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Old October 14, 2011, 12:23 AM   #26
Art Eatman
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I've always posted that doping the wind is the Real Deal when out beyond 300 yards. Whatever your bullet velocity, I figure you're supposed to have done some trials in different wind conditions, just to see what happens.

I've always used the sight-in of 2" high at 100 yards in my '06. Mostly, 150-grain Sierras. That's about dead-on at 200 and about six inches low at 300. Two feet low at 400, roughly, and about four feet low at 500. I checked my notions at my 500-yard range. I guesstimated about two feet of windage, and held a guesstimated four feet above center of the 22" steel plate. First shot was about six inches low at 5:30; second shot was one inch low at 6:00. In a later session, sighted in for that 500 yards, I got 0.8-MOA groups. Did a ten-shot string, sorta quick-like; two called flyers and eight hits in six inches. Close enough for government work.

That same load, I held a few inches of daylight above a deer's back and the bullet entered about eighteen inches down. I figure I guesstimated 350 yards, pretty close by good-eye. Calm day.

I dunno. You go to screwing around with these old guns for thirty or so years, and you sorta get all married up to one where it's a sorta Zen thing about stuff just feeling right. I set up my "doings" such that I don't have to think...

Anyhow, it's no big deal. Anybody who wants to, can. Just takes a bit of practice.
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Old October 14, 2011, 01:33 AM   #27
BigBrute
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And the military has the. 308 for the aforementioned reasons of predictable ballistics, lesser drop, etc. The fact that they switched FROM the '06 to the .308 says something. I know, it's not exactly definitive and there were other factors involved, but still...

In any case, the point I was trying to make was simply that the .308 round was a more inherently predictable round. With proper skill and understanding of the round, either is more than capable of doing the job.


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Last edited by BigBrute; October 14, 2011 at 01:43 AM.
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Old October 14, 2011, 06:00 AM   #28
MLeake
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The switch was due to shorter action length, faster resultant actions for bolts and semi-autos, and reduction in weight of bulk ammo. The switch was not originally for ballistics; the original 7.62NATO mimicked the performance of the 1950's vintage .30-06.

Some people claim better theoretical accuracy with the .308 over the .30-06. Friend of mine who was on the All-Navy rifle team prefers the .300WM for long range shooting, so go figure.
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Old October 14, 2011, 06:20 AM   #29
black mamba
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BigBrute, the 30-06 is just a longer 308 (actually the 308 is a shortened 30-06), so with any bullet the '06 will give 100-200 fps more velocity for less drop at any range than the 308.

I would shoot the Hornady Superformance .308 Win. 165 gr SST load in the AR-10 because of the better scope. Here is the exterior ballistics table with a Point Blank Range (PBR) sighted to never be more than 3" above center.

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Old October 14, 2011, 10:18 AM   #30
Art Eatman
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The .308 was one of the first, if not the first, that was computer-aided in its design. A prime criterion was for it to be nearly-equal to the .30-'06, but with a somewhat smaller case (shorter receiver) and a shorter barrel. The target was a barrel length of 18" to 20". The '06, being slightly over-bore, works best with a barrel length of 24" to 26".

At the time of introduction of the .308, the common factory loading was for 55,000 psi. At that time, the '06 was usually loaded to 49,000 psi. Thus, equality of performance with a 150-grain bullet. Since 55,000 psi is quite safe in modern rifles, a handloader with a 26" '06 can easily surpass the .308 in all bullet weights. This is particularly true with bullets of 180-grains and more.

It has been claimed that the case proportion of the .308 makes it burn powder more efficiently than the '06. I see as verification of this the results in performance of the WSM cartridges, regarding velocity vs. powder weights in comparison with regular magnum cartridges.

However, my father always loaded the 150-grain Hornady Spire Point to GI specs with 4895, nowadays regarded as a mild load. He never told the stories about way-over-yonder deer; others did, usually beginning, "That damned Willie, I couldn't hardly see that buck, and he broke its neck!"

IOW, knowing your rifle's performance is what's important, not charts and tables and worries about flat-shooting. Skill comes with practice.
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Old October 14, 2011, 11:25 AM   #31
jackmon
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drop problem

See the nikon scope is a bdc. It is sighted to 100 yards. There is a secondary reticle sighted to 200. And three below that sighted to 3,4,500 yards repectivly. So Im not terribly worried about drop.
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