Italian Cap & Ball Maker Question

rrogers · December 30, 2011, 09:35 AM

I have an Italian made copy of a .44 blackpowder revolver.
I was told it was an "1861 Navy"
It has a navy scene on the cylinder
It is brass framed case hardened with what looks like a CSA on one side of the brass next to the grip, (the "S" is backwards)
The AE in the square box denotes a 1979 manufacture year.
It has "For blackpowder use only - made in Italy" on the barrel
The only possible manufacture mark is above the serial number - it is a circle with 3 letters starting with a "D" to the the right above is a "G" and then below the "G" is either another "G" or a "C".
Does anyone know who manufactured this?
I know what the Umberti, Pietta, and Army San Marco marks look like and it is not them.

Ozzieman · January 1, 2012, 03:34 PM

This should be asked in the Black powder section. There will be more members there that can answer questions concerning cap and ball replicas.
I have a number of black powder guns Umberti, Flli Pietta, Dixie and Navy arms. All were made in Italy.
The only one I have somewhat like yours is an 1860 Dixie gun works which is in 36 Cal and octagon barrel, with the naval seen on the cylinder.
It’s not unusual for Italian manufactures to not mark their guns. I think that they are built and sold to companies like Dixie and they stamp the gun. I have an 1851 Navy and the Dixie lettering across the top of the barrel are nothing like the manufacturing markings throughout the gun. Of the 9 that I own only 5 have manufactures name on them the remainder ether have no name or have the US company that sold them
I’m afraid that none of my guns match the markings on yours but then again I only have two 61’s.

jhenry · January 1, 2012, 03:40 PM

None of the real Navies were .44's. Navies were .36's. In addition, the frame may be brass, and it may be case hardened, but it can't be both. If it is a case hardened frame it is steel or iron. Brass will just look like brass.

That being said, there have been copies of Colt Navies that were sold in .44 instead of .36, it could be one of those. A picture would help. I am guessing it is a 1860 Army, or a 1851 Navy made as a .44.

Ozzieman · January 1, 2012, 04:15 PM

I think what he meant was the frame was steel and the trigger guard and forward grip frame was brass. Also it’s probably not case hardened but chemically made to look like case hardening.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 1, 2012, 07:22 PM

Photos would help ... a lot.

Hawg · January 1, 2012, 09:18 PM

Armi san Paulo which later became Euroarms.

Fingers McGee · January 1, 2012, 11:50 PM

Is it brass framed or color case hardened frame with brass backstrap & triggerguard? Round barrel or octagonal barrel? Creeping loading lever or hinged loading lever? As Aguila Blanca said, pictures would help immensely.

It sounds like its an 1860 Army revolver; but pictures, would nail it down.

December 30, 2011, 09:35 AM	#1
rrogers Junior Member Join Date: December 30, 2011 Posts: 2	Italian Cap & Ball Maker Question I have an Italian made copy of a .44 blackpowder revolver. I was told it was an "1861 Navy" It has a navy scene on the cylinder It is brass framed case hardened with what looks like a CSA on one side of the brass next to the grip, (the "S" is backwards) The AE in the square box denotes a 1979 manufacture year. It has "For blackpowder use only - made in Italy" on the barrel The only possible manufacture mark is above the serial number - it is a circle with 3 letters starting with a "D" to the the right above is a "G" and then below the "G" is either another "G" or a "C". Does anyone know who manufactured this? I know what the Umberti, Pietta, and Army San Marco marks look like and it is not them.

January 1, 2012, 03:40 PM	#3
jhenry Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Location: Ozarks Posts: 1,840	None of the real Navies were .44's. Navies were .36's. In addition, the frame may be brass, and it may be case hardened, but it can't be both. If it is a case hardened frame it is steel or iron. Brass will just look like brass. That being said, there have been copies of Colt Navies that were sold in .44 instead of .36, it could be one of those. A picture would help. I am guessing it is a 1860 Army, or a 1851 Navy made as a .44. __________________ "A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer

January 1, 2012, 11:50 PM	#7
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Is it brass framed or color case hardened frame with brass backstrap & triggerguard? Round barrel or octagonal barrel? Creeping loading lever or hinged loading lever? As Aguila Blanca said, pictures would help immensely. It sounds like its an 1860 Army revolver; but pictures, would nail it down. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

January 1, 2012, 03:34 PM	#2
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	This should be asked in the Black powder section. There will be more members there that can answer questions concerning cap and ball replicas. I have a number of black powder guns Umberti, Flli Pietta, Dixie and Navy arms. All were made in Italy. The only one I have somewhat like yours is an 1860 Dixie gun works which is in 36 Cal and octagon barrel, with the naval seen on the cylinder. It’s not unusual for Italian manufactures to not mark their guns. I think that they are built and sold to companies like Dixie and they stamp the gun. I have an 1851 Navy and the Dixie lettering across the top of the barrel are nothing like the manufacturing markings throughout the gun. Of the 9 that I own only 5 have manufactures name on them the remainder ether have no name or have the US company that sold them I’m afraid that none of my guns match the markings on yours but then again I only have two 61’s.

January 1, 2012, 04:15 PM	#4
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I think what he meant was the frame was steel and the trigger guard and forward grip frame was brass. Also it’s probably not case hardened but chemically made to look like case hardening.

January 1, 2012, 07:22 PM	#5
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Photos would help ... a lot.

January 1, 2012, 09:18 PM	#6
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Armi san Paulo which later became Euroarms.