July 1, 2009, 03:05 PM | #1 |
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Getting an FFL...
So I just ordered my paperwork from the ATF to get my FFL and I was wondering if anyone else had recently gone through this process. I'm trying to open up a gun store when I get home from Iraq (cuz dammit I earned that right no matter if we live in a country slowly turning socialist) and I've already told my local sheriff ( Crime Bill of 1994) and scoped out a brick and mortar store. However, I've heard the ATF can be a pain in the ass with these applications. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?
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July 1, 2009, 03:19 PM | #2 |
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Get your zoning figured out and then your local business and tax licenses. That's about it. Pretty easy, ATF was nothing less than completely professional during and after my process.
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July 1, 2009, 03:21 PM | #3 |
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I have an LLC it was fairly easy i just used legal zoom. Good luck with the business and good job in Iraq!
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July 1, 2009, 03:23 PM | #4 |
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I recommend a lawyer setup your business structure. Talk to an accountant first before you make a decision on what structure. Also look into limits of officers on your state charter. In MI, corporations can't be owned by a single individual but LLCs can and are treated as a corporation.
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July 4, 2009, 07:09 AM | #5 |
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Thank you.........
for your service in Iraq!
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July 4, 2009, 10:19 AM | #6 |
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Setup your business first, then submitt your application in your business's name. The ATF will check all local laws to make sure that you can run a firearms business out of your location. Yes you will need a location to put on the application. My county did not issue me a business license or home occupancy permit (I am planning on having a shop attached to my house), until after I received my FFL. The ATF gives you 30 days to get all local licenses after they issue your license.
Also as soon as your business is setup get FEIN # from the Feds, this will make a lot of other things much easier to do. You can get setup with your department of sales tax, and your county before you are actually setup to do business. Both my county and the state understood that I could not conduct business until I had my FFL. Just try and get everything in regards to license's and doing business rolling before your FFL arrives. As far as the ATF is concerned, the agent that came to see me was very cool, and very helpful. Take notes and listen to what they are telling you, also make a list of quetions you want to ask for the meeting and make sure you ask them. My meeting was about 4 hours long. Good luck.
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July 4, 2009, 10:30 AM | #7 |
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One inconvenience for me when I opened a stand alone gunshop was that the ATF required I have the building secured prior to issuance of license for the purpose of inspection. This meant I had to lease a spot, initiate utilities, secure insurance before I even knew I would be approved. With deposits and first months I was well invested for at least 2 months before I could even think of making any money. It was as though the cards were purposely stacked against the small dealer.
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July 4, 2009, 10:42 AM | #8 |
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The ATF required no such thing from me.
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July 4, 2009, 12:11 PM | #9 | ||
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I doubt ATF will issue you an FFL for property you do not own or have under lease. There is no ATF requirement to have utilities or insurance at ANY licensed premises. You could have one of these as your licensed premises in the back yard http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...egoryID=524467 Quote:
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Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
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July 4, 2009, 02:07 PM | #10 | |
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July 4, 2009, 02:18 PM | #11 | |
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July 4, 2009, 02:45 PM | #12 | |
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July 4, 2009, 02:55 PM | #13 | |
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July 4, 2009, 03:59 PM | #14 | |
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The Clinton era you are referring to is when a copy of the application needed to be sent to the CLEO is the jurisdiction where that business was to be located. If it would violate any zoning laws, it was not issued. That is nothing new, but a number of municipalities changed zoning to exclude firearms businesses from a zoned residential lot. I'd really like to see directly where the statute issuing the FFL stated a commercial address was a federal requirement. Two of my uncles obtained FFLs during Clinton's administration and both were zoned residential and were run from their home address. |
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July 4, 2009, 04:16 PM | #15 | ||||
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http://gunowners.org/op9509.htm Quote:
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July 4, 2009, 04:30 PM | #16 |
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Yeah, and legally the ATF can't inspect the same FFL more than once per year per license they hold. ATF policy is trumped by federal law. Know the law. Keep the ATF where they need to be.
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July 4, 2009, 05:10 PM | #17 | |
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July 4, 2009, 05:10 PM | #18 |
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Blaming "the Clinton era" for ATF compliance issues is misguided. I've heard for the last ten years of the "no kitchen table FFL's" rule- it is a complete LIE. I used to believe it based on the number of pre Clinton FFL's compared to the present. I did a little research and discovered that the "no kitchen table FFL's" is a MYTH. Not only is my kitchen not big enough to have a table, I lease my townhome which is my licensed premises. My ATF Industry Operations Investigator had absolutely no problem with me operating a business from a rental property.
Very few (less than 1%) of FFL's have had their license revoked or not renewed due to noncompliance with ATF regs. NOT 2/3rds. The vast majority of FFL's that were not renewed (during the Clinton era) were due to noncompliance with local or state laws- not federal law or ATF whims. During the Clinton era the ATF began to require dealers to comply with STATE, COUNTY & LOCAL laws regarding a lawful business in that location. Many FFL's were not actually "in the business", they had an FFL for personal use and made little or no effort to operate a business as their application required. Additionally, many FFL's were issued to dealers who were not in compliance with state, county and local laws. Many never applied for state tax certificates or were in an area that prohibits "home" businesses. NONE of that is the fault of ATF- it's the fault of the state, city or county you live in. Being ignorant of the law is our own fault. If an ATF agent/investigator tells me I need a new doormat- he better F#$%%^ show me the applicable law. If I accept his opinion I'm the idiot. I have fewer problems with ATF than my own brethren dealers- not a week goes by that I don't have some guy SWEAR that an emailed FFL copy isn't allowed by law.
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Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
July 4, 2009, 05:32 PM | #19 | |
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http://www.vpc.org/studies/dealers07.pdf Not revoked, frightened into voluntary surrender. Hey I get along fine with the ATF inspectors...now. But way back then there was a whole different attitude.The US did in fact lose 2/3's of it's FFL dealers during the Clinton administration via intimidation. Primarily consisting of kitchen table dealers.
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July 4, 2009, 05:40 PM | #20 | |
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July 4, 2009, 05:53 PM | #21 | |
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Whatever the tact, the intent was to remove as many FFL's from the roles as possible and the ATF was (willingly) used as the implement. This massive decline began with the Clinton administration.
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July 4, 2009, 06:08 PM | #22 |
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We are not debating that. I think we are all in agreement. The method they chose was to enforce existing laws. That's what they do is enforce laws. We can't pick and choose which ones to enforce or not. Perhaps if we change the laws to benefit us, they have less to enforce.
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July 4, 2009, 06:25 PM | #23 | |
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July 4, 2009, 06:35 PM | #24 |
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When I opened mine they came and checked the building out.
It wasn't even the building that I ended up renting, I think they just wanted a face to face before saying yes. He made me sign some papperwork in the parking lot also. We didn't even go into the building. I didn’t use a lawyer for anything either. Set up an LLC with the County and got my county permit and insurance and off I went. Good luck.
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July 4, 2009, 10:59 PM | #25 | |
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