Help with unregistered handgun...

Lex325 · July 13, 2009, 10:14 PM

Hey guys...

Here's the situation: I live in NJ and just recently received my firearms purchaser ID card and permit to buy a handgun.

When talking to my cousin about purchasing a handgun, he said that he had one that he wanted to get rid of being that his kids are getting older and he did not want them snooping around, finding the gun one day and doing god knows what. The gun is a stainless 9mm in mint condition with less than 100 rounds of firing time that he is willing to give to me for free.

Now here is the problem: The gun has been handed down through a couple of family members over a period of 3-4 years and no one knows the last time it was registered. It should also be mentioned that the current owner does not have a firearms license.

I want to legitimately register the gun with good intentions of legally following all the laws of the state so that I do not get caught with an unregistered weapon and face any jail time.

So... my question is... How do I register a weapon that is currently unregistered without getting myself and my cousin into any trouble?

I looked at the registration form for a handgun in NJ and it requires providing information on how, where and from whom the gun was obtained/purchased.

Hopefully someone has had previous experience with this kind of situation in NJ and can shed some light on this issue for me.

Thanks for your all your help.

DasFriek · July 13, 2009, 10:26 PM

Tell them you went scuba diving and found a bunch of sunken boats loaded full of guns,its pretty common i hear.

Sorry i cant really answer your question tho,but im sure oneone can and will soon.

Doc Intrepid · July 13, 2009, 10:30 PM

You may wish to look a bit more in depth before you act...

I did a quick review of New Jersey gun laws, looking for firearms registration language on this site:
http://www.gunlaws.com/links/linksnj.htm

I searched using keywords "firearms registration".

The only immediate returns identifying a requirement to register firearms involve dealers and licensed manufacturers (2C:58-1); and assault weapons (2C:58-12).

There certainly may be a need to register handguns in New Jersey, I am not an authority. But I'm not finding it in the statues.

(You CAN, obviously, the question is whether you MUST...)

Registration is forever. If you don't absolutely need to register your new handgun in order to legally possess it in New Jersey, think twice about registration as a low-consequence event.

You certainly may need to register it, but I'd know for sure what the law states first. Just one guy's opinion. YMMV.

Regards,

Doc

Lex325 · July 13, 2009, 10:40 PM

Thanks guys... but I believe (told by a friend) that the law in NJ states that if caught with posession of an unregistered handgun is a class felony that you can face jail time for.

Can anyone shed some definitive light on this issue? Maybe someone with prior experience or has had to go through this kind of situation in NJ?

sophijo · July 13, 2009, 10:59 PM

I certainly wouldn't carry it unregistered but would be sorely tempted to stick it in the safe, unregistered, and keep it that way for a "rainy day".

raftman · July 13, 2009, 11:05 PM

I seem to have found your answer on the notorious anti-gun Brady campaign website. Their rhetoric is a bit inflammatory, but in any case, in their words,

Quote:

State law only requires registration of assault weapons. No state requirement that gun owners register other firearms though it is illegal to obtain a firearm without a state license. Police do not known how many guns are in the state or where they are. The lack of registration makes it difficult for police to trace guns used in crime, identify illegal gun traffickers or hold gun owners accountable for the illegal use of their weapons. Although the state does keep a record on handgun transfers, there is no state system to automatically identify and disarm felons and other prohibited people who bought guns legally in the past, but later committed a crime or otherwise became ineligible to keep possession of their firearms.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla...=nj#registrati

If there is an NJ-based pro-gun rights group, you may wanna contact them as they're likely be very well-versed in your guys' state laws.

isanchez2008 · July 13, 2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

firearms purchaser ID card and permit to buy a handgun.

:barf:

Hate to say it but it would suck to live in NJ.

Check handgunlaws.us

raftman · July 13, 2009, 11:55 PM

I think it's a hassle even in a relatively gun-friendly state; NJ seems plain grievous.

Lex325 · July 13, 2009, 11:56 PM

Thanks for everyone's input and knowledge... please keep it comin'

So here's the deal in my sucky state of NJ with my situation as I understand it so far after researching some state govt. websites at length...

Raftman is right... it is a "voluntary registration" for handguns in my state but here's is the catch. - From what I've read so far, I believe the permit to purchase a handgun is required to be sent to the proper authorities after the sale/transfer of the weapon has been completed. I'm sure this documentation will require you or the seller to specify what type of weapon it is and where you got it from.

Being that my seller has no firearms license though, I do see a loophole. If someone acquires a weapon through a will or inheritance, they do not have to have a firearms license or go apply for one. Hmmmmm.......

Now if I could only get my cousin to just write down that it was given to him by our late uncle that passed a few years ago ( I know... I know... shame on me taking advantage of the dead to fulfill my deception... spare me the comments people

) but he's already nervous about owning the gun at all without a license in the first place.

Don’t even think he wants to be associated with the transfer in any way. Now that I'm a little more informed, I'll try to explain the gun laws to him and see if he goes along with it.

Keep the comments coming... correct me if I am wrong about the permit to purchase.

Thanks!

Lex325 · July 14, 2009, 12:11 AM

I guess now the question is: "Can a seller (someone without a firearms license), transfer me a gun legally in the state of NJ without having to reveal where they, themselves, got it from?"

Doc Intrepid · July 14, 2009, 12:18 AM

Dude...

(If you're already going to take advantage of the dead anyway....)

Tell whomever that your deceased uncle left YOU the firearm, and leave your cousin out of it altogether.

Sheesh....

Lex325 · July 14, 2009, 12:31 AM

Good point Doc... guess I could always do that.

Elvishead · July 14, 2009, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Lex325:

Good point Doc... guess I could always do that.

Don't get caught up in a lie.

scottaschultz · July 14, 2009, 03:38 AM

OR...

Call your local PD/Sheriff Dept and ask them.

Scott

NGIB · July 14, 2009, 03:49 AM

Something that nobody has asked but I will. What kind of gun is it exactly?

If it's a Jennings, Bryco, or other low-end gun, I'd personally use my permit to buy something of a bit higher quality. Also, since you have no real history on the true origins of this gun (and live in a state with strict laws), it may be better to avoid the unknown...

AK103K · July 14, 2009, 04:31 AM

Quote:

I guess now the question is: "Can a seller (someone without a firearms license), transfer me a gun legally in the state of NJ without having to reveal where they, themselves, got it from?"

Yes.

I've sold a couple of guns to a friend in NJ. All we did was go to his local dealer and do the transfer. They just wanted to have my info (I'm from out of state). No question what so ever where the gun came from.

Alleykat · July 14, 2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

I think it's a hassle even in a relatively gun-friendly state; NJ seems plain grievous.

In a gun-friendly state, there's no registration. How's that a hassle?

raftman · July 14, 2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

In a gun-friendly state, there's no registration. How's that a hassle?

Heh, I said "relatively gun-friendly"... meaning relative to NJ, so there can still be a hassle, just not as much.

Dave P · July 14, 2009, 12:36 PM

Lex, take advantage of the gun show loophole: go to the next gun show, and sell it to the guy standing in your shoes.

Viola! No paper work, no background checks, no problem!

Or maybe take it to Mexico next time you go, and sell it for really big bucks. I hear a lot of people doing that these days.

NavyLT · July 14, 2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave P

Lex, take advantage of the gun show loophole: go to the next gun show, and sell it to the guy standing in your shoes.

Viola! No paper work, no background checks, no problem!

Or maybe take it to Mexico next time you go, and sell it for really big bucks. I hear a lot of people doing that these days.

Who let the gxxdxxx Brady campaign in here!

ninjatoth · July 14, 2009, 04:35 PM

I have a similar situation in michigan.My father in law said something about handing down all his guns to me when he dies.One of them is an old .22 revolver that he inherited from his uncle like 20 years ago.He never registered it,so what if he gives it to me before he dies?I don't even think registering them was inacted back when he got it.I don't know a way around it without him getting into trouble If the purchase permit lists him as seller

isanchez2008 · July 14, 2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Who let the gxxdxxx Brady campaign in here!

Ditto!

Dustin0 · July 14, 2009, 07:23 PM

Call ask you local gun store or call the NRA they will know the local laws.

RDak · July 14, 2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

I have a similar situation in michigan.My father in law said something about handing down all his guns to me when he dies.One of them is an old .22 revolver that he inherited from his uncle like 20 years ago.He never registered it,so what if he gives it to me before he dies?I don't even think registering them was inacted back when he got it.I don't know a way around it without him getting into trouble If the purchase permit lists him as seller.

In Michigan the police just run the serial number to see if it is stolen. If it isn't stolen, they just register it to you. They have never asked me for a registration card from the seller or checked to see if it was registered previously, for any old gun I've purchased. This has been the case everytime where the seller had never registered it.

ETA: Michigan's registration statutes were enacted in 1927.

Webleymkv · July 14, 2009, 07:59 PM

I am not particularly familiar with NJ law, so take this at face value. It would seem to me that perhaps there are two solutions to your problem. First, is there any reason that your cousin could not obtain the proper liscense prior to selling you the gun? If not, that may be the easiest solution to your problem. The other possible solution that I see is to take the gun to a local FFL and have him complete a transfer thusly making the gun legally purchased from a liscensed dealer. Most dealers in my area will complete such a transaction for a small fee.

July 13, 2009, 10:14 PM	#1
Lex325 Junior Member Join Date: July 13, 2009 Posts: 5	Help with unregistered handgun... Hey guys... Here's the situation: I live in NJ and just recently received my firearms purchaser ID card and permit to buy a handgun. When talking to my cousin about purchasing a handgun, he said that he had one that he wanted to get rid of being that his kids are getting older and he did not want them snooping around, finding the gun one day and doing god knows what. The gun is a stainless 9mm in mint condition with less than 100 rounds of firing time that he is willing to give to me for free. Now here is the problem: The gun has been handed down through a couple of family members over a period of 3-4 years and no one knows the last time it was registered. It should also be mentioned that the current owner does not have a firearms license. I want to legitimately register the gun with good intentions of legally following all the laws of the state so that I do not get caught with an unregistered weapon and face any jail time. So... my question is... How do I register a weapon that is currently unregistered without getting myself and my cousin into any trouble? I looked at the registration form for a handgun in NJ and it requires providing information on how, where and from whom the gun was obtained/purchased. Hopefully someone has had previous experience with this kind of situation in NJ and can shed some light on this issue for me. Thanks for your all your help.

July 13, 2009, 10:30 PM	#3
Doc Intrepid Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,037	You may wish to look a bit more in depth before you act... I did a quick review of New Jersey gun laws, looking for firearms registration language on this site: http://www.gunlaws.com/links/linksnj.htm I searched using keywords "firearms registration". The only immediate returns identifying a requirement to register firearms involve dealers and licensed manufacturers (2C:58-1); and assault weapons (2C:58-12). There certainly may be a need to register handguns in New Jersey, I am not an authority. But I'm not finding it in the statues. (You CAN, obviously, the question is whether you MUST...) Registration is forever. If you don't absolutely need to register your new handgun in order to legally possess it in New Jersey, think twice about registration as a low-consequence event. You certainly may need to register it, but I'd know for sure what the law states first. Just one guy's opinion. YMMV. Regards, Doc __________________ *Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.*

July 13, 2009, 10:40 PM	#4
Lex325 Junior Member Join Date: July 13, 2009 Posts: 5	Thanks guys... but I believe (told by a friend) that the law in NJ states that if caught with posession of an unregistered handgun is a class felony that you can face jail time for. Can anyone shed some definitive light on this issue? Maybe someone with prior experience or has had to go through this kind of situation in NJ? Last edited by Lex325; July 13, 2009 at 10:57 PM.

July 13, 2009, 10:59 PM	#5
sophijo Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2004 Posts: 666	unregistered I certainly wouldn't carry it unregistered but would be sorely tempted to stick it in the safe, unregistered, and keep it that way for a "rainy day".

July 13, 2009, 11:56 PM	#9
Lex325 Junior Member Join Date: July 13, 2009 Posts: 5	Ok... this is the info that I found out so far. Thanks for everyone's input and knowledge... please keep it comin' So here's the deal in my sucky state of NJ with my situation as I understand it so far after researching some state govt. websites at length... Raftman is right... it is a "voluntary registration" for handguns in my state but here's is the catch. - From what I've read so far, I believe the permit to purchase a handgun is required to be sent to the proper authorities after the sale/transfer of the weapon has been completed. I'm sure this documentation will require you or the seller to specify what type of weapon it is and where you got it from. Being that my seller has no firearms license though, I do see a loophole. If someone acquires a weapon through a will or inheritance, they do not have to have a firearms license or go apply for one. Hmmmmm....... Now if I could only get my cousin to just write down that it was given to him by our late uncle that passed a few years ago ( I know... I know... shame on me taking advantage of the dead to fulfill my deception... spare me the comments people ) but he's already nervous about owning the gun at all without a license in the first place. Don’t even think he wants to be associated with the transfer in any way. Now that I'm a little more informed, I'll try to explain the gun laws to him and see if he goes along with it. Keep the comments coming... correct me if I am wrong about the permit to purchase. Thanks! Last edited by Lex325; July 14, 2009 at 12:02 AM.

July 13, 2009, 10:26 PM	#2
DasFriek Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2009 Posts: 891	Tell them you went scuba diving and found a bunch of sunken boats loaded full of guns,its pretty common i hear. Sorry i cant really answer your question tho,but im sure oneone can and will soon.

July 13, 2009, 11:55 PM	#8
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	I think it's a hassle even in a relatively gun-friendly state; NJ seems plain grievous.

July 14, 2009, 12:11 AM	#10
Lex325 Junior Member Join Date: July 13, 2009 Posts: 5	I guess now the question is: "Can a seller (someone without a firearms license), transfer me a gun legally in the state of NJ without having to reveal where they, themselves, got it from?"

July 14, 2009, 12:18 AM	#11
Doc Intrepid Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,037	Dude... (If you're already going to take advantage of the dead anyway....) Tell whomever that your deceased uncle left YOU the firearm, and leave your cousin out of it altogether. Sheesh.... __________________ *Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.*

July 14, 2009, 12:31 AM	#12
Lex325 Junior Member Join Date: July 13, 2009 Posts: 5	Good point Doc... guess I could always do that.

July 14, 2009, 03:38 AM	#14
scottaschultz Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 392	OR... Call your local PD/Sheriff Dept and ask them. Scott __________________ "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders!" Ted Nugent

July 14, 2009, 03:49 AM	#15
NGIB Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2007 Location: Ft Stewart, GA Posts: 932	Something that nobody has asked but I will. What kind of gun is it exactly? If it's a Jennings, Bryco, or other low-end gun, I'd personally use my permit to buy something of a bit higher quality. Also, since you have no real history on the true origins of this gun (and live in a state with strict laws), it may be better to avoid the unknown... __________________ Proud to be a veteran. (USAF Retired, Army Civilian) I'm old, grumpy, and jaded - still vertical though...

July 14, 2009, 12:36 PM	#19
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Easy way out Lex, take advantage of the gun show loophole: go to the next gun show, and sell it to the guy standing in your shoes. Viola! No paper work, no background checks, no problem! Or maybe take it to Mexico next time you go, and sell it for really big bucks. I hear a lot of people doing that these days.

July 14, 2009, 04:35 PM	#21
ninjatoth Junior member Join Date: March 21, 2009 Location: sanford,mi Posts: 590	I have a similar situation in michigan.My father in law said something about handing down all his guns to me when he dies.One of them is an old .22 revolver that he inherited from his uncle like 20 years ago.He never registered it,so what if he gives it to me before he dies?I don't even think registering them was inacted back when he got it.I don't know a way around it without him getting into trouble If the purchase permit lists him as seller

July 14, 2009, 07:23 PM	#23
Dustin0 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 701	Call ask you local gun store or call the NRA they will know the local laws.

July 14, 2009, 07:59 PM	#25
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	I am not particularly familiar with NJ law, so take this at face value. It would seem to me that perhaps there are two solutions to your problem. First, is there any reason that your cousin could not obtain the proper liscense prior to selling you the gun? If not, that may be the easiest solution to your problem. The other possible solution that I see is to take the gun to a local FFL and have him complete a transfer thusly making the gun legally purchased from a liscensed dealer. Most dealers in my area will complete such a transaction for a small fee.