Worth separating?

praetorian97 · May 26, 2011, 09:17 AM

Right now I separate my brass into lots by how many times its been fired/reloaded. This is by no means a substitution for checking the integrity of the case. I figured I would hit a max on any case even if didnt show signs of fatigue then scrap it.

Since I perform the reload process in stages each night every case is getting handled and inspected a lot. Is it worth my time separating them in lots or shoudl I just keep shooting them until they split?

If I find myself continually trimming a 223 round I will get worried about reusing that case over and over.

PA-Joe · May 26, 2011, 09:56 AM

Ater reloading I place the ammo in boxes that holds 50 rounds. Each box is labled with the specific reloading data for that box. I track how many times I have reloaded each box. Once a number of rounds start to show signs of age I finish that box off and dump the cases. You have to learn to lable each box with the load data and date it was done. You should alos be keeping a log book so that if anything goes wrong you can trace it back and thereby find the cause.

praetorian97 · May 26, 2011, 10:02 AM

I do use labels that include the Powder/Bullet/Primer Types, the charge weight, how many times it was reloaded, and the last reload date for all my rounds.

What sparked this thought is I just got done cleaning about 30 once fired factory loads and another 50 twice fired reloads I did. Was thinking I either need to not keep these seperate or really just start collecting each batch until I have a substantial amount of brass to reload in each caliber.

**Unclenick** · May 26, 2011, 10:06 AM

I think the segregation is worthwhile. I toss whole lots that are used in self-loaders after I've started to pick up pressure ring thinning with inside probes. I don't want a head separation in a match. Neck splitting can be stopped by annealing, so I don't consider that a terminating sign. How many times you reload before that all starts happeings depends on how warm your loads are and how far you resize. Neck tension changes as the brass work hardens, so you may find some improvement in velocity extreme spread from keeping reloading history segregated. That matters mainly for long range shooting, though. At 100 yards you don't normally detect it unless you are shooting benchrest.

praetorian97 · May 26, 2011, 10:17 AM

Ok so I am a new guy still. I completely understand that if I see a seperated head to toss it. Im curious what happens when I shoot the round then the head seperates? Anything bad other than I lost a brass round to reload?

**Unclenick** · May 26, 2011, 10:26 AM

Mostly you just find yourself in need of a case extractor tool to get the part of the case left in the chamber out if it won't fall out.

Normal brass inspection procedure is to straighten a paperclip and put a short 90° bend at the end of it. This makes the probe. You just feel along the inside of the case with that bent end for a dip in the brass near the head, where the wall has thinned. Toss it if you feel one is the usual advice for self-loader brass. In truth, all cases develop this gradually if they are full-length resized, and so they all have it in degrees. I think it's more precise to say you toss it if it feels pronounced or clearly present. I know that's vague, but following a few cases through repeated load cycles will give you the feel for it.

John Feamster said he always tossed his M1A brass after the 4th cycle. I don't know if that counted the first loading or not. It probably did. That gives you some sense of when you could expect to start detecting the issue in that rifle and cartridge, with brass full length resized every time.

That'll Do · May 26, 2011, 03:28 PM

The only brass I separate is 223 Remington. I separate it by the number of times it has been fired, so I can keep track of when it will be due to be trimmed again.

Handgun brass gets separated by headstamp, and that's it. I pitch it when the case mouth splits.

Clifford L. Hughes · May 26, 2011, 04:27 PM

Praetorian97:

In 1965 I wanted to know how many times a lot of brass could be reloaded. I've lost the actual data so I'll share with you what I can remember. I chose twenty-five rounds of Remington .41 magnum ammo. I took my reloading equipment to the range and I started shooting and reloading. The cases wern't annealed and they were charged with full power loads. The first neck split at the seventh firing; the last case split on about the twenty-fifth firing. Total shots for the lot of brass was 480.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired

praetorian97 · May 26, 2011, 04:44 PM

Thanks for that data. Time to buy some tubs and start storing brass in lots.

azphx55 · May 27, 2011, 10:26 AM

This applies only to handguns and not at max loads:

I do well to collect 80% of my brass. I stopped separating it when I realized how long it was going to take to accumulate 50 rounds of brass that had all been fired 5 times.

Fortunately, fairly often somebody next to me at the range will be shooting factory and will be happy to sweep their brass into my pile so I've had a stead stream of new once-fired brass coming in to replace the 20% I lose.

Don P · May 27, 2011, 10:47 AM

My opinion is shoot them until they split. Again IMO you are just wasting time with all the sorting.

May 26, 2011, 09:17 AM	#1
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	Worth separating? Right now I separate my brass into lots by how many times its been fired/reloaded. This is by no means a substitution for checking the integrity of the case. I figured I would hit a max on any case even if didnt show signs of fatigue then scrap it. Since I perform the reload process in stages each night every case is getting handled and inspected a lot. Is it worth my time separating them in lots or shoudl I just keep shooting them until they split? If I find myself continually trimming a 223 round I will get worried about reusing that case over and over.

May 26, 2011, 10:06 AM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I think the segregation is worthwhile. I toss whole lots that are used in self-loaders after I've started to pick up pressure ring thinning with inside probes. I don't want a head separation in a match. Neck splitting can be stopped by annealing, so I don't consider that a terminating sign. How many times you reload before that all starts happeings depends on how warm your loads are and how far you resize. Neck tension changes as the brass work hardens, so you may find some improvement in velocity extreme spread from keeping reloading history segregated. That matters mainly for long range shooting, though. At 100 yards you don't normally detect it unless you are shooting benchrest. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 26, 2011, 10:26 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Mostly you just find yourself in need of a case extractor tool to get the part of the case left in the chamber out if it won't fall out. Normal brass inspection procedure is to straighten a paperclip and put a short 90° bend at the end of it. This makes the probe. You just feel along the inside of the case with that bent end for a dip in the brass near the head, where the wall has thinned. Toss it if you feel one is the usual advice for self-loader brass. In truth, all cases develop this gradually if they are full-length resized, and so they all have it in degrees. I think it's more precise to say you toss it if it feels pronounced or clearly present. I know that's vague, but following a few cases through repeated load cycles will give you the feel for it. John Feamster said he always tossed his M1A brass after the 4th cycle. I don't know if that counted the first loading or not. It probably did. That gives you some sense of when you could expect to start detecting the issue in that rifle and cartridge, with brass full length resized every time. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 26, 2011, 04:27 PM	#8
Clifford L. Hughes Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2011 Location: Southern Californis Posts: 795	Clifford L. Hughes Praetorian97: In 1965 I wanted to know how many times a lot of brass could be reloaded. I've lost the actual data so I'll share with you what I can remember. I chose twenty-five rounds of Remington .41 magnum ammo. I took my reloading equipment to the range and I started shooting and reloading. The cases wern't annealed and they were charged with full power loads. The first neck split at the seventh firing; the last case split on about the twenty-fifth firing. Total shots for the lot of brass was 480. Semper Fi. Gunnery sergeant Clifford L. Hughes USMC Retired Last edited by Clifford L. Hughes; May 26, 2011 at 04:40 PM. Reason: left out message

May 27, 2011, 10:47 AM	#11
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	My opinion is shoot them until they split. Again IMO you are just wasting time with all the sorting. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

May 26, 2011, 09:56 AM	#2
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	Ater reloading I place the ammo in boxes that holds 50 rounds. Each box is labled with the specific reloading data for that box. I track how many times I have reloaded each box. Once a number of rounds start to show signs of age I finish that box off and dump the cases. You have to learn to lable each box with the load data and date it was done. You should alos be keeping a log book so that if anything goes wrong you can trace it back and thereby find the cause.

May 26, 2011, 10:02 AM	#3
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	I do use labels that include the Powder/Bullet/Primer Types, the charge weight, how many times it was reloaded, and the last reload date for all my rounds. What sparked this thought is I just got done cleaning about 30 once fired factory loads and another 50 twice fired reloads I did. Was thinking I either need to not keep these seperate or really just start collecting each batch until I have a substantial amount of brass to reload in each caliber.

May 26, 2011, 10:17 AM	#5
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	Ok so I am a new guy still. I completely understand that if I see a seperated head to toss it. Im curious what happens when I shoot the round then the head seperates? Anything bad other than I lost a brass round to reload?

May 26, 2011, 03:28 PM	#7
That'll Do Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 546	The only brass I separate is 223 Remington. I separate it by the number of times it has been fired, so I can keep track of when it will be due to be trimmed again. Handgun brass gets separated by headstamp, and that's it. I pitch it when the case mouth splits.

May 26, 2011, 04:44 PM	#9
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	Thanks for that data. Time to buy some tubs and start storing brass in lots.

May 27, 2011, 10:26 AM	#10
azphx55 Member Join Date: September 7, 2010 Posts: 85	This applies only to handguns and not at max loads: I do well to collect 80% of my brass. I stopped separating it when I realized how long it was going to take to accumulate 50 rounds of brass that had all been fired 5 times. Fortunately, fairly often somebody next to me at the range will be shooting factory and will be happy to sweep their brass into my pile so I've had a stead stream of new once-fired brass coming in to replace the 20% I lose.