.45 ACP and lead bullets

spacecoast · January 16, 2010, 07:29 PM

I have noticed a recurrent problem with my 230 gr. LRN reloads using what feels most of the time like a very good combination of 4.7 grains of Titegroup, 230 gr. LRN bullets and a COL of 1.26". About once a mag, at random, the slide fails to cycle fully (the new round doesn't fully chamber) and the hammer falls without firing the round. Sometimes the slide can be pushed forward manually, and the hammer pulled back manually. Other times I have to drop the mag and eject the bullet, reload it in the mag and start over again.

Upon examination, the bullets that are failing to load properly have a thin ring or piece of either bullet lube or a bit of lead that is sticking to it after the final crimp with the Lee FCD. After scraping that bit of stuff off with my fingernail (normally it's stuck right at the top of the case or a the case-bullet junction), the round cycles fine.

Any suggestions as to how best to eliminate this junk? Do I need to expand the case more fully, or should I take an extra step to inspect each round 360 degrees around to make sure it's perfectly clean of debris? Is there an easy way to do this, or a tool I could use to make it fast and simple?

oif-vet · January 16, 2010, 07:44 PM

spacecoast, yes you need to expand the case mouth more. You should not be shaving any lead or lube when you seat the bullet. Also, if this has been going on for a while I bet you need to clean your crimp die. Good luck.

Sigman40 · January 16, 2010, 08:25 PM

Yes - you should expand the case mouth a little more. The lead shouldn't shave off the bullet. I do see some of the lube sometimes. I just wipe that off before I put them in the box.

Slamfire · January 16, 2010, 09:29 PM

Expand more and taper crimp the case mouth to 0.469"

Edward429451 · January 16, 2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

should I take an extra step to inspect each round 360 degrees around to make sure it's perfectly clean of debris?

That would be a standard step, not an extra. I do this as I am wiping them down and boxing them, final inspection.

cheezhed · January 16, 2010, 11:51 PM

you may want to seat and taper crimp in separate operations. if you try to seat and crimp all at once lead and lube can be shaved and cause problems. I seat,crimp and use a lee fcd die in three separate operations and have eliminated this problem but I still check for the ring.

dcody40 · January 19, 2010, 05:38 PM

When I was learning some of the competition habits and good practices, one important item, was this very issue, I would drop each round that was going to be used in a match, into my chamber, I used a new broken in barrell for just this issue, some used case gages, I was a poor young inexperienced navy guy just breaking into the sport. So used the low tech method of chambering each round with the barrell pulled out of the gun and hand held. drop a round in and then tip it out into the good bullet bucket. A bad round would show it self right away. My reloads where purchased from a local reloading shop in those days, and even these would sometimes have a bad round, split cases, messed up primers. I'm just now getting into reloading my own ammo and have learned a few good tidbits from the pro's.

keep em safe !..

Dillon 650 and Lee single stage.

azredhawk44 · January 19, 2010, 05:42 PM

+1 to inspection.

Lead is cheaper than jacketed or plated... in $$.

Not so, in time.

You can alleviate the problem a bit by doing a large mouth flare. You can alleviate the problem with separate seat/crimp process.

But if you want 100% reliability from your reloads for matches, you gotta inspect them. Lead and lube are sloppier than copper.

snuffy · January 19, 2010, 05:55 PM

AZred FINALLY said what everybody else should have said. You aren't flaring the mouth of your cases enough. The expander has a flaring portion above the normal expanding portion of the plug. Just lower it a little more, until you can sit the lead bullet on/in the mouth of the case, so you CAN'T see the base of the bullet.

Then as said, you need to make sure that flared mouth is removed by the crimp die. I crimp to .471 on most of my 45's.

azredhawk44 · January 19, 2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

I crimp to .471 on most of my 45's.

I used to...

until I recently ran into some problems with some aging cases that are still plenty fine for shooting, except they've shortened a bit from the repeated firing.

When I set my crimp for 0.471 for fairly new brass, I get 0.474+ on really old brass.

I've been told that SAAMI spec for crimp on 45acp is actually 0.469. I have yet to test out 0.469 on my lead bullets in stock currently, but another 0.002 of forgiveness space would make my reloads MUCH more reliable.

Out of a batch of 200 rounds, I set aside a total of 18 for not hand-chambering in my barrel when removed from the gun. All of them were 0.474+ in diameter despite my press being set for my model cartridge at 0.471 crimp.

This mixed brass is anywhere from 2 to 10 years old and winchester/federal/remington/fiocchi/S&B headstamps.

azredhawk44 · January 19, 2010, 06:05 PM

One last thing though...

Excessive flaring will wear out the case by eventually causing the case mouth to split.

A cost-draw-back to shooting lead.

January 16, 2010, 07:29 PM	#1
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	.45 ACP and lead bullets I have noticed a recurrent problem with my 230 gr. LRN reloads using what feels most of the time like a very good combination of 4.7 grains of Titegroup, 230 gr. LRN bullets and a COL of 1.26". About once a mag, at random, the slide fails to cycle fully (the new round doesn't fully chamber) and the hammer falls without firing the round. Sometimes the slide can be pushed forward manually, and the hammer pulled back manually. Other times I have to drop the mag and eject the bullet, reload it in the mag and start over again. Upon examination, the bullets that are failing to load properly have a thin ring or piece of either bullet lube or a bit of lead that is sticking to it after the final crimp with the Lee FCD. After scraping that bit of stuff off with my fingernail (normally it's stuck right at the top of the case or a the case-bullet junction), the round cycles fine. Any suggestions as to how best to eliminate this junk? Do I need to expand the case more fully, or should I take an extra step to inspect each round 360 degrees around to make sure it's perfectly clean of debris? Is there an easy way to do this, or a tool I could use to make it fast and simple?

January 16, 2010, 07:44 PM	#2
oif-vet Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Fort Bliss, Texas Posts: 24	spacecoast, yes you need to expand the case mouth more. You should not be shaving any lead or lube when you seat the bullet. Also, if this has been going on for a while I bet you need to clean your crimp die. Good luck. __________________ RRA AR-15, SA Custom Mil-Spec 1911, XD-45 Compact, Ruger P90

January 19, 2010, 05:38 PM	#7
dcody40 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 124	Inspecting your reloads in practice When I was learning some of the competition habits and good practices, one important item, was this very issue, I would drop each round that was going to be used in a match, into my chamber, I used a new broken in barrell for just this issue, some used case gages, I was a poor young inexperienced navy guy just breaking into the sport. So used the low tech method of chambering each round with the barrell pulled out of the gun and hand held. drop a round in and then tip it out into the good bullet bucket. A bad round would show it self right away. My reloads where purchased from a local reloading shop in those days, and even these would sometimes have a bad round, split cases, messed up primers. I'm just now getting into reloading my own ammo and have learned a few good tidbits from the pro's. keep em safe !.. Dillon 650 and Lee single stage.

January 19, 2010, 05:55 PM	#9
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	AZred FINALLY said what everybody else should have said. You aren't flaring the mouth of your cases enough. The expander has a flaring portion above the normal expanding portion of the plug. Just lower it a little more, until you can sit the lead bullet on/in the mouth of the case, so you CAN'T see the base of the bullet. Then as said, you need to make sure that flared mouth is removed by the crimp die. I crimp to .471 on most of my 45's. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

January 16, 2010, 08:25 PM	#3
Sigman40 Junior Member Join Date: May 17, 2009 Posts: 5	Yes - you should expand the case mouth a little more. The lead shouldn't shave off the bullet. I do see some of the lube sometimes. I just wipe that off before I put them in the box.

January 16, 2010, 09:29 PM	#4
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Expand more and taper crimp the case mouth to 0.469"

January 16, 2010, 11:51 PM	#6
cheezhed Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2007 Posts: 302	you may want to seat and taper crimp in separate operations. if you try to seat and crimp all at once lead and lube can be shaved and cause problems. I seat,crimp and use a lee fcd die in three separate operations and have eliminated this problem but I still check for the ring.

January 19, 2010, 05:42 PM	#8
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	+1 to inspection. Lead is cheaper than jacketed or plated... in $$. Not so, in time. You can alleviate the problem a bit by doing a large mouth flare. You can alleviate the problem with separate seat/crimp process. But if you want 100% reliability from your reloads for matches, you gotta inspect them. Lead and lube are sloppier than copper.

January 19, 2010, 06:05 PM	#11
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	One last thing though... Excessive flaring will wear out the case by eventually causing the case mouth to split. A cost-draw-back to shooting lead.