Holster question..

Handgun Harry · March 26, 2001, 02:26 PM

I currently only own 1 pistol. A Colt Commander 1911. It's a pretty decent sized firearm.. With my current holster (hip draw, slightly angled), the firearm is too noticeable (IMO) when I turn my upper body in the right way.. the butt of the firearms is noticeable through my jacket. I am pretty sure it's because the holster is slightly angeled.. if I got one that wasn't angled at all, it probably wouldn't stick out nearly as much..

Either way, it's a big pistol.. and I am going to buy a Kimber Pro carry for my carry weapon (now that I have my permit). That purchase is at lesat 4 months away though. Until then I was thinking about just getting a easier concealable holster for my Colt. Here's where I need a question answered. I need to know the NAME/TYPE of holster I am talking about here.. it's cross draw, and it hangs underneath your weak side arm.. the 'movie holster'.. what the heck is that type of holster called (so the shop guys know what I am talking about)..

Now.. yes I know that isn't the safest way to carry.. I've heard all the lectures of cross draw vs hip draw.. but it's only short term until I get my Kimber.. until then I'd like to be able to at least carry my Colt and have it be concealable with the consideration of it's size.. I think that specific holster would be the best way to conceal the Colt..

M1911 · March 26, 2001, 03:50 PM

Are you talking about a shoulder holster?

Can't help you on which one as I'm not a fan of them. For best concealment, I recommend an IWB holster.

Lots of good holster makers:

Lou Alessi: http://www.rfholsters.com
Milt Sparks: http://www.miltsparks.com
Rusty Sherrick: http://www.c-rusty.com

And lots more.

But yes, with almost any holster you can print if you turn the wrong way. Some print more than others. Good custom holster keep the butt of the gun in tight against your body, reducing the amount that it prints. With most any belt holster, if you bend over at the waist to pick something up, the butt of the gun will print. So instead, you bend your knees and squat down.

For OWB holsters, you can get them in most any angle you want, whether FBI cant (about 15 degrees) or vertical.

In terms of getting a holster quickly, good holsters come from custom holster makers who make them one at a time. The faster ones have a month or so turn around. The ones who are more backed up can take 6 months. The factory holsters (like Galco) that I have been able to order off the shelf and get quickly are the holsters that are stuck in cardboard box in my basement labeled "holsters that don't work." YMMV.

M1911

ArmySon · March 26, 2001, 03:58 PM

This post really belongs in the Gear and Accessories
Forum. Since I'm moving it over there, it'll be locked in this forum. Check for all your replies here: Gear and Accessories

Handgun Harry · March 26, 2001, 04:32 PM

M1911.. thanks for the tips! (bend at the knees!)..

Well.. there is a custom holster shop a few miles from my place.. I checked them out last month and they said a custom holster would be about a months wait. For my 2nd pistol, I *REALLY* want to get a Kimber Ultra CDP.. so we're talking like a grand there..

I think spending $70-$100 and get a nice custom holster for my Colt in the meantime would be best and I don't see myself saving up a thousand dollars (or so) anytime soon to buy the CDP I want..

man.. I need two tax returns! (as long as I don't have to pay twice as much in taxes though! heh)

Hey.. wanna loan me a G so I can get my CDP?? j/k

-HaHa

Monkeyleg · March 26, 2001, 05:40 PM

Nobody hardly ever mentions Mitch Rosen holsters around here, probably because of the cost. Rosen does have an "Express" line, though, that's first-quality but without some of the fancy hand-tooling. I got an ARG inside the waistband holster from them, and it was in stock so there was no wait. It's taken a lot of screwing around to get my wardrobe right so that the gun doesn't show. Bending over is always going to be a problem.

My local dealer has a Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster that my Kimber Pro Carry is just dying to ride in. If I wore suits more often, I could justify the $130 price tag.

Dick

Handgun Harry · March 26, 2001, 05:47 PM

Ok.. excuse me for being a noob.. but..

IWB.. I've seen holsters that have a plastic peice that slip inside your pants/slacks and don't use a belt.. are these the IWB's??

Are the ones that use a belt loop OWB's? I am talking about strong side "hip" holsters in both cases.. "*WB" assumes waist band/hip area and not shoulder or any other location..?

Can anyone clarify?

Jim V · March 26, 2001, 08:00 PM

IWB is a holster that fits Inside the Waist Band of the trousers, under the belt. There are some that have clips to attach them to the trousers and a belt is not used. There are some holsters that are designed to fit between the belt and the trousers, a Semi-IWB, I guess.

OWB is a holster that is worn Outside the Waist Band. Some fit on belts and others have "paddles" that fit inside the trousers.

There are advantages and disavantages to all the holsters. IWB holsters take a while to get used to, the pistol can rust in hot weather due to one's sweat. They conceal well and don't "print" as much as OWB holsters.

The "paddle" holsters tend to move from where they were placed. They are easy to remove and put back on if one does not want to carry all day.

OWB holsters can "print" more than IWB holsters. They are easier to get used to wearing, they don't subject the pistol to sweat.

WB hoslters don't have to be worn on or just behind the hip, they can be worn in the small of the back (SOB hoslters), cross draw, or in front of the strong side hip.

It is false economy to buy an expensive pistol/revolver and then buy a cheap belt and holster to carry it in.

M1911 · March 26, 2001, 09:38 PM

Monkeyleg:

I've seen a few of Rosen's holsters -- looked like top notch work. I've had no direct experience with him or his holsters. But a good friend has and said that while he liked the work, he didn't like dealing with Mr. Rosen. And I'm not sure that his holsters are worth 50% more money and 50% longer wait than lots of other holster makers.

Jim said:

"WB hoslters don't have to be worn on or just behind the hip, they can be worn in the small of the back (SOB hoslters), cross draw, or in front of the strong side hip."

Just to clarify, I think what Jim means is that there are WB holsters made for different places on the waistband. A strong-side hip holster won't work in SOB or as cross-draw, because the angle would be wrong.

M1911

Cmc · March 27, 2001, 12:20 AM

Harry
all good advice ,
I use the Alessi talon plus for a gov model,This is a great holster and the link above to RF holsters has a pretty good stock in hand.
You wont regret buying this holster,It is very confortable.
I do have as mentioned above a box of junk holsters also.

sw627pc · March 27, 2001, 04:38 PM

Just one more place to look (I like them, but holsters are a very personal choice - not everybody likes the same design). I use holsters from this maker for a Combat Commander, a Kimber Ultra CDP, and my five inch N frame (627PC). Yes, an IWB holster for an N frame.

http://www.concealco.com

don't shoot it's me · March 30, 2001, 03:46 AM

check out http://www.fist-inc.com

Nice selection, lots of options and decent prices..some of these other guys charge up tp 175 bucks...a bit much for a piece of cowhide.

JimFox · March 30, 2001, 06:08 AM

Let's see if I have this right. Your Colt Commander is a bit bulky for your mode of CC. Your choice for a CC gun is a Kimber Pro Carry.

While the Kimber Pro Carry is a prettier gun, it is almost the same size as your Colt Commander. In the grip area - which is what you're having difficulty with - it is the same size.

A good holster that will (worn properly) help with the concealment of the grip would work as well with either gun. With some exceptions any holster that will work for the Commander will work for the Kimber Pro Carry.

My suggestion is that while you wait for the Kimber, shop for a really good (one that works for you) concealment holster for the Commander. If it'll work for the Commander, it'll work for the Kimber. If it won't work for the Commander, it won't work for the Kimber. (Don't forget to get a really good belt - that is almost as important as the holster - and a good holster won't work near as well without a equally good belt.)

As a skinny old geezer I had considerable difficulty with the grip printing on 1911 pattern guns. Two areas presented me with the most difficulty. With jeans (which tend to ride lower on the waist line than do "regular" pants it is difficult to find any holster that will tuck the grip in sufficiently - IWB, OWB or even cross draw. If you can find a strong side holster with slightly more cant than the standard "FBI" 15 degree cant, that will help some. Shifting the holster to the hip (instead of just fore or aft) will help, but then you tend to look like you're carrying a colostomey(Sp?) bag. The only other thing that helps with this, at least for me, is to be very, very careful about your posture, especially when bending or stooping.

The second area that presented me problems is that my waist and hips are about the same size. To solve the first problem I can switch to pants with a higher waist. That works well as it is far easier for the belt and holster to do it's work of keeping the gun (and grip) tucked in nicely against the body. Unfortunately unless I cinch the belt up until my eyes bulge the pants have a tendency to work their way right on down to my hips. Especially with a couple three pounds of gun/holster and ammo hanging on the belt. Then I'm right back to problem one, and additionally I look like I have enough room in the seat of my britches to rent storage.

I have found that lighter guns (alloy frames) help. Also shorter (especially in the grip) guns help. If you like the longer barrel of the Commander sized gun then you might consider Kimber's Compact (Commander length - almost - barrel and shorter grip.

Just my opinion. Other's mileage may vary.

March 26, 2001, 08:00 PM	#7
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	IWB is a holster that fits Inside the Waist Band of the trousers, under the belt. There are some that have clips to attach them to the trousers and a belt is not used. There are some holsters that are designed to fit between the belt and the trousers, a Semi-IWB, I guess. OWB is a holster that is worn Outside the Waist Band. Some fit on belts and others have "paddles" that fit inside the trousers. There are advantages and disavantages to all the holsters. IWB holsters take a while to get used to, the pistol can rust in hot weather due to one's sweat. They conceal well and don't "print" as much as OWB holsters. The "paddle" holsters tend to move from where they were placed. They are easy to remove and put back on if one does not want to carry all day. OWB holsters can "print" more than IWB holsters. They are easier to get used to wearing, they don't subject the pistol to sweat. WB hoslters don't have to be worn on or just behind the hip, they can be worn in the small of the back (SOB hoslters), cross draw, or in front of the strong side hip. It is false economy to buy an expensive pistol/revolver and then buy a cheap belt and holster to carry it in. __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

March 27, 2001, 04:38 PM	#10
sw627pc Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2000 Posts: 453	Just one more place to look (I like them, but holsters are a very personal choice - not everybody likes the same design). I use holsters from this maker for a Combat Commander, a Kimber Ultra CDP, and my five inch N frame (627PC). Yes, an IWB holster for an N frame. http://www.concealco.com __________________ Bob C. NRA Patron USN (Ret)

March 30, 2001, 03:46 AM	#11
don't shoot it's me Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: NY first/LA second Posts: 1,537	IWB check out http://www.fist-inc.com Nice selection, lots of options and decent prices..some of these other guys charge up tp 175 bucks...a bit much for a piece of cowhide.

March 30, 2001, 06:08 AM	#12
JimFox Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 1999 Location: Zavalla, Texas USA Posts: 430	Let's see if I have this right. Your Colt Commander is a bit bulky for your mode of CC. Your choice for a CC gun is a Kimber Pro Carry. While the Kimber Pro Carry is a prettier gun, it is almost the same size as your Colt Commander. In the grip area - which is what you're having difficulty with - it is the same size. A good holster that will (worn properly) help with the concealment of the grip would work as well with either gun. With some exceptions any holster that will work for the Commander will work for the Kimber Pro Carry. My suggestion is that while you wait for the Kimber, shop for a really good (one that works for you) concealment holster for the Commander. If it'll work for the Commander, it'll work for the Kimber. If it won't work for the Commander, it won't work for the Kimber. (Don't forget to get a really good belt - that is almost as important as the holster - and a good holster won't work near as well without a equally good belt.) As a skinny old geezer I had considerable difficulty with the grip printing on 1911 pattern guns. Two areas presented me with the most difficulty. With jeans (which tend to ride lower on the waist line than do "regular" pants it is difficult to find any holster that will tuck the grip in sufficiently - IWB, OWB or even cross draw. If you can find a strong side holster with slightly more cant than the standard "FBI" 15 degree cant, that will help some. Shifting the holster to the hip (instead of just fore or aft) will help, but then you tend to look like you're carrying a colostomey(Sp?) bag. The only other thing that helps with this, at least for me, is to be very, very careful about your posture, especially when bending or stooping. The second area that presented me problems is that my waist and hips are about the same size. To solve the first problem I can switch to pants with a higher waist. That works well as it is far easier for the belt and holster to do it's work of keeping the gun (and grip) tucked in nicely against the body. Unfortunately unless I cinch the belt up until my eyes bulge the pants have a tendency to work their way right on down to my hips. Especially with a couple three pounds of gun/holster and ammo hanging on the belt. Then I'm right back to problem one, and additionally I look like I have enough room in the seat of my britches to rent storage. I have found that lighter guns (alloy frames) help. Also shorter (especially in the grip) guns help. If you like the longer barrel of the Commander sized gun then you might consider Kimber's Compact (Commander length - almost - barrel and shorter grip. Just my opinion. Other's mileage may vary. __________________ Jim Fox

March 26, 2001, 02:26 PM	#1
Handgun Harry Member Join Date: January 4, 2001 Posts: 52	I currently only own 1 pistol. A Colt Commander 1911. It's a pretty decent sized firearm.. With my current holster (hip draw, slightly angled), the firearm is too noticeable (IMO) when I turn my upper body in the right way.. the butt of the firearms is noticeable through my jacket. I am pretty sure it's because the holster is slightly angeled.. if I got one that wasn't angled at all, it probably wouldn't stick out nearly as much.. Either way, it's a big pistol.. and I am going to buy a Kimber Pro carry for my carry weapon (now that I have my permit). That purchase is at lesat 4 months away though. Until then I was thinking about just getting a easier concealable holster for my Colt. Here's where I need a question answered. I need to know the NAME/TYPE of holster I am talking about here.. it's cross draw, and it hangs underneath your weak side arm.. the 'movie holster'.. what the heck is that type of holster called (so the shop guys know what I am talking about).. Now.. yes I know that isn't the safest way to carry.. I've heard all the lectures of cross draw vs hip draw.. but it's only short term until I get my Kimber.. until then I'd like to be able to at least carry my Colt and have it be concealable with the consideration of it's size.. I think that specific holster would be the best way to conceal the Colt..

March 26, 2001, 03:50 PM	#2
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	Are you talking about a shoulder holster? Can't help you on which one as I'm not a fan of them. For best concealment, I recommend an IWB holster. Lots of good holster makers: Lou Alessi: http://www.rfholsters.com Milt Sparks: http://www.miltsparks.com Rusty Sherrick: http://www.c-rusty.com And lots more. But yes, with almost any holster you can print if you turn the wrong way. Some print more than others. Good custom holster keep the butt of the gun in tight against your body, reducing the amount that it prints. With most any belt holster, if you bend over at the waist to pick something up, the butt of the gun will print. So instead, you bend your knees and squat down. For OWB holsters, you can get them in most any angle you want, whether FBI cant (about 15 degrees) or vertical. In terms of getting a holster quickly, good holsters come from custom holster makers who make them one at a time. The faster ones have a month or so turn around. The ones who are more backed up can take 6 months. The factory holsters (like Galco) that I have been able to order off the shelf and get quickly are the holsters that are stuck in cardboard box in my basement labeled "holsters that don't work." YMMV. M1911

March 26, 2001, 03:58 PM	#3
ArmySon Staff Alumnus Join Date: April 14, 2000 Posts: 2,926	This post really belongs in the Gear and Accessories Forum. Since I'm moving it over there, it'll be locked in this forum. Check for all your replies here: Gear and Accessories

March 26, 2001, 04:32 PM	#4
Handgun Harry Member Join Date: January 4, 2001 Posts: 52	M1911.. thanks for the tips! (bend at the knees!).. Well.. there is a custom holster shop a few miles from my place.. I checked them out last month and they said a custom holster would be about a months wait. For my 2nd pistol, I REALLY want to get a Kimber Ultra CDP.. so we're talking like a grand there.. I think spending $70-$100 and get a nice custom holster for my Colt in the meantime would be best and I don't see myself saving up a thousand dollars (or so) anytime soon to buy the CDP I want.. man.. I need two tax returns! (as long as I don't have to pay twice as much in taxes though! heh) Hey.. wanna loan me a G so I can get my CDP?? j/k -HaHa

March 26, 2001, 05:40 PM	#5
Monkeyleg Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2000 Posts: 4,625	Nobody hardly ever mentions Mitch Rosen holsters around here, probably because of the cost. Rosen does have an "Express" line, though, that's first-quality but without some of the fancy hand-tooling. I got an ARG inside the waistband holster from them, and it was in stock so there was no wait. It's taken a lot of screwing around to get my wardrobe right so that the gun doesn't show. Bending over is always going to be a problem. My local dealer has a Galco Miami Classic shoulder holster that my Kimber Pro Carry is just dying to ride in. If I wore suits more often, I could justify the $130 price tag. Dick

March 26, 2001, 05:47 PM	#6
Handgun Harry Member Join Date: January 4, 2001 Posts: 52	Ok.. excuse me for being a noob.. but.. IWB.. I've seen holsters that have a plastic peice that slip inside your pants/slacks and don't use a belt.. are these the IWB's?? Are the ones that use a belt loop OWB's? I am talking about strong side "hip" holsters in both cases.. "*WB" assumes waist band/hip area and not shoulder or any other location..? Can anyone clarify?

March 26, 2001, 09:38 PM	#8
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	Monkeyleg: I've seen a few of Rosen's holsters -- looked like top notch work. I've had no direct experience with him or his holsters. But a good friend has and said that while he liked the work, he didn't like dealing with Mr. Rosen. And I'm not sure that his holsters are worth 50% more money and 50% longer wait than lots of other holster makers. Jim said: "WB hoslters don't have to be worn on or just behind the hip, they can be worn in the small of the back (SOB hoslters), cross draw, or in front of the strong side hip." Just to clarify, I think what Jim means is that there are WB holsters made for different places on the waistband. A strong-side hip holster won't work in SOB or as cross-draw, because the angle would be wrong. M1911

March 27, 2001, 12:20 AM	#9
Cmc Member Join Date: December 25, 2000 Posts: 59	Harry all good advice , I use the Alessi talon plus for a gov model,This is a great holster and the link above to RF holsters has a pretty good stock in hand. You wont regret buying this holster,It is very confortable. I do have as mentioned above a box of junk holsters also.