Beretta 70-71: Cool?

[Model12Win]

Well thank you gang! Can anyone tell me what the "model 70S" is? I see one I am looking at but I'm not sure if it's different from the ones the Israelis used. Thanks!

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Model12Win

Can anyone tell me what the "model 70S" is? I see one I am looking at but I'm not sure if it's different from the ones the Israelis used.

The 70S was a later version tailored to comply with the 1968 GCA. It has a 3.5" barrel and short grip frame like most versions of the 71, but used a steel frame and a screw-adjustable rear sight, and was usually sold with thumbrest grips. The 71 generally had an alloy frame, a fixed rear sight, and flat grips, although Beretta sold a few of them in the late 1980s with an adjustable sight and thumbrest grips. Additionally, the 70S—being a later version—is only found with the lever safety, whereas the 71 may be found with the crossbolt.

[Model12Win]

Thanks! Is the 70S anyone better or worse than a standard 71?

[jonnyc]

They're all good....really.

Worth a look:
http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=95801

[John C]

The one question I have is to what degree are the frames interchangeable between the different calibers? The pistol was made in .22, .32, and .380. I know the .380 pistols had steel frames, versus the aluminum frames of the .22 and .32.

I'm wondering if the grips and small parts are interchangeable between pistols.

[jonnyc]

Might be able to check using the diagrams on Numrich Arms website.

[Old Stony]

Sure seems to be a lot of negative posts on this subject, and lots of recommendations for other guns.....but the Beretta's are a worthy pistol. I have an older one and it works just fine and no problems. A guy can look at every little aspect of a firearm until he finds something negative, but don't pay attention to all that. No real reason for you not to seek one out if that's what you want.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Model12Win

Is the 70S anyone better or worse than a standard 71?

It's really a matter of opinion. The 70S is slightly heavier due to the steel frame and it uses a more intricate adjustable rear sight. It also can't be had with the early crossbolt safety, if you're one of the seemingly rare folks who appreciate this oddball feature.

Originally Posted by John C

I know the .380 pistols had steel frames, versus the aluminum frames of the .22 and .32.

I can't comment on the frame question other than to recommend the same thing that jonnyc did, but FWIW the .22 and .32 variants also came with steel frames in some instances. I recommend carefully reviewing the Beretta Forum FAQ link that myself and jonnyc have posted; the variations get complicated!

[Metric]

Sure seems to be a lot of negative posts on this subject, and lots of recommendations for other guns.....but the Beretta's are a worthy pistol. I have an older one and it works just fine and no problems. A guy can look at every little aspect of a firearm until he finds something negative, but don't pay attention to all that. No real reason for you not to seek one out if that's what you want.

IMO, it's just the standard reaction to buying an older, out-of-production pistol over the current-production.

But there are excellent reasons for doing so. There is a hole in the present-day market.

You say you want excellent full-spectrum ammo reliability from standard vel. up through hyper vel? And you want a crisp SA trigger comparable to the target-type pistols? But it has to be of a size and weight you can easily carry concealed? With overall accuracy and shootability sufficient for small game at practical distances?

The answer is usually something like "dream on" or "don't we all." But they were made, and it's not even difficult or expensive to get one. You just have to know what you want.

[Bill DeShivs]

The frame sizes are the same, but they are machined inside for specific calibers. Grips and controls should interchange.

[ThomasT]

Here is a link to the book. I am on my second copy. I wore the first one out. Some will try to tell you that the Israelis never had hit squads but the second printing of the book shows the Israeli government did admit to having hit squads during the 1970s.

https://www.amazon.com/Vengeance-Tru.../dp/0743291646

I have tried to find a model 70 off and on for years but never did. You might want to consider the Bersa Thunder 22. It is close in shape and has an alloy frame with a weight around 20oz IIRC. I had one and they are good little pistols.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Semi-Auto-P...rsa+thunder+22

[Metric]

I have tried to find a model 70 off and on for years but never did. You might want to consider the Bersa Thunder 22. It is close in shape and has an alloy frame with a weight around 20oz IIRC. I had one and they are good little pistols.

Starting about a year ago, there was a big influx of surplus 71's from Israel, with a fake (but easily removed) silencer attached, which was required for import restrictions. This resulted in literally pages of "choose your favorite 71" on gunbroker, etc. -- going price for these was $250, and the availability also put downward pressure on the price of the non-surplus examples. 2016 was a great time time buy.

There is still a reasonable (but much smaller) selection on gunbroker, but the typical price is now in the low-300's if you want to "pick your favorite," but one can still find very sub-300 prices for a generic surplus copy.

Condition is typically carried a lot, shot a little (my own experience), which means a fairly beat-up finish, but a shiny bore and a tight fit. IMO, they make a great cerakote project -- I will prob. have another one done in January.

[Stargater53]

The Beretta 70S in .22LR is an outstanding pistol, and yes, the Israelis have used the 70S as part of its undercover and assasination ops (as well as the Ruger autos). People very seriously underestimate the .22LR's leathality, accuracy, reliability and stopping power. Both pistols can put a lot of lead in the air in a very short period of time, and the ATF museum in Washington used to show how a Ruger could be situated in a briefcase and be used covertly.

People in the spook business (as well as most country bumpkins) also know that even if a .22LR doesn't put you down immediately -- and many times it does -- just being shot with one is enough to keep even the most skilled surgeon from saving your life.

As for the gun itself, the Beretta is superb. Mine had a little bit of recurring rust on one side, though the gun has barely been used. So I had it hard chromed at Majovsky's and test fired it to ensure the tolerances had not been affected (they hadn't). Now it's been cleaned and is sitting in the safe because I live in a state with few ranges or places to shoot. But if I were to go walking in the woods, it would be one of my first choices of guns I'd carry. It's astoundingly fast and ultra-reliable.

Get one.

[Model12Win]

Thanks! So just out of curiosity, the Israelis carried the steel-framed 70S model with the adjustable rear sight? In addition to the model 71?

Just interested in these gun's histories. I am probably going to be seeking one out in the near future.

[ThomasT]

Hey Metric this thread did cause me to check GB for model 70s and there are two listed. One with the suppressor and one with the suppresor removed and the barrel threaded. Both in the mid to upper $300 range. But I can wait. I like the Bersa I linked to just as well.

Star thats a pretty gun. I know why the OP likes them. I have always been a fan of the 22LR for SD. My uncle was a cop and he had a high respect for them. He was also a homicide dick and saw lots of people that had been shot. When I asked about 22s he said "those are bad mothers". Just a couple of issues ago the American rifleman had an article about the Colt Woodsman guns and it started off with a writer talking about the deadliness of the 22 round.

The smallest 22 I have is an Iver Johnson TP-22. Sort of a copy of the Walther TP 22. All the rest are ruger autos. But I would never feel undergunned with my Ruger standard model 4.5" barreled gun. And it points so well. I have made some amazing snap shots with that gun. Everyone should have a 22 auto of some sort.

I really want one of the new Ruger SR22s with a threaded barrel. I just might have to get a suppressor to go along with it.

[ThomasT]

Model12 I do not remember them specifying which model was carried. Its really not important. They all shoot the same ammo. And they aquired their guns from an underground source. They were trained on the model 70 and then bought them on the black market once in the field.

Buy the book I linked to. It is a very good read and a hell of a lot better than the movie "Munich" that was based on the book. Thats why I am on my second copy. And its not just the hunt but when one of the Israeli operators decided he had had enough of the spy game and wanted out and how he was screwed out of the money he earned by the Mossad. Get the book. Then get the gun.

[Metric]

Hey Metric this thread did cause me to check GB for model 70s and there are two listed. One with the suppressor and one with the suppresor removed and the barrel threaded. Both in the mid to upper $300 range. But I can wait. I like the Bersa I linked to just as well.

If you searched for the 70 in particular, there will not be too many, but I count eleven 71's on GB at the moment, with two of them (currently) under $300.

[PolarFBear]

I have followed this thread with interest. But, I fail to see a real difference between a Model 21 and this 70 series. I don't see a lot of difference other than the tip up barrel. What make the 70 series so special? Or for that matter the comparable Taurus .22. I qualified S.C. CC firing the 50 round course with no trouble. Thanks.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by PolarFBear

...I fail to see a real difference between a Model 21 and this 70 series. I don't see a lot of difference other than the tip up barrel. What make the 70 series so special?

Short answer: The 70 series is a small holster gun made for precision shooting, whereas the 21 is a "mouse gun" designed primarily for deep concealment.

Longer answer: The 70 series is a substantially larger pistol—about Walther PP size. Its barrel is positively locked in place for superior accuracy. It has a claw extractor for extraction reliability and easier clearance of misfires. It uses a coil recoil spring for greater durability. It's SAO and has significantly larger sights, even in the early fixed-sight versions. Lastly, .32 and .380 versions were made.

The 21 is best characterized as a DA/SA update of the SAO 950 Jetfire. I own a Jetfire and enjoy shooting it, but the 70 series is really a different class of gun. It kinda splits the difference between the 950 Jetfire and the more full-featured but even larger 81 series.

[PolarFBear]

Thanks. What you have described is not evident by looking at the pictures. I can now appreciate the internal and size differences.