more sporting?

[troy_mclure]

i never understood this, i see it alot in reference to scopes, gun types, etc...

i hunt because i enjoy being in the woods, and shooting guns, and eating critters.

i dont hunt because its a "challenge" or something. if im after some tasty meat im gonna use every thing i can help me to get that meat. whether it be scopes, semi auto gun, etc...

ive passed up big racked bucks for tender tasty does before and i never felt i was being "un-sporting" by using a scope, and saboted bullet.

is it just "horn/antler" hunters that want a hunt to be "sporting"?

[hogdogs]

is it just "horn/antler" hunters that want a hunt to be "sporting"?

Me thinx so...
Brent

[Gbro]

i dont hunt because its a "challenge" or something. if im after some tasty meat im gonna use every thing i can help me to get that meat. whether it be scopes, semi auto gun, etc...

I can understand your feelings.
There are stages that most hunters go through and you will have a difficult time understanding those other stages until you experience them.
I will without knowing much about you, I place you in one of the early stages most hunters go through. This link, If you are unfamiliar with the stages will give you an idea of where you would place yourself.
LINK

The rules are made up by those interested in their sport to the point that they write letters and attend input meeting to give direction to the wildlife specialists. I have done that, and now in some cases I cannot justify my earlier position.
Here in MN I sided with the DNR on outlawing baiting. (Deer)
Today I am believing that within reason, baiting should be allowed.
Reasons,
I have grandchildren that are not getting any opportunities and are loosing interest.
There are many that will break the law and bait because they have to compete with the legal practice of food plots that are IMHO no different.
The huge wolf population has enhanced the herd, meaning the deer is much harder to hunt than those close to residential areas.

[ZeroJunk]

I guess I am a trophy hunter. The next to the last day I hunted this year I saw 20 doe within 200 yards. The last day I hunted I saw 12, closest maybe 50 yards. I saw several little basket rack 6 point and 8 point bucks this year. I still have a couple hundred pounds of elk and deer in the freezer from last year, don't need any meat.

I never fired a shot the entire season. Nothing really interested me.

[Scorch]

The idea that an activity or behavior is "sporting" (meaning "fairness") goes back to the reason and the way we hunt. If we were subsistence or survival hunters, we would use dead-drop traps, pits, snares, fermented grain, machine guns, explosives, punt guns, run herds of animals off cliffs, whatever could harvest the greatest amount of food with the minimum of effort. That is how survival works: the person who expends the least energy in harvesting the most calories lives to tell about it and pass on their genes.

But what we do is called "sport" hunting (meaning we are doing it for entertainment, not for subsistence or for profit), and we are trying to harvest a single animal (as opposed to killing a whole herd). The fact that you say you hunt because you enjoy the outdoors is somewhat inaccurate, because you can enjoy the outdoors without hunting.

I believe that the reason many of us hunt is that we enjoy the pursuit because of atavistic feedbacks (call it a "caveman instinct") of self-sufficiency, self-reliance, and dominance over nature or wild animals. It's what makes us "men's men", in a socially acceptable (maybe not so much anymore) way.

It's a very complex thing. If it were just hunting for food to survive, the local Safeway has much better prices for meat than you can get wild animals for, and it's pretty much a 100% success rate. If it were just proving that we can survive in the wild, you can harvest wild mushrooms or roots or whatever and just survive. Non-hunters pooh-pooh it, and even mock us for being "repressed, violent and aggressive", but give even the most rabid antihunter a few days in the wild without freeze-dried tomato-basil tofu, and they will become a hunter. I guess what I am saying is that hunting fulfills us in a way that simply popping a TV dinner into the oven and planting our behinds in a cushy sofa cannot.

[hogdogs]

If it were just hunting for food to survive, the local Safeway has much better prices for meat than you can get wild animals for, and it's pretty much a 100% success rate.

Actually that is not always the case...
If you travel long distances carrying near new rifle with fine optics while wearing the latest camo treated and cleaned with the greatest scent blockers and +$200 boots, you are correct.

If you travel just a few miles with a cheap old .30-30 with the cheapest ammo while wearing 10 year old jeans and flannel shirt with a $1.00 closeout orange beanie atop your head and drop a 90 pound doe with one $.70 round, the 60 pounds of meat will come in at well under $2.00 lb. with your second animal with one more round, the price plummets to just pennies per pound. How do I know this? I am the sustenance hunter previously mentioned.

The meat I get will also be more flavorful be it deer or hog. Also leaner.

If the animal were to cost me even .10 cents more per pound I would have to pass on the hunting as it is strictly a financial move for me and my impoverished family.
Brent

[Daryl]

is it just "horn/antler" hunters that want a hunt to be "sporting"?

Not necessarily.

Here in Arizona, we're allowed one deer per calendar year. I can buy an over-the-counter archery deer tag that's valid statewide, and I can also put in for a drawing for the rifle hunts. If I'm successful, I'll actually have two tags issued to me.

But I can only legally kill one deer per calendar year. If I shoot one during archery season in late August, the rifle tag becomes essentially "invalid" by default. If I kill a deer during the fall firearms hunt, my archery tag becomes invalid for the December hunt.

When I take a rifle afield, it's pretty much no-holds-barred. I'll use what works best for my needs, and I'll use it effectively given the chance. Rifle seasons are usually short (4-7 days on most hunts), so a hunter has to get with it.

But I also hunt with archery gear, and on occasion with a handgun, rifle, and even a slingshot for small game now and then.

I like wild meat as much or even more than most, and I take hunting very seriously at times. Other times when I don't need the meat as much (IOW, the freezer's full), I'm more laid back about how I go about it. If I take a deer, I'm done deer hunting for the rest of the year, so putting a bit of challenge into it can be fun. I always like a good challenge.

But if the freezer's getting low, I get more serious about it.

Just depends on my wants and needs at the time.

Daryl

[jdscholer]

If you travel just a few miles with a cheap old .30-30 with the cheapest ammo while wearing 10 year old jeans and flannel shirt

Brent, I've gotta know, just what kind of jeans you wear. Mine don't last nearly ten years.

Back to the topic, around here, deer populations have dropped so low that pretty much any legal buck by any legal means will be a pretty sporting proposition.

I hunt for both meat and sport, and don't look down my nose at those who use different equipment or methods than me as long as it's legal. I happen to know that the guys who are most successful, usually work harder, spend more time, and sometimes are simply better hunters than guys who aren't very successful.

I think most of us love to shoot a large antlered animal, and it's kind of an ego trip that I'm not going to condemn. Many of us also love eating the fruits of our hunt, and to me any deer/elk that I kill is a valued trophy whether it's got horns or not; and whether it's killed with a rifle or bow.

If I lived in an area where killing game was simply a piece of cake, I'd probably become a little more trophy conscious, but only after the freezer was full. jd

[hogdogs]

JD, They are Rustlers and full of holes... maybe not 10 years old but some are truly 7 years old... Since I am attracted to taxidermy to remember my outings, I doubt I will ever be a trophy hunter even if my financial situation was completely improved... A quad would be nice and I might not pass on them huge bucks when several miles from the truck.


Brent

[jdscholer]

JD, They are Rustlers and full of holes

OH MY GOD!!! I wear Rustlers too. You mean we both---NOOOOO!!!! jd

[ZeroJunk]

I miss the old days myself, when it was a big deal to even see a deer. I don't know how to make it hard, or sporting if you like, anymore. If the season was in I could walk out behind the house just about now and shoot a deer.

The only way I can make it a challenge is to try and get an old buck who didn't get that way by being stupid. Otherwise it's more like shooting fish in a barrel around here.

[troy_mclure]

i remember my first deer season(7 yr old) the $10 deer tag, $5 hunting license, and a $5 box of 20 GA slugs was my birthday present.
thats $20 for 50#-60# of meat, depending on the deer.

we were dirt poor at that time, so if the meat wasnt caught/shot we didnt eat any.

heck i remember getting my dads old t/c hawken muzzleloader cause it was too inaccurate for him, but 1l/b of powder, 100caps, and the round ball mold that came with the rifle would get the deer for pennies a pound.

[Rembrandt]

I interpret "Sporting" to mean a competition of wits, skills, and experience against ones opponent.

In the case of hunting, it's the deers advantage of speed, smell, hearing, and terrain against my experience, equipment, and inability to endure the weather.

Yes, I'm a trophy hunter first and meat is secondary.

[oneounceload]

As hard as it was to TRY and get a tag in NV, I went for horns first....at least until the last day of the season, then it was just fill the tag.

I think what we're seeing here is the difference between Western hunting using a draw system and maybe you get a tag, and Eastern hunters who get a slew of tags every year.

I also think that sporting tends to mean more to folks out West where "fair chase", "spot and stalk", and other similar methods are used and where food plots, baiting, etc. are not only not used, but illegal. This is compared to some of the "canned" hunts where deer are raised behind high game fences and the effort to "harvest" a nice big buck are an affront to those of us who actually go after the animal up and down those mountains.

YMMV

[Dragon55]

When I was a teenager and Mom wanted me to go get something for supper while Dad was at work.... I had a couple of few choices.

I could go out and catch one of the chickens and wring it's neck and have to deal with them dern stinking feathers and chicken poo or....

Me and 'Bowser' could walk across the road then the field through Mr. Van Dyke's gate towards the old quarry where I knew there would be the big covey of quail.

Then after busting up that one walk on over to the little pine thicket that was next to Bush Brothers corn field and stir up that smaller covey.

Next circle back around through the stand of oaks near the horse show ring in case their were any squirrels out messing around.

At minimum I usually came back with 5 or 6 quail breasts. Sometimes a rabbit or a couple of squirrels.

So I guess my reasons were just laziness cause I could do all that and be back in an hour or two with supper..... and minus chicken poo.

I tried the sport of deer hunting once and was never so bored in all my life. I guess I just didn't get it. I am obviously in the minority. I really like venison so it's not that.

Heck I like fish too but just can't spend that much time and money trying to get them.

However, I really like it when my buddies bring me a stringer of fish or a fresh hind quarter from a deer. I have buddies that enjoy the sport. I'm glad and appreciate them.

They don't really care for my hunting..... traipsing around through the briars and mudholes trying to 'skeer' up supper.

But hey.... to each his own.

[ZeroJunk]

out West where "fair chase", "spot and stalk", and other similar methods

Maybe. But, here is a mule deer in Montana wilderness at about 10 yards with me standing on the ground, camera making funny noises. I also had an 8 point walk up to me to as close as 50 yards. If anything they are easier to kill in the west IMO. I let both walk BTW. A little too easy for me, and nothing size wise to write home about.

[cole k]

“is it just "horn/antler" hunters that want a hunt to be "sporting"?”

No it is not just "horn/antler" hunters that want a hunt to be "sporting".

I'm more of a meat hunter than an antler hunter. I have not mounts. I do have a couple large tupperware boxes full of antlers.

I do enjoy hunting with different types of rifles, be it bolt actions, lever actions, and single shots, break actions or falling blocks. Some of my rifles wear scopes and some don't.

Ten or so years ago one of my sons ask me why I was hunting so much now with single shot rifles. I responded with a question, “How many times have you know me to shoot more than once at a game animal? “ He paused a few seconds and said, “Three.” I said, “No, its was five.”

My point is that it is the FIRST Shot that counts. SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING.

[Gbro]

Dragon55,
I thought I was reading "The Old Man and a Boy" there for a second.

[reloader28]

I hunt because I just like to get out and hunt. We only have a 7 day deer season here by the house. 3 weeks longer on the forest. I hunt most most of the season for a wall hanger. I dont have my BIG one yet. I pass all the smaller ones and let them grow a little more. (Usually somebody else shoots them anyway ). I just like to hunt and see my options and then pop a doe the last day.

I did tag a buck this year but only cause the car in front of me hit it ,but not too bad. We're only allowed to tag 1 per year ,but I didnt want to see it rot so I finished it off, brought it home and butchered it. A 5x6 and we saved at least 80% of the meat.

[Hog Buster]

More sporting? Baseball, football, basketball and a bunch of other pedestrian pastimes are sports. Hunting is much more.

Like a tomcat catching a jay bird, or a fox catching a chicken, hunters are out to kill something, not just to score meaningless points. If that something has to have big horns, so what, no horns, so what. I don’t think any hunters just saw the horns off and leave the rest. Most game is consumed. Notice I said most. I know there’s always a few woodpecker shooters around. These aren’t hunters and never will be.

A sport? Fair chase? Bull hockey. The most intelligent animal on earth hunting one with much less intelligence in no way is sport or fair chase. Add the use of very sophisticated implements in this endeavor and there’s nothing sporting about it. Run your quarry down while naked and carrying a club, well, just maybe then.

Without getting too philosophical, hunting , be it for large game, small game, or whatever, teaches one much about life, death and the things between. It can be a great source of enjoyment, self satisfaction, and may be life altering. Those of us who do hunt each have our own reasons and values for participating, which are not easily conveyed to others, even other hunters.
Calling it a sport diminishes it’s value.

[Buzzcook]

Sporting also means harvesting game in a sustainable manner.

[Uncle Buck]

I am pretty much with HogDogs on this. I hunt, and fish, to put meat on the table and in the freezer. Am I successful every time? Yeah, I wish I was!

Although my jeans all come from a thrift shop and my hunting equipment is, for the most part, older than I am, I still consider it a sport. If I won every time, then it would not be a sport to me.

I can afford to buy a lot of things new, but I choose to spend my money on things I want and need. We process our own meat and have no problem putting a patch on our jeans when they need them. I grew up eating a lot of wild game,not because we liked it, but because we had to. Woodchuck and skunk, along with squirrels and rabbits were a steady diet as a youngster.

We all hunt and shoot for different reasons and I do not condemn anyone who likes the sport, unless they waste the meat. This past deer season I found a buck that someone shot and just cut the head off of and left the rest of the carcass there on the ground. I remember when I first came to Missouri, I was living in a trailer park and went to the dumpster. I found a dozen ducks just thrown in there. Not breasted or anything.

[Art Eatman]

This is where, to me, folks can worry too much over nit-picky. If you can afford to be on the Internet, you can afford to buy store meat. So, to me, there's subsistence hunting because that's all one can get or afford, and then there's what's called sport hunting for want of any better word.

In subsistence hunting, whatever method works is by definition good. Sport hunting has come to include the concepts of ethics and fair chase and the game laws we hunters as a group have imposed upon ourselves.

Hey, I've killed a bunch of does and eaten a ton of deer meat, mostly because I like to eat deer meat and the does were all over my land. Big deal--not. But I never found that the meat from a buck was bad eating. I'm not just a pretty face; I can cook.

Now, if you first spend the time to check out the bucks in an area, and decide which one is the biggest and go try to find him a second time so you can shoot him, that's a whole different deal. Generally, a big buck only makes one mistake in a season, and your first sight of him just might well have been his only mistake that year. That looks like bringing "challenge" into the equation. But it's a voluntarily-imposed challenge.

[semi_problomatic]

SO... if you hunt naked, with just your bare hands and the woodcraft in your head...then yes it'd be sporting... but if you're using camo, gun, stand, optics, scent-blocker, etc etc etc... then its really not fair... About as fair as me getting on a roof-top 400m away from you and waiting for you or your wife or kids to go out to the grocery store, work, playground..whatever and shooting you, your wife or kid... I mean, thats the sum of it right? You get some place before the animal, completely cover yourself so the animal can't see or smell you, and wait. And you place yourself where you know/expect the animal to go. Whoever considers hunting a sport probably considers himself a winner if he raced against a kid in the special olympics and won. Its not a sport. Nor a game.
I'm not some bleeding heart liberal, or some holier-than-though green peace trainee. I enjoy shooting guns and roll-my-own rounds because I enjoy the process and it gets me more involved in shooting. But the only thing I shoot at now is metal targets and 450m+ targets. I have a bow with all the doodads but its because I enjoy shooting, not because I want to extend a hunting season. I don't think I'm better than anyone I just think its stupid calling hunting a sport. It'd be like calling the columbine shooter a sportsman.
I know this post is going to ruffle a few feathers but hey, I don't care.
I'm not saying hunting is wrong, or unethical or anything like that, I'm just saying its not fair. Sport implies a fair chance. The getting on a roof-top line was simply showing that its no more fair to shoot an unsuspecting person doing nothing to hurt anyone than it is to go after a deer. I completely understand that hunting deer is controling the wildlife, providing food...etc etc etc. Its just not sporting or a sport.

[jdscholer]

About as fair as me getting on a roof-top 400m away from you and waiting for you or your wife or kids to go out to the grocery store, work, playground..whatever and shooting you, your wife or kid... I mean, thats the sum of it right?

Like----wow. jd