on my behalf. To dump 2 tablespoons of nu finish in media took me 2 seconds. Not really what I would call extra work.

Real Gun · March 18, 2014, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Real Gun, I don't know if you're joking, but that actually sounds like a ton of work! I understand if thats at your shop and part of your business, but dang, as a hobby that sounds like a lot of extra work just to get shiny brass. Its enough of a pain for me to assort the .380 brass from the 9mm from the vibratory tumbler.

I am not work-averse enough to consider those quick and easy operations to be a bother.

Real Gun · March 18, 2014, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Its enough of a pain for me to assort the .380 brass from the 9mm from the vibratory tumbler.

I have the 3-pan brass sorting set, to which I added the optional .380 filter. You pour the brass and media into .44-45, which passes everything smaller. That drops into the 38-41, which passes 9mm, 380, et al.. That third pan gets the 380 filter on the bottom, which passes the 380 and smaller.

Machineguntony · March 18, 2014, 06:59 PM

I don't shoot 380, but at the range, I'll accidentally pick up a few 380s and they always get stuck inside the 9mm. Or the 9mm will get stuck in the 40.

I absolutely hate standing the rounds on end, so yes, I bought a case sorter from midway.

I absolutely love reloading, but I really hate the case sorting process.

happymachinist · March 23, 2014, 05:49 PM

Sorry I'm a little late here, I understand shiny brass is a preference type thing, not a must. I have a question, though, being new to reloading. Wouldn't shinier brass make finding defects in the brass easier to spot for a novice like myself?

4runnerman · March 23, 2014, 06:48 PM

Happy- yes it makes it easier, Not to much problem other way either though. Difference between shiney brass and other brass--one or two tabelspoons of car wax.

boondocker385 · March 24, 2014, 08:54 AM

I have yet to find "dirty" primer pockets to be an issue in handgun loads. rifle is a different story. tumbling is generally sufficient for handguns and if you have shiny brass it can be easier to find. over time it turns dull anyway (I have some 38,special and 45 acp with over 15 loads that are now dull)

Clark · March 24, 2014, 10:42 AM

I handload on different levels.
A) The lowest level, with two rocks and a nail, I do almost NO cleaning.
But any cases with so much mud on them that they will not chamber, I wipe against my leg.
The leg sticks out of my Alley Oop cave man fur outfit.
B) A the highest level of reloading, in an ISO class 5 clean room, I wear the bunny suit.
With a similar look...I recently had this outfit sent to an NPR listener who was worried about radiation reaching the USA from the Fukushima nuclear disaster.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QB2ZZ6/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008F4HP6/
Being a worry wort does not have to be expensive.
Anyhow, at the cleanest level, I do not tumble, instead I manually clean with Liquinox
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003FZAQKG/
Checking with an electron microscope, I find it is the only product that rinses free of any residue.

March 14, 2014, 03:09 PM	#26
iraiam Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: Lakewood, CO Posts: 1,057	I used to skip this step to save time, but nowadays I have enough brass on hand that there is no bottle neck in the case prep process to slow down feeding my Dillon. I demand my ammunition be of commercial grade or better in every respect, but that's just me. __________________ NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999 "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason

March 14, 2014, 04:37 PM	#27
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Before I got my tumbler I used a mix of White Vinegar and Baking Soda mixed with water. Mix it up drop brass into mixture and stir every 5 minutes. Do this for 15 minutes and you will be surprised at how clean brass becomes. DO NOT leave brass in to long as it will turn colors and look bad. Almost cleans inside of case too. Tumbling sure is a lot easier though,but till you get one that method works real good too __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

March 14, 2014, 11:54 PM	#29
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	wncchester- We or I any how don't tumble to get my cases to get them shiny, make them easier to see, or to impress anyone. I tumble to get my cases clean. Shiny is a bi product of tumbling. For the polishing,,It took me about 2 seconds to throw a capfull of polish in the media. ( not a time consumer ). This post was- do I need to tumble after sonic cleaning, As most have said-Trash the sonic and just tumble. I agree with you that cases do not need to be tumbled at all but In that respect- They do not need primer pockets cleaned or to be trimmed every time,or uniform the pockets or de-burr the flash holes, but we do it. The reason is-We care,Has nothing to do with shiny,impressing people or anything else. It's because we care plain and simple as Im sure you do too. Im 52 now and my impression days are long over __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional Last edited by 4runnerman; March 15, 2014 at 12:01 AM.

March 17, 2014, 03:19 PM	#32
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	In a word, NO. Cleaning brass is necessary from an accuracy point of view, only when it's picked up grit from ejection on the ground and may ruin your dies if sized in that condition. Some guys like pretty brass, more power to 'em, I like to shine up my Harley too before a ride, but neither makes a tinker's toot worth of difference on target. Best Regards, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

March 17, 2014, 04:12 PM	#33
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	Shiny brass is way overrated. It just looks good but creates extra work. On the other hand, I have lots of friends who do not reload, and to them, reloading is dangerous and foreign. If the finished rounds looks anything other than a store bought new round, it freaks them out, and they think the round will blow up, destroy their gun, and cause the next nuclear winter. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

March 14, 2014, 08:44 PM	#28
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"I'm just struggling to see a benefit to making my cases shiny just for the sake of being shiny." Well, just for the sake of shiney is the sum total of it. The surface smoke residue on handgun cases actually acts as a mild lube for carbide dies. A real disadvantage of tumbling rifle cases is the visual early warning light colored stretch ring sign of an impending head seperation can't be seen if it's tumbled away with each reloading. Dull cases, even black tarnished cases, don't harm dies or chambers and don't cause any more wear on the dies or chambers, they are just as long lasting and they shoot just as well as glittery cases. Shiney cases MAY be easier to spot in grass but if your rig doesn't toss cases that won't matter. Cleaning cases doesn't require tumbling and it certainly doesn't require polishing. If anyone thinks shiney cases equate to better 'workmanship' or more attention to details, etc, they are easily impressed with trivials. I tumble because I want to, but I no longer polish, quit that more than twenty years ago. I'm sure not into trying to impress green horns at a range by how purty my ammo is.

March 15, 2014, 01:03 PM	#30
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I tumble my brass, because I have a large industrial rotary tumbler that I bought for other purposes years ago: http://www.walmart.com/ip/21693069?w...599990&veh=sem I tumble with steel shot, dish soap, and Lemishine. Eventually I want to get some of those stainless steel pins to get better in the primer pockets. I don't tumble for shiny brass, I tumble for cleaning. It just so happens that it comes out brilliantly shiny. Dirty brass is fine. But it is noticeably more difficult to run through the reloading dies than clean brass. Steve

March 15, 2014, 02:19 PM	#31
Nordeste Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2011 Location: Asturias, Spain Posts: 328	If you're sonic cleaning your brass, you're already going further than what is strictly necessary. Your brass has to be clean so it doesn't damage your dies when sizing, that's the whole point of cleaning it. I own a tumbler and a ultrasonic, and use them both, but that's because I've become a clean brass freak and I love how my reloads look when I put them beside a factory load. Asked my girlfriend which one was each and she pointed at my reload saying "that's the factory one" . Perhaps it won't shoot better, but I like it that way. This said, before I bought the tumbler and the sonic, I just washed my brass inside a 2 liter can with citric acid or vinegar (citric acid is much better)+dish soap+hot water, shook it up for five minutes, let it there for half an hour and then a rinse in hot water+baking soda. Cases were perfectly fine for reloading once they were dry, which I usually achieved putting them 7 to 10 minutes under the hair dryer. I still do this because my own brass, or whatever I pick up at the range is always dirty with mud or sand. I don't want that stuff in my tumbler's media, so I wash the cases with the above mentioned method. When they're dry I resize/decap and they go straight into the sonic. Half an hour gets them spotsless. After that they need to be dried again so I either do it (again) with the hair dryer or leave them dry by themselves, if there's no hurry. An hour of tumbling is the last step, and the outcome is like-new brass, and clean media with no powder or primer residue getting airborne inside the reloading room. All that crap is gone down the toilet. It looks more time consuming than it actually is. The machines work by themselves without supervision, and you can do something else meanwhile. If I've run out of clean brass (which seldom happens) and I'm in a real hurry, Step 1 (hot water+dish soap+citric acid) is all I need to reload the brass. Some might think I'm overdoing it and they're probably right, but I like it this way and the only two instances in which I've had two primers failing to ignite, were two primers that had been seated in dirty primer pockets.

March 17, 2014, 04:25 PM	#34
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,618	Not necessary to tumble. None of my brass ever is on the ground as all I shoot is revolvers. The normal power/lead residue will not harm the dies. I do a quick wipe with a paper towel though before resizing. Only time I will tumble the brass is if it range brass that I picked up off the ground or when I feel it's about time to re-shine up a bit (say after 4-10 reloads)... As said above, I've never found shiny vs dull/blackened brass shoot any different. Even clean vs dirty primer pockets makes no difference. End result is still the same regardless. Bottom line is the tumbling/ultrasonic is mostly just cosmetic... And as usual that is a personal thing . __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

March 17, 2014, 07:34 PM	#36
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	...fill a bucket with wash solution, swirl a few times, drain, towel dry in cardboard flats, and dump into the corn cob media, still damp, coming back in about an hour to sift and transfer to final polish media... Real Gun, I don't know if you're joking, but that actually sounds like a ton of work! I understand if thats at your shop and part of your business, but dang, as a hobby that sounds like a lot of extra work just to get shiny brass. Its enough of a pain for me to assort the .380 brass from the 9mm from the vibratory tumbler. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

March 18, 2014, 05:20 AM	#37
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Tony-Why are you 380 and 9mm mixed in the first place?. I also hate separating those 2 sizes, so close in size. I just stand them all up on table and pick out the short ones. I shoot, come home throw in tumbler for maybe 30 mins,lube,size and then throw back in tumbler for maybe another 2 hrs. If I get wrapped up in something else then they have been known to run in tumbler for 5 or 6 hrs. I have more than enough brass of everything I shoot,that what I am tumbling now I do not need right away. So how long they sit in tumbler is no big deal. The extra work people say for tumbling to a shine?. Not sure I understand that- My tumbler has this black thing coming out of it with 2 prongs on it. I found that if I plug that into a wall outlet it vibrates on its own, No extra work on my behalf. To dump 2 tablespoons of nu finish in media took me 2 seconds. Not really what I would call extra work. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

March 18, 2014, 06:59 PM	#40
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	I don't shoot 380, but at the range, I'll accidentally pick up a few 380s and they always get stuck inside the 9mm. Or the 9mm will get stuck in the 40. I absolutely hate standing the rounds on end, so yes, I bought a case sorter from midway. I absolutely love reloading, but I really hate the case sorting process. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

March 23, 2014, 05:49 PM	#41
happymachinist Member Join Date: December 11, 2012 Location: Central Nebraska Posts: 55	Sorry I'm a little late here, I understand shiny brass is a preference type thing, not a must. I have a question, though, being new to reloading. Wouldn't shinier brass make finding defects in the brass easier to spot for a novice like myself?

March 23, 2014, 06:48 PM	#42
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Happy- yes it makes it easier, Not to much problem other way either though. Difference between shiney brass and other brass--one or two tabelspoons of car wax. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

March 24, 2014, 08:54 AM	#43
boondocker385 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2013 Posts: 640	I have yet to find "dirty" primer pockets to be an issue in handgun loads. rifle is a different story. tumbling is generally sufficient for handguns and if you have shiny brass it can be easier to find. over time it turns dull anyway (I have some 38,special and 45 acp with over 15 loads that are now dull) __________________ No second place finishes in a gun fight.

March 24, 2014, 10:42 AM	#44
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	Necessary? I handload on different levels. A) The lowest level, with two rocks and a nail, I do almost NO cleaning. But any cases with so much mud on them that they will not chamber, I wipe against my leg. The leg sticks out of my Alley Oop cave man fur outfit. B) A the highest level of reloading, in an ISO class 5 clean room, I wear the bunny suit. With a similar look...I recently had this outfit sent to an NPR listener who was worried about radiation reaching the USA from the Fukushima nuclear disaster. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QB2ZZ6/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008F4HP6/ Being a worry wort does not have to be expensive. Anyhow, at the cleanest level, I do not tumble, instead I manually clean with Liquinox http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003FZAQKG/ Checking with an electron microscope, I find it is the only product that rinses free of any residue. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search