Synthetic Stock for FR-8

**Bud Helms** · April 8, 2000, 08:06 AM

In the "Art of the Rifle" Forum the question is asked whether a standard after market synthetic stock for a Mauser 98 would take a Spanish FR-8 barreled action without problems.

Any one know?

zot · April 8, 2000, 11:46 PM

its a large ring right? most synt stocks can
be made to fit heavy barreled 98 actions,I've
seen some FR-8s with scopes and bolts nicely
cut and rewelded, recoil pads too! their nice
brush guns for dear, some say don't mess them up for their value,I say they ain't
worth more than $200 no matter how long ya keep em,

**Bud Helms** · April 9, 2000, 09:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...some say don't mess them up for their value,I say they ain't worth more than $200 no matter how long ya keep em,...[/quote]

I agree. I got mine for $89. It'll be a long time before it gets to $200. Yes, it is a large ring.

Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to scouterize this guy. It has an excellent bore. Chamber neck area is a little long.

Now I need an intermediate eye relief scope. The only one I've seen is a Leupold. Do I want to put a $200 scope on a $70 rifle? Not really. The search is on.

JJCII · April 9, 2000, 02:27 PM

sensop,

I posed the question in "the Art of the Rifle" forum and have come to the same conclusion you have. I'm definately modifying my FR-8. After taking a whoopin' from the steel buttplate of the original stock yesterday, the military stock must go!
Though the recoil of the 7.62 x 51 is no way punishing, the rifle's light weight coupled with the battering ram-like qaulity steel of the buttplate, have me looking for a more shooter friendly stock option. Ram-Line or Butler Creek Stocks are what I'm considering at this time.

Here's another problem/challenge the front site hood poses a problem with attaching either the Ching Ring or Ashely Outdoors scope mount. Does anyone know of an alternate solution?

jjc2

**Bud Helms** · April 9, 2000, 03:47 PM

It was definitely your post that got me over here in the Smithy forum to pursue the same question. I was hoping you would get over here too.

I'm going to see about another FR-8 and leave one original if I can. I mean at $89 ... ? I think they're neat. The bore is really in good shape. If I find a IER scope reasonable, I'll let you know.

I wonder if an Israeli K98 would be better.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited April 09, 2000).]

BBBBill · April 9, 2000, 09:07 PM

If your FR-8 is one of those sold as a 7.62x51 (308), perhaps you should get your gunsmith to do a chamber cast. I believe that the Spanish used a proprietary round based on the 7.62x51, but using a much heavier/longer bullet in a case made to the same external dimensions as our round. Hence the long chamber throat. These rounds were loaded to a lower pressure than our 7.62x51. It won't be dangerous to shoot, assuming the normal safety checks, but I'm not sure you will get very good accuracy without handloading or setting the barrel back & touching up the chamber.

JJCII · April 9, 2000, 11:33 PM

BBBBill,

The dealer I bought my FR 8 said he'd checked the "head space" for compatibility himself and found it more than acceptable. Should I still take the time to have the a chamber cast done by a qualified gunsmith? The best group I managed to get yesterday was about one inch at fifty yards with iron sights. The rest of the time was spent raising the front site to lower the point of impact on target.

jjc2

**Bud Helms** · April 10, 2000, 12:03 AM

Well, I was suspicious, but I never heard that particular set of facts. That does it. I'll cast the chamber with cerrosafe and compare it to a NATO chamber.

There I went assuming! I haven't even checked the twist rate yet. Taking the barrel back a thread or two and rechambering could make a big difference.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited April 10, 2000).]

zot · April 10, 2000, 12:16 AM

I bought a FR-8 for $100 and sold it for
$200 a year ago, I haven't seen any for sale
since, I think their not as cheap now as you
claim,good rifle

JJCII · April 10, 2000, 07:52 PM

sensop,

Please let me know what your findings are concerning the chamber length. If the chamber length must be addressed it may jeapordize my motivation for continuing the project. The gunsmith charges for mounting a forward scope mount with the chamber may just blow my planned budget. Besides Savage Scouts are just too cheap to ignore.

jjc2

**Bud Helms** · April 10, 2000, 09:48 PM

I'll let you know.

BBBBill · April 10, 2000, 10:08 PM

JJCII,
Your headspace may very well check out, as the headspace dimension doesn't include the bullet in the measurement. Headspace is measured from a "datum line", about midway of the shoulder, to the base of the cartridge. The long throat in the FR-8's was to clear the longer,heavier bullets in the Spanish rounds.
I wouldn't worry too much tho', as your groups indicate that something is working right. These were not built to be as accurate as a good sporter, just to reliably kill in a combat environment. Still, I'd check headspace & probably do a chamber cast just to add a little peace of mind. Sounds like you got a good 'un.:0
My previous post was meant only to inform, so that you could make an educated decision about reloading or rebarreling, depending on your needs. Hope this helps.

JJCII · April 12, 2000, 02:16 AM

BBBBill,

Thanks for the information, I read your comments as helpful information from an informed source. That's what this forum is all about and I thank you for participating in this thread. My fickleness towards the FR 8 "utility scout" project has more to do with my inability to do more of the modifications myself, which takes some of the fun out of it. On the other hand, no matter how cheap the Savage Scout is it would not be a utility rifle built on my terms. So, I'm back on the project with renewed vigor, at least until my medication wears off or my money runs out. "Is there a gunsmith in the house?"

jjc2

George Stringer · April 12, 2000, 07:24 AM

JJCII, as long as you guys are answering each other with advice that I agree with I usually don't bother repeating something that has already been said. That's why I've only been reading this thread so far. The chambering that is being talked about is the 7.62 CETME. The round was designed for the Model 58 Assault rifle and some of the FR-8s were also chambered for this round. But I think there is a little confusion here. The original Model 58 was chambered for the 7.92 Kurtz (8mm short) which had the longer bullets but the rifles were later rechambered for the 7.62 NATO. The CETME version of this round from what I can find is identical except in power and pressure. The CETME ammo is loaded to lower pressures than the standard but standard NATO ammo can be used in these rifles because that is what they are chambered for. George

George Stringer · April 12, 2000, 07:38 AM

BUT! (I hit the wrong button) But, while I've known FR-8s that shot standard NATO and .308 Win ammo for years with no problems the safe load for this rifle would be under 49,000psi. NATO ammo is rated at 50,000 and SAAMI specs for .308 Win is 52,000cup. George

zot · April 12, 2000, 05:53 PM

Israeli K-98 in .308?with the star of david
on receiver?

JJCII · April 12, 2000, 08:22 PM

George Stringer,

Welcome to the discussion. So, your recommendation is handloading for the FR 8 to stay on the safe side? Are there any factory loads you'd recommend? The last thing I'd want to be carrying is a pipe bomb made to look like a rifle.

jjc2

[This message has been edited by JJCII (edited April 12, 2000).]

George Stringer · April 12, 2000, 10:08 PM

JJCCII, as far as I know all factory ammo is loaded to SAAMI specs so I really can't recommend anything that would be "safe" in your rifle. You might contact some of the commercial reloading outfits and find out what kind of pressure their loads have as well as what it might cost for loading to your specs. But if you don't already reload, now is the time to start. You have a good excuse. For about $100 you could be set up to reload for your rifle. Much less if you go with the old reliable Lee Loader. Roughly $20. Something to think about. And it's a lot of fun watching loads you worked up for your rifle doing what you want them to. George

Nestor Rivera · April 13, 2000, 12:33 PM

The never ending FR-8 / Cetme / 7.62Nato /.308 win debate goes on

Personal experience with my FR-8 is that it works fine with CAVIM 7.62Nato and UMC .308 Win and my hand loads work fine too.

Remember this was built off of a 98k large ring mauser

A fellow FR-8 owner has a page at http://www.storm.ca/%7Edebin666/html...-8%20page.html

As always this info is my personal experince no gaurantee or warranty emplied or given use at your own risk.

[This message has been edited by Nestor Rivera (edited April 13, 2000).]

**Bud Helms** · April 13, 2000, 07:35 PM

After reading his page about how hard they are to find in Spain, I think I may reconsider any mods to it. Unless I come into a bulk purchase of two or three together.

This definitely sounds like a rifle to handload for.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited April 13, 2000).]

Spectre · April 13, 2001, 09:45 PM

Sensop, if you happen into any more FR-8's for less than 150$ in good shape, pick up one for me, please!

I've toyed with the idea of sporterizing mine, but I think I may settle for just changing the sights.

April 8, 2000, 08:06 AM	#1
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	In the "Art of the Rifle" Forum the question is asked whether a standard after market synthetic stock for a Mauser 98 would take a Spanish FR-8 barreled action without problems. Any one know?

April 8, 2000, 11:46 PM	#2
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	its a large ring right? most synt stocks can be made to fit heavy barreled 98 actions,I've seen some FR-8s with scopes and bolts nicely cut and rewelded, recoil pads too! their nice brush guns for dear, some say don't mess them up for their value,I say they ain't worth more than $200 no matter how long ya keep em,

April 9, 2000, 09:09 AM	#3
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...some say don't mess them up for their value,I say they ain't worth more than $200 no matter how long ya keep em,...[/quote] I agree. I got mine for $89. It'll be a long time before it gets to $200. Yes, it is a large ring. Thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to scouterize this guy. It has an excellent bore. Chamber neck area is a little long. Now I need an intermediate eye relief scope. The only one I've seen is a Leupold. Do I want to put a $200 scope on a $70 rifle? Not really. The search is on.

April 9, 2000, 02:27 PM	#4
JJCII Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Posts: 179	sensop, I posed the question in "the Art of the Rifle" forum and have come to the same conclusion you have. I'm definately modifying my FR-8. After taking a whoopin' from the steel buttplate of the original stock yesterday, the military stock must go! Though the recoil of the 7.62 x 51 is no way punishing, the rifle's light weight coupled with the battering ram-like qaulity steel of the buttplate, have me looking for a more shooter friendly stock option. Ram-Line or Butler Creek Stocks are what I'm considering at this time. Here's another problem/challenge the front site hood poses a problem with attaching either the Ching Ring or Ashely Outdoors scope mount. Does anyone know of an alternate solution? jjc2

April 9, 2000, 03:47 PM	#5
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	It was definitely your post that got me over here in the Smithy forum to pursue the same question. I was hoping you would get over here too. I'm going to see about another FR-8 and leave one original if I can. I mean at $89 ... ? I think they're neat. The bore is really in good shape. If I find a IER scope reasonable, I'll let you know. I wonder if an Israeli K98 would be better. [This message has been edited by sensop (edited April 09, 2000).]

April 9, 2000, 09:07 PM	#6
BBBBill Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2000 Location: Alabama Posts: 197	If your FR-8 is one of those sold as a 7.62x51 (308), perhaps you should get your gunsmith to do a chamber cast. I believe that the Spanish used a proprietary round based on the 7.62x51, but using a much heavier/longer bullet in a case made to the same external dimensions as our round. Hence the long chamber throat. These rounds were loaded to a lower pressure than our 7.62x51. It won't be dangerous to shoot, assuming the normal safety checks, but I'm not sure you will get very good accuracy without handloading or setting the barrel back & touching up the chamber.

April 9, 2000, 11:33 PM	#7
JJCII Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Posts: 179	BBBBill, The dealer I bought my FR 8 said he'd checked the "head space" for compatibility himself and found it more than acceptable. Should I still take the time to have the a chamber cast done by a qualified gunsmith? The best group I managed to get yesterday was about one inch at fifty yards with iron sights. The rest of the time was spent raising the front site to lower the point of impact on target. jjc2

April 10, 2000, 12:03 AM	#8
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Well, I was suspicious, but I never heard that particular set of facts. That does it. I'll cast the chamber with cerrosafe and compare it to a NATO chamber. There I went assuming! I haven't even checked the twist rate yet. Taking the barrel back a thread or two and rechambering could make a big difference. [This message has been edited by sensop (edited April 10, 2000).]

April 10, 2000, 12:16 AM	#9
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	I bought a FR-8 for $100 and sold it for $200 a year ago, I haven't seen any for sale since, I think their not as cheap now as you claim,good rifle

April 10, 2000, 07:52 PM	#10
JJCII Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Posts: 179	sensop, Please let me know what your findings are concerning the chamber length. If the chamber length must be addressed it may jeapordize my motivation for continuing the project. The gunsmith charges for mounting a forward scope mount with the chamber may just blow my planned budget. Besides Savage Scouts are just too cheap to ignore. jjc2

April 10, 2000, 09:48 PM	#11
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	I'll let you know.

April 10, 2000, 10:08 PM	#12
BBBBill Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2000 Location: Alabama Posts: 197	JJCII, Your headspace may very well check out, as the headspace dimension doesn't include the bullet in the measurement. Headspace is measured from a "datum line", about midway of the shoulder, to the base of the cartridge. The long throat in the FR-8's was to clear the longer,heavier bullets in the Spanish rounds. I wouldn't worry too much tho', as your groups indicate that something is working right. These were not built to be as accurate as a good sporter, just to reliably kill in a combat environment. Still, I'd check headspace & probably do a chamber cast just to add a little peace of mind. Sounds like you got a good 'un.:0 My previous post was meant only to inform, so that you could make an educated decision about reloading or rebarreling, depending on your needs. Hope this helps.

April 12, 2000, 02:16 AM	#13
JJCII Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Posts: 179	BBBBill, Thanks for the information, I read your comments as helpful information from an informed source. That's what this forum is all about and I thank you for participating in this thread. My fickleness towards the FR 8 "utility scout" project has more to do with my inability to do more of the modifications myself, which takes some of the fun out of it. On the other hand, no matter how cheap the Savage Scout is it would not be a utility rifle built on my terms. So, I'm back on the project with renewed vigor, at least until my medication wears off or my money runs out. "Is there a gunsmith in the house?" jjc2

April 12, 2000, 07:24 AM	#14
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	JJCII, as long as you guys are answering each other with advice that I agree with I usually don't bother repeating something that has already been said. That's why I've only been reading this thread so far. The chambering that is being talked about is the 7.62 CETME. The round was designed for the Model 58 Assault rifle and some of the FR-8s were also chambered for this round. But I think there is a little confusion here. The original Model 58 was chambered for the 7.92 Kurtz (8mm short) which had the longer bullets but the rifles were later rechambered for the 7.62 NATO. The CETME version of this round from what I can find is identical except in power and pressure. The CETME ammo is loaded to lower pressures than the standard but standard NATO ammo can be used in these rifles because that is what they are chambered for. George

April 12, 2000, 07:38 AM	#15
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	BUT! (I hit the wrong button) But, while I've known FR-8s that shot standard NATO and .308 Win ammo for years with no problems the safe load for this rifle would be under 49,000psi. NATO ammo is rated at 50,000 and SAAMI specs for .308 Win is 52,000cup. George

April 12, 2000, 05:53 PM	#16
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	Israeli K-98 in .308?with the star of david on receiver?

April 12, 2000, 08:22 PM	#17
JJCII Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Posts: 179	George Stringer, Welcome to the discussion. So, your recommendation is handloading for the FR 8 to stay on the safe side? Are there any factory loads you'd recommend? The last thing I'd want to be carrying is a pipe bomb made to look like a rifle. jjc2 [This message has been edited by JJCII (edited April 12, 2000).]

April 12, 2000, 10:08 PM	#18
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	JJCCII, as far as I know all factory ammo is loaded to SAAMI specs so I really can't recommend anything that would be "safe" in your rifle. You might contact some of the commercial reloading outfits and find out what kind of pressure their loads have as well as what it might cost for loading to your specs. But if you don't already reload, now is the time to start. You have a good excuse. For about $100 you could be set up to reload for your rifle. Much less if you go with the old reliable Lee Loader. Roughly $20. Something to think about. And it's a lot of fun watching loads you worked up for your rifle doing what you want them to. George

April 13, 2000, 12:33 PM	#19
Nestor Rivera Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 1998 Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA Posts: 446	The never ending FR-8 / Cetme / 7.62Nato /.308 win debate goes on Personal experience with my FR-8 is that it works fine with CAVIM 7.62Nato and UMC .308 Win and my hand loads work fine too. Remember this was built off of a 98k large ring mauser A fellow FR-8 owner has a page at http://www.storm.ca/%7Edebin666/html...-8%20page.html As always this info is my personal experince no gaurantee or warranty emplied or given use at your own risk. [This message has been edited by Nestor Rivera (edited April 13, 2000).]

April 13, 2000, 07:35 PM	#20
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	After reading his page about how hard they are to find in Spain, I think I may reconsider any mods to it. Unless I come into a bulk purchase of two or three together. This definitely sounds like a rifle to handload for. [This message has been edited by sensop (edited April 13, 2000).]

April 13, 2001, 09:45 PM	#21
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Sensop, if you happen into any more FR-8's for less than 150$ in good shape, pick up one for me, please! I've toyed with the idea of sporterizing mine, but I think I may settle for just changing the sights.