Question for Chris B...M1 Refinishing....

hans4811 · March 5, 2010, 11:28 AM

Hey Chris,
Was looking around the forums for some info on refinishing a stock when I came across a pic of your M1...

M1black-1.jpg

....VERY NICE !!

I just ordered an M1 from CMP, a Korean War vintage model, and was wondering how you did yours exactly. I've read the info from CMP, and honestly, I was more confused after that.

You said 'I did a lot of work to the buttstock, but it has just a boiled linseed oil finish'....what exactly did u do ? If you don't mind and got the time, could you explain with a little detail how you did that ? That's exactly what I was shooting for, sorry bad unintentional pun, and don't have any experience with a stock, or a rifle for that matter....mostly a hand-gunner! Was this your first one ?

Thanks so much....Ken

Chris_B · March 5, 2010, 07:26 PM

Hi Ken. Yes, this was my first time. If I had it to do over again, I would consider this product:

http://www.fairtrimmers.com/index.html

Congratulations on buying an M1. I'm sure you'll love it

In case any confusion over it exists, the stocks were not stained originally, although I did end up staining mine

My buttstock actually needed a lot of work, including sanding. I did not want to go that route but that's how it ended up.

I tried cleaning with linseed oil. Then I tried isopropyl alcohol. Then I tried isopropyl and a scotch-brite pad. Then I tried mineral spirits...nothing made that piece of wood turn from dog-doo brown to walnut brown.

I did not want to get aggressive; you lose the original color, the so-called 'arsenal red' if you go nuts. That color was achieved through years and decades of exposure to sweat, sun, dirt, gun oils, cleaning solvents, etc. The original finish was done through a dipping process; for my rifle's time, this was a linseed oil dip. Also in that dip tank was rust, dead bugs, sweat, dirt, etc etc. The 'arsenal red' is at least partly due to oxidation of impurities in the finish. So I did not want to mess with that! But nothing took the brownish/blackish stains off. It was like tar mixed with glue that had gone into the pores of the wood.

After 3 or 4 days of no results, I carefully taped over the cartouches (I only had a rebuild stamp from Rock Island Arsenal and a post-war Circled P) and I started to sand. I was very careful not to round over any of the machined edges too much; I just hit them enough to knock off anything that might splinter. I started with 100 grit, gently (if you can use 100gr gently), and then I went to 240 and then 400. I then used very fine scotch-brite. I have since learned that the original texture was very near to that produced from 150 grit sandpaper; wear smoothed the stocks out

Since I had removed the 'arsenal red' finish along with the blackish mess, I started thinking about stains. In the meantime, I used a hand-held iron and a cloth to steam out some- but hardly all- of the dents and gouges in the wood. I stayed clear of cartouches so as not to raise them. You place a damp cloth over the wood, and use the iron set on 'steam', 1 or 2 inches above the wood at the dent or gouge. I never would have tried this had the wood been not in need of a full refinish but I figured what the heck. It worked well (and slowly) but I restricted it to a few really ugly spots. During the process I was continually wiping down the wood with clean dry rags to remove as much moisture as possible. I then set the stock by a radiator to dry for a day

I then stained the buttstock and rear hand guard. The front hand guard is not stained but the match is pretty good; I just had to clean the front guard but the wood was a lighter walnut than I wanted so I decided to stain to match

I used Dark Walnut Minwax stain mixed with their Red Oak stain, 1 part Dark Walnut to 3 parts Red Oak. I stained three times over the course of a day, starting at about 9 am and finishing about 4 pm I used a rag, and a piece of scotch-brite, to apply the oil. I don't think that the scotch-brite mattered in retrospect. I set the stock and hand guard inside to dry by a radiator for three days. Three very, very long days

Then I rubbed them down hard with a clean rag. Lots of stain came off but I had a nice red-brown with some golden spots here and there. One more day to make sure they were really dry was spent with the wood near that radiator again

Then I oiled the wood. Just boiled linseed oil. I let that dry overnight...by the radiator. Then the rubbing and oiling every day for a week began. Then one day a week for a month. I oil it every few months now.

I feel the Minwax mix I used ended up pretty good, judging from the color of the front guard. Here's the other side of the rifle

Now, all that said: I didn't want to go that route at all. Sure it looks nice but it was a PITA in a lot of ways; I smelled like linseed oil and stain for weeks and I had stain on my hands that wouldn't come off even though I wore gloves. You probably won't have to go through the process I describe above; hopefully your stock wasn't used to mix glue and tar or something like mine was. I'd say I spent 80 hours on the wood. It was fun in a lot of ways too, but it felt like work sometimes

I have also cleaned and oiled a USGI stock for an M1 carbine, in about two hours total, with results equal to the two-week process I just told you about. I took my Pop's M1 carbine stock, and cleaned it with a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol- from the same tin that did nothing for my M1 stock in fact, and then wiped it down, and put some mineral spirits on a rag and wiped down the stock again. I put it in the sun for half an hour to dry; it was August. The stock was a light grayish color when I came back. Then, I put one coat of boiled linseed oil on it, and the color jumped out:

I let it dry overnight, rubbed it with a rag, and was done. I really preferred that two hours of effort to the 80 hours!

hans4811 · March 5, 2010, 11:08 PM

Wow, thanks for that Chris ! I had no idea...but the results paid off. I would of been really nervous doing all that, especially when you said you taped over the cartouches...braver man than me!

You're right, I'm really hoping for the two hour tour when I get mine. Guess I won't know what I'm in for until I get it, but I figured I'd get a start on the research of everything while I wait.

Thanks again and awesome looking gun !

What kind of sling is that, is that a Turner sling ?

Chris_B · March 6, 2010, 08:29 AM

Thanks Ken

The sling is not a Turner. It is a no-name M1907 sling that looks fairly good in the pics, but it has metal 'staples' holding the keepers together and it is actually a fairly crummy bit of leather. I got it for twenty bucks at a gunshow and figured the price was right, I'll try it out. Well, after I put some leather treatment on it it looked good, but the brand new leather actually cracked when I put it on the rifle. Makes it look old, but what a POS hunk of leather. Wish I knew the name of the maker so I could warn people to steer clear.

I'm not sure if I'm getting a sling from Turner, El Paso Saddlery, or Les Tam

Everybody raves about Turner, I have handled an M1 with an El Paso sling and it was really nice, and Les Tam uses original D-rings on his M1907s, and you can get the hooks in brass, but he's got a 4 month wait right now. I'm surely replacing that sling, just don't know with whose

jclayto · March 8, 2010, 02:33 PM

chris, awesome job with your rifle!

to the OP, you might also want to check out a product called fairtrimmers, you can google for it. A lot of people over on the CMP forum use it, and I have used it on several garands. I am in no way a skilled woodworker, but this stuff is easy to use.

again Chris, Excellent! I may try minwax on my beat up m44us, I like that color.

Chris_B · March 8, 2010, 07:10 PM

Thanks, I appreciate it. I sweated how it might turn out a time or two, I'll admit.

The Fairtrimmer's finish looks so nice. I've been tempted to get a Boyd's stock and try that stuff out

I didn't take a photo of when I started mine; the idea to take pictures occurred to me after I had sanded and then rubbed with scotch-brite. This photo gives an idea of how light the color of the walnut was before I stained it, though

madcratebuilder · March 9, 2010, 07:18 AM

I use a 50/50 mix of turpentine and BLO as a cleaner on mil-surp stocks to get the dark brown color off/out of them.

This stock was pretty dark when I started, I used 0000 steel wool, you could use a courser grade wool but risk removing any cartouche marks.

Chris_B · March 9, 2010, 06:03 PM

That looks pretty damn good

Aren't you worried about steel wool getting trapped in some of the grain of the wood though? It will eventually rust and stain the wood, won't it? I purposefully steered clear of steel wool. Tried to find bronze wool, I used to be able to find it about 10 years ago but no dice lately. All I could find was Chore-boy!

madcratebuilder · March 10, 2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Aren't you worried about steel wool getting trapped in some of the grain of the wood though? It will eventually rust and stain the wood, won't it? I purposefully steered clear of steel wool. Tried to find bronze wool, I used to be able to find it about 10 years ago but no dice lately. All I could find was Chore-boy!

There are guys that really swear by brass wool for the reasons you stated and they turn out great looking stocks. Then there are the steel wool guys that turn out great looking stocks and claim no rust issues after years and years of using steel wool.

I've seen some flame wars over it, sorta like rabbit season.....duck season.... rabbit season.

If I had brass wool readily available I would probably use it, but I keep de-oiled steel wool on hand so it's my go to product. I've never really used it on a stock so rough of finish that I had it pull the wool apart. If I had a stock that was wanting to 'eat' the steel wool I would think about getting some brass wool just to be safe or maybe some 600 grit the smooth it out a bit. Maybe a fine scotchbrite pad? I try not to remove any wood, just the dirt and grime but it can be hard to do that some times.

March 5, 2010, 11:28 AM	#1
hans4811 Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Northeast FLA Posts: 44	Question for Chris B...M1 Refinishing.... Hey Chris, Was looking around the forums for some info on refinishing a stock when I came across a pic of your M1... M1black-1.jpg ....VERY NICE !! I just ordered an M1 from CMP, a Korean War vintage model, and was wondering how you did yours exactly. I've read the info from CMP, and honestly, I was more confused after that. You said 'I did a lot of work to the buttstock, but it has just a boiled linseed oil finish'....what exactly did u do ? If you don't mind and got the time, could you explain with a little detail how you did that ? That's exactly what I was shooting for, sorry bad unintentional pun, and don't have any experience with a stock, or a rifle for that matter....mostly a hand-gunner! Was this your first one ? Thanks so much....Ken

March 5, 2010, 07:26 PM	#2
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Hi Ken. Yes, this was my first time. If I had it to do over again, I would consider this product: http://www.fairtrimmers.com/index.html Congratulations on buying an M1. I'm sure you'll love it In case any confusion over it exists, the stocks were not stained originally, although I did end up staining mine My buttstock actually needed a lot of work, including sanding. I did not want to go that route but that's how it ended up. I tried cleaning with linseed oil. Then I tried isopropyl alcohol. Then I tried isopropyl and a scotch-brite pad. Then I tried mineral spirits...nothing made that piece of wood turn from dog-doo brown to walnut brown. I did not want to get aggressive; you lose the original color, the so-called 'arsenal red' if you go nuts. That color was achieved through years and decades of exposure to sweat, sun, dirt, gun oils, cleaning solvents, etc. The original finish was done through a dipping process; for my rifle's time, this was a linseed oil dip. Also in that dip tank was rust, dead bugs, sweat, dirt, etc etc. The 'arsenal red' is at least partly due to oxidation of impurities in the finish. So I did not want to mess with that! But nothing took the brownish/blackish stains off. It was like tar mixed with glue that had gone into the pores of the wood. After 3 or 4 days of no results, I carefully taped over the cartouches (I only had a rebuild stamp from Rock Island Arsenal and a post-war Circled P) and I started to sand. I was very careful not to round over any of the machined edges too much; I just hit them enough to knock off anything that might splinter. I started with 100 grit, gently (if you can use 100gr gently), and then I went to 240 and then 400. I then used very fine scotch-brite. I have since learned that the original texture was very near to that produced from 150 grit sandpaper; wear smoothed the stocks out Since I had removed the 'arsenal red' finish along with the blackish mess, I started thinking about stains. In the meantime, I used a hand-held iron and a cloth to steam out some- but hardly all- of the dents and gouges in the wood. I stayed clear of cartouches so as not to raise them. You place a damp cloth over the wood, and use the iron set on 'steam', 1 or 2 inches above the wood at the dent or gouge. I never would have tried this had the wood been not in need of a full refinish but I figured what the heck. It worked well (and slowly) but I restricted it to a few really ugly spots. During the process I was continually wiping down the wood with clean dry rags to remove as much moisture as possible. I then set the stock by a radiator to dry for a day I then stained the buttstock and rear hand guard. The front hand guard is not stained but the match is pretty good; I just had to clean the front guard but the wood was a lighter walnut than I wanted so I decided to stain to match I used Dark Walnut Minwax stain mixed with their Red Oak stain, 1 part Dark Walnut to 3 parts Red Oak. I stained three times over the course of a day, starting at about 9 am and finishing about 4 pm I used a rag, and a piece of scotch-brite, to apply the oil. I don't think that the scotch-brite mattered in retrospect. I set the stock and hand guard inside to dry by a radiator for three days. Three very, very long days Then I rubbed them down hard with a clean rag. Lots of stain came off but I had a nice red-brown with some golden spots here and there. One more day to make sure they were really dry was spent with the wood near that radiator again Then I oiled the wood. Just boiled linseed oil. I let that dry overnight...by the radiator. Then the rubbing and oiling every day for a week began. Then one day a week for a month. I oil it every few months now. I feel the Minwax mix I used ended up pretty good, judging from the color of the front guard. Here's the other side of the rifle Now, all that said: I didn't want to go that route at all. Sure it looks nice but it was a PITA in a lot of ways; I smelled like linseed oil and stain for weeks and I had stain on my hands that wouldn't come off even though I wore gloves. You probably won't have to go through the process I describe above; hopefully your stock wasn't used to mix glue and tar or something like mine was. I'd say I spent 80 hours on the wood. It was fun in a lot of ways too, but it felt like work sometimes I have also cleaned and oiled a USGI stock for an M1 carbine, in about two hours total, with results equal to the two-week process I just told you about. I took my Pop's M1 carbine stock, and cleaned it with a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol- from the same tin that did nothing for my M1 stock in fact, and then wiped it down, and put some mineral spirits on a rag and wiped down the stock again. I put it in the sun for half an hour to dry; it was August. The stock was a light grayish color when I came back. Then, I put one coat of boiled linseed oil on it, and the color jumped out: I let it dry overnight, rubbed it with a rag, and was done. I really preferred that two hours of effort to the 80 hours! Last edited by Chris_B; March 5, 2010 at 07:39 PM.

March 8, 2010, 07:10 PM	#6
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Thanks, I appreciate it. I sweated how it might turn out a time or two, I'll admit. The Fairtrimmer's finish looks so nice. I've been tempted to get a Boyd's stock and try that stuff out I didn't take a photo of when I started mine; the idea to take pictures occurred to me after I had sanded and then rubbed with scotch-brite. This photo gives an idea of how light the color of the walnut was before I stained it, though Last edited by Chris_B; March 8, 2010 at 07:15 PM.

March 5, 2010, 11:08 PM	#3
hans4811 Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Northeast FLA Posts: 44	Wow, thanks for that Chris ! I had no idea...but the results paid off. I would of been really nervous doing all that, especially when you said you taped over the cartouches...braver man than me! You're right, I'm really hoping for the two hour tour when I get mine. Guess I won't know what I'm in for until I get it, but I figured I'd get a start on the research of everything while I wait. Thanks again and awesome looking gun ! What kind of sling is that, is that a Turner sling ?

March 6, 2010, 08:29 AM	#4
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Thanks Ken The sling is not a Turner. It is a no-name M1907 sling that looks fairly good in the pics, but it has metal 'staples' holding the keepers together and it is actually a fairly crummy bit of leather. I got it for twenty bucks at a gunshow and figured the price was right, I'll try it out. Well, after I put some leather treatment on it it looked good, but the brand new leather actually cracked when I put it on the rifle. Makes it look old, but what a POS hunk of leather. Wish I knew the name of the maker so I could warn people to steer clear. I'm not sure if I'm getting a sling from Turner, El Paso Saddlery, or Les Tam Everybody raves about Turner, I have handled an M1 with an El Paso sling and it was really nice, and Les Tam uses original D-rings on his M1907s, and you can get the hooks in brass, but he's got a 4 month wait right now. I'm surely replacing that sling, just don't know with whose

March 8, 2010, 02:33 PM	#5
jclayto Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2005 Location: Anderson, SC Posts: 600	chris, awesome job with your rifle! to the OP, you might also want to check out a product called fairtrimmers, you can google for it. A lot of people over on the CMP forum use it, and I have used it on several garands. I am in no way a skilled woodworker, but this stuff is easy to use. again Chris, Excellent! I may try minwax on my beat up m44us, I like that color.

March 9, 2010, 07:18 AM	#7
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	I use a 50/50 mix of turpentine and BLO as a cleaner on mil-surp stocks to get the dark brown color off/out of them. This stock was pretty dark when I started, I used 0000 steel wool, you could use a courser grade wool but risk removing any cartouche marks.

March 9, 2010, 06:03 PM	#8
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	That looks pretty damn good Aren't you worried about steel wool getting trapped in some of the grain of the wood though? It will eventually rust and stain the wood, won't it? I purposefully steered clear of steel wool. Tried to find bronze wool, I used to be able to find it about 10 years ago but no dice lately. All I could find was Chore-boy!