carrying the percussion revolver

[Hawg]

In MS a convicted felon can't even own one.

Mississippi Code Annotated Section 97-37-5 provides:
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person who has been convicted of a felony under the laws of this state, any other state, or of the United States to possess any firearm or any bowie knife, dirk knife, butcher knife, switchblade knife, metallic knuckles, blackjack, or any muffler or silencer for any firearm unless such person has received a pardon for such felony, has received a relief from disability pursuant to Section 925(c) of Title 18 of the U.S. Code, or has received a certificate of rehabilitation pursuant to subsection (3) of this section.

The above quoted statute prohibits a convicted felon from possessing of any “firearm” among other weapons. Black’s Law Dictionary defines “firearm” as:
An instrument used in the propulsion of shot, shell or bullets by the action of gunpowder exploded within it. A weapon which acts by force of gunpowder. The word comprises all sorts of guns, fowling pieces, blunderbusses, pistols, etc.
It is the opinion of this office that a muzzle loading rifle or a muzzle loading shotgun is within the meaning of the term “firearm” as used in Mississippi Code Annotated Section 97-37-5. However, the statute does not include weapons such as a traditional bow and arrow or crossbow. Therefore, a convicted felon may possess (and consequently hunt with) a traditional bow and arrow or crossbow.

[Stormson]

Im not a con either... And at some point I may well change what I carry, I just dont see any NEED to at the moment.

As far as cons go, its a non issue as far as far as Im concerned. I swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of The United States of America. Unlike most of our vaunted leaders, and police, who immediately break that same or similar oath the very first day on the job, by creating or upholding "laws" they damn well KNOW to go directly against the Constitution (which creates MOST of the "cons" in this once free nation), I actually KEPT mine. The Second Amendment to that MOST important and foundational of ALL American Law is QUITE clear. It doesnt mince words and is in no NEED of "interpretation".

SHALL NOT BE.

Pretty damn simple, aint it?

I know many cons and ex cons. Almost every one of them was imprisoned for this or that "crime" that usually boils down to "Attempting to act in a free manner, while being an American Citizen". They where all put there by people who seem to have little to no understanding of what freedom means.. Or worse, they do and simply disregard it.

The fact that these people are denied their God given RIGHTS after having pulled "their time" and "paying there debt to society", is simply one MORE illegal and underhanded blow to not ONLY their freedoms, but to the freedoms of EVERY man, woman and child who walks Gods green Earth.

This doesnt man that Im a FOOL. Certainly, there ARE some I would WISH where not armed. Some that I would be VERY careful around if they where. No, it doesnt mean that Im a fool... Just that I prefer the dangers of FREEDOM over the peaceful "security" of servitude.

[bedbugbilly]

+1 to James K . . . .

While a lot of folks may think it to be adequate to carry a C & B . . . I doubt you'll stack up to a perp carrying a semi auto . . . no matter how good you think you are with your "hog leg". And for those of you that do carry a C & B . . be aware of the conceal or open carry laws of your state as James points out . . .

I've been shooting BP for over fifty years but I personally, am not going to put my life or that of a family member in jeopardy by carrying a BP revolver - whether it be a front stuffer or a cartridge gun and think that I would be any match for a perp armed with a semi auto or a revolver.

For those of you that do carry a BP wheelmen . . . I'd be curious to know how much practice you put in as far as SD shooting practice? And remember . . . what works on the range isn't necessarily what is going to happen in a real life SD situation. And . . how well do you think you'll react in a real SD situation when the adrenaline is flowing through your veins and you are possibly being shot at, attacked with a knife or more than one perp coming at you from two different directions? AS someone who HAS been shot at . . I can assure you that you do not know how your will react nor will you always react the same.

I used to carry a J frame Smith Model 36 and feel adequate with five rounds . . no more. I have switched to a 9mm semi auto with spare magazines and am even considering a step up to 45ACP. The first step in SD training is to learn to avoid any SD situation if possible . . . but things do happen no matter how careful a person is or where they are. On the farm or hiking? That's a different story as a SAA would be adequate for snakes and critters . . . . unless you are where there are the two legged kind that might be an issue.

The "romance" of carrying a SAA, whether it be C & B or similar is fine . . . if you live in a storybook fantasy . . . personally, I prefer to live in "reality" and the "reality" of it is that things have changed drastically over the past few years and I much prefer to be CCW that at least gives me a fighting chance when facing one or more individuals intent on doing me harm. YMMV

[Model12Win]

It boils down to:

1. If you are a felon and/or live somewhere where modern firearms are banned, cap and ball revolvers beat a sharp stick or a rock.

2. If you don't fall into the above categories, grow up and get a real gun for defense. Your life is worth more than that, same for your family.

[Stormson]

On the farm or hiking? That's a different story as a SAA would be adequate for snakes and critters . . . . unless you are where there are the two legged kind that might be an issue.

And there is THAT.

I came to this out of the way place, where MOST of my time is spent away from any towns, from a MUCH larger place... And I didnt get into C&B til I got out here. When I was in that city I always carried much more firepower, just out here on the fringes of the wild I simply dont feel the NEED. Biggest issue here on two legs is going to be some meth head or pill junkie who already SOLD his cheap little pot metal semi auto in order to buy dope... Damn fool, but thats his choice I guess.

What may work for me, may NOT work for others... And what other may feel they need may not be necessary for me... To each his own.

[Rachen]

Remember guys, there are many kinds of "defensive situations".

If you are awakened at 3AM by someone trying to break in the door, and you have a caplock double barrel shotgun sitting by the bed, you can reasonably get the drop on whoever is trying to enter and fumigate them right quick when they do enter.

If you live a high-risk lifestyle and you happen to seriously cross the line of certain bikers or wiseguys, then a Dillon Aero mounted on both shoulders is not gonna help you, because the attack that ends you is most likely going to be coming from behind or when you are shopping with your friends and loved ones.

Negating the speed of draw, getting the target lock etc... since everyone's skill level differs. If you need more than 6 rounds of cap and ball or cartridge, or more than one magazine-full of ammo in a regular civilian defensive situation, then you might want to reconsider your extracurricular activities.

Whatever you choose to use to defend yourself and your loved ones, the most important thing is to know how to use it. If you choose to carry a cap and ball, and you don't practice with it, carelessly load them, not bother to sleeve the nipples, etc, then you are set up for certain failure. Same thing goes for those who purchase $3000 safequeens and neglect to actually familiarize themselves with their awesome master blaster.

During the Xinjiang Riots of 2009, a shopkeeper in Urumqi used a 60-lb recurve bow to kill 8 terrorists armed with machetes. He positioned himself behind a storage cabinet and fired at anyone who crossed the threshold of the store's entrance. Within 1 minute he had a considerable body count right at the front door. Being in a frontier city and not a criminal he had access to hunting rifles, and he had one, but it was locked in a closet upstairs.

[45 Dragoon]

Well said Stormson.
I'd rather live free myself. (Even if that means having to watch folks a little closer than I already do!)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

[Rachen]

and Johnny Jihad rolls in with the yapple-dapple gang foling close behind yelling "Allah-uh-Akbar",

In that case, the CORRECT procedure for dealing with that, no matter if you have a hunting bow or a fully optic-equipped AR-15, is to find a hiding place with a good view of the area and preferably some hard cover, and start dropping dirtbags with AIMED SHOTS, while keeping yourself as low key as possible.

Remember what Texas Ranger Cpt. Jack Hayes did when he was separated from his band by almost 80 mounted Comanches. He wedged himself into a pressure crack within a boulder and fired at what he presumed were the leaders of the Comanche war band. He got almost 15 of them before the rest of the Comanches realized that they were in some serious trouble and that they were not dealing with regular Joe Farmer who froze in terror as soon as he hears a war whoop. Had Hayes burst out into the open whooping and hollering and firing his Patersons like crazy, chances are that he would have missed most, if not all of his shots, and the Comanches would have ridden back to camp with his scalp on a lance. BUT HE DIDN'T. He made the best tactical decision that could have ever been made, hid, and made ALL of his rounds count. Captain Hayes may have been one of the most legendary gunfighters of the Old West and he ain't done so by strolling down Main Street and blasting hats back and forth between rooftops.

The Chinese shopkeeper I mentioned in a previous post in this same thread did exactly the same thing when faced with superior numbers and opponents who were ready to die for an extreme ideology. Based on what was revealed during the Colorado theater and Pulse shootings, someone armed with a Thompson Center Contender and chewing a mouthful of pizza could have put an end to the nonsense. Both shooters were EXPECTING NO RESISTANCE and literally walked around reloading at a leisurely pace and not even remotely thinking about concealment or cover. They would have been FAR EASIER to deal with than a tweaked out urban junkie who have singled you out for an individual gunpoint mugging because he feels the need for his next fix.

[brazosdave]

Model 12, that is the kind of statements that make gun people their own worst enemies. Berating others for their particular choice of arm as if you are some sort of authority figure does nothing but cause division, so congrats for helping out the anti-gunners. Since everyone here is still posting, I assume that their arms have been sufficient to keep them alive.

[jspappap]

Well Spoken Brazosdave.

[swathdiver]

A cap and ball sixgun in the right hands will stop any liquor store hold up and would have put down ALL of the mass shooters this nation has been subjected to as of late.

If you have to reload, you need more than a pistol. I can count on one hand the times read about where a person needed to reload to stop an attacker. It is even rare for a policeman to get into a gun battle where reloading is necessary.

Federal Law and many states like Florida and Texas, allow convicted felons to keep and bear antique firearms. However, any restriction on the right to keep and bear arms is not Constitutional and therefore un-American.

Mine own sixguns are perfectly reliable and would not feel insecure with them out and about.

[foolzrushn]

I personally, am not going to put my life or that of a family member in jeopardy by carrying a BP revolver

a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me

Possibly a bit of contradiction here Billy, what would Hickok say?

As I have said, I would prefer concealed carry with a small auto because it's small, no extra mags. But if I were to open carry, and had addressed the 'cap sucking' to my satisfaction, I would not worry about a BP pistol with only six shots or having to cock the hammer. My only remaining concern would be the telltale cloud of smoke which would tell the attacker where I was. But that wouldn't matter if the attacker was already attacking me specifically.

I don't see the action of the BP replica being any less reliable than the autos. This varies for each pistol no matter the type of action. Each has its weaknesses.

Some feel that you can't have enough firepower. They wouldn't take a knife to a gunfight, fight an AR with a BP pistol, fight a tank with an AR. Well where do you feel comfortable? You have to make a reasonable assessment of what you think you will encounter. If grenades were legal would you need to carry them to feel secure? I feel if I couldn't get it done with six, then 150 wouldn't matter. It's where you put those six.

Many posts seem to just repeat what they think.... without saying specifically why they think it. So be it. I just thought that the reasons why would be interesting. Anyway we seem to have drifted into felons rights, which has nothing to do with the original post.

[drobs]

Here's another issue...
Unless you're going to CCW a Colt Walker, most .44 cal cap & ball revolvers have a muzzle velocity and weight of ball = to a poor lead round nose 38 special loading.

I don't know anyone that seriously recommends 38spl LRN for self defense.

[brazosdave]

And here we hear from the "street howitzer" crowd.

[Hawg]

I don't know anyone that seriously recommends 38spl LRN for self defense.

I'd prefer it over a 9MM.

[maillemaker]

Let's be honest here - most of this fantasy is being fueled by nostalgia.

Technology progresses. Even if everything else was equal, and it isn't, just the fact of them being nearly all single-action puts them at a disadvantage to modern firearms. If you are going to carry, there are, without question, firearms that are quantitatively superior in function, safety, power, and capacity to any 19th century revolver.

Now to contradict myself, I don't think you actually need that much firepower for a self-defense weapon. Most people are highly unlikely to ever be a victim of violent crime. So you will probably never need your weapon in the first place. So why not carry something anemic and small like the LCP? Also, if you watch any of the self-defense videos on YouTube, 99% of the time as soon as shots are fired the perpetrator [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]s themselves and runs for the exit full-bore, often running through furniture and glass doors in an attempt to get away. Protracted gun battles are not the norm.

Still, if I was going to bother carrying, I'd be torn between an LCP that can be carried in southern heat in an external cell-phone-looking holster by Sneaky Pete or just getting a modern semi-automatic like the Springfield Armoury XDM that in 9mm can hold 19 rounds of ammo.

[rodwhaincamo]

@drobs:

That's not exactly true. It depends on the powder used, as well as the projectile. If you were to use Swiss, Olde Eynsford, Triple 7, or the pellets from Hodgdon's you .45 ACP performance with a conical.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_dwo2nThA

Looking at just the results from the 5.5" model you see that the Lee conical produces 388 ft/lbs and the Kaido bullet produces 440 ft/lbs, and that is with reduced loads which isn't necessary for safety as some erroneously believe.

But when standard Goex, as well as many other powders, is used the energy figures plummet with a ball producing, as you said, .38 Spl performance. Change the projectile to a bullet and it gives hot +P performance.

[brazosdave]

for Pete's sake, if we talk ballistics, .357 trumps .45 acp all day long. But if you look at anecdotal evidence, even though conicals are supposed to be more deadly, round balls often times were given the nod by men who used them in combat. My deal stands the same: If you are comfortable and shoot well with any particular weapon, percussion, cartridge revolver, or automatic, carry it. There is no magic caliber, plenty of Iraqis ran around after being hit with a full magazine of 9mm, as well as plenty of people have instantly died being shot by a .32. Shot placement, as well as the individual you are shootings pain threshold, carries the day. Otherwise, everyone who is not packing at least a .454 Casull or above is, in the opinion of some here, an idiot.

[James K]

"I know many cons and ex cons. Almost every one of them was imprisoned for this or that "crime" that usually boils down to "Attempting to act in a free manner, while being an American Citizen". They where all put there by people who seem to have little to no understanding of what freedom means.. Or worse, they do and simply disregard it."

I don't know where Stormson lives or what his job is, but if almost everyone who is in jail in his area did nothing but be "an American Citizen", he must be in some kind of paradise, or else he considers rape, murder, assault, robbery, etc., as "attempting to act in a free manner."

I also have met many "cons" and I guarantee most of them were not a bit interested any "freedom", except getting out of prison so they could get right back to beating and killing and selling dope to school kids for their own pleasure and profit. (I grant that some used checkbooks and fraud rather than guns to browbeat and rob, but that doesn't make them good citizens.)

Jim

[maillemaker]

There is no magic caliber, plenty of Iraqis ran around after being hit with a full magazine of 9mm, as well as plenty of people have instantly died being shot by a .32. Shot placement, as well as the individual you are shootings pain threshold, carries the day.

I think the point here is that this is not an either-or situation.

Yes, shot placement trumps all, but there is no reason to short yourself on kinetic energy. You can have both. And while you can't count on shot placement to be consistent, you *can* count on kinetic energy to be consistent.

That's why I say, if you're going to carry, carry the biggest thing you can get away with carrying.

Steve

[swathdiver]

Drobs: In its first year of introduction the .38 Special was a black powder load. With a Lead Round Nose bullet and a full case of black powder, that cartridge was more powerful with less pressure than most modern +P loadings.

A soft lead round nose is much preferred for man-stopping than a jacketed hollow-point, when used from a revolver.

It has been my experience that 1 in 5 people convicted of a crime are innocent of the charges brought against them. As this nations morality waxes worse, the percentage will continue to rise.

If a soft lead .44 caliber Kaido Conical can drop a 300 pound wild boar dead in its tracks, it's more than adequate to stop some crackhead dead in his tracks who was intent on doing you and your loved ones harm.

[Bishop Creek]

To swathdiver:

[Rachen]

Unless you're going to CCW a Colt Walker, most .44 cal cap & ball revolvers have a muzzle velocity and weight of ball = to a poor lead round nose 38 special loading.

That is definitely an understatement of these types of guns. An 1860 Army or '58 Remington loaded with a full charge pushes a 140 grainer up to at least 1000 fps, and more with powders such as good Pyrodex P or Swiss. Do the calculations, and that is well within the .45 ACP to medium .357 Magnum territory. Many desperados and outlaws, as well as a great many good men, have found their departure at the wrong end of a cap and ball Colt or Remington LONG before cartridge guns came into general use.

And the larger caliber single shot pistols? Don't even get me started on those. They may be cumbersome, and slow loading, but a .50 .58 or .63 roundball out of a flintlock or wheel-lock cavalry handgun inflict a level of damage that will make the service 9mms, 45s, and .357s seem like peashooters. During the Siege of Vienna in 1683, when the Ottoman army under the leadership of Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa reached their highwater-mark in Europe, the city was saved by a charge of the Polish Winged Hussars. The Hussars' sabers and lances may have been a terrifying sight for the Muslim attackers, but it was the large caliber wheel-lock pistols that seemed to be the favorite of the Polish riders. There are many accounts of the incredible damage that the balls done to the many, many unfortunate Turks who got the receiving end of these. Stories of heads removed cleanly, limbs blown into shattered pieces, rotting corpses on the field with their backs blown out completely. The balls made complete pass-thrus on many accounts, going through even the multiple heavy coats of chainmail and scales worn by some of the Sipahi, elite heavy cavalry of the Turks.

A Youtube user by the name of Iraqveteran88 made a video showing what a matchlock musket did to a ballistic torso AND a stack of wooden baffles. It was incredible. The musket used was the same type that the Pilgrims would have carried when they landed here.

Yes, shot placement trumps all

Yes and yes indeed. It is VERY FORTUNATE that many, if not most violent criminals cannot aim at all, or are very poor at it. If they are proficient shots, the great multitude of police officers fired upon, or injured by gunfire on duty may turn into much sadder conclusions. Just this week in NYC, two incidents where shots were fired at police. No officers were hit and the perp was dead in one incident. The other perp, (two unrelated cases), was found in his homie's apartment hiding under the bed with a stolen and defaced .22. Multiple arrests in the histories of both.

That's why I say, if you're going to carry, carry the biggest thing you can get away with carrying.

CCW weapon of choice is a Pietta 1858 here. I have no doubts that it will be a one-shot instant stopper with a Kaido 240-grain conical and 30 grains of FFFg. That is one massive round with over 400-foot pounds of stopping power. Plus "Old Reliable" is much more accepted even in places where guns are normally frowned upon. I've had even ardent anti-gunners give me positive remarks about my revolver when I am carrying in an Open Carry state. I HAVE introduced at least FIVE former anti-gunners to the world of guns with my 1858 over the last 7 years. The 2 that I still have contact with are both pro-CCW and carry on a daily basis too.

[rodwhaincamo]

There's also a YouTube video where a fellow compares a .45 Colt HP to a ball pushed by 30 grns of weaker powder (standard Goex), and though it didn't give the same level of disruption the HP did it penetrated much, much further (well over 20") and performed very much as a .45 ACP FMJ would have, and those, though not what I'd necessarily choose, have done fairly well for the military.

And this velocity/energy level from a handgun at 15 yds is quite similar to a PRB from a rifle at 100 yds, which gives complete passthroughs nearly every time and kills quite effectively.

A ball wouldn't be my choice though as I prefer a wide meplat for hunting...

[maillemaker]

CCW weapon of choice is a Pietta 1858 here. I have no doubts that it will be a one-shot instant stopper with a Kaido 240-grain conical and 30 grains of FFFg. That is one massive round with over 400-foot pounds of stopping power.

Again, my only point is if you're going to carry a full-sized handgun, why would you settle for a full-sized handgun with only 6-shots capable of 400 ft-lbs of energy when you could carry a full-sized handgun with 3 times as much ammunition carrying capacity and about the same energy (more with +P ammo)?

It is VERY FORTUNATE that many, if not most violent criminals cannot aim at all, or are very poor at it. If they are proficient shots, the great multitude of police officers fired upon, or injured by gunfire on duty may turn into much sadder conclusions.

However, good guys, including the police, are also very poor at it. I think the police have a hit rate of about 18%. So with a 6-shooter, with an 18% hit rate that means you will miss 5 out of 6 shots.

Again, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I don't carry, and I don't really care what most people decide to carry because most people will never be involved in violent crime anyway. I just think most of this is driven by nostalgia and not practicality. To paraphrase Nathan Bedford Forrest, "Get there the firstest with the mostest". A modern semi-automatic handgun is going to give you 15-20 rounds of reliable, quickly reloadable ammunition that goes a long way to bringing "the mostest".

Steve