Glock Springs

keys85 · February 24, 2009, 04:54 PM

There's probably no argument in saying that glock pistols are undersprung - especially their .40's.

Specifically pertaining to the glock 19 and 23 pistols, can someone give me an understanding as to WHY glock used the same recoil # spring in both chamberings?

The 40 is significantly more powerful than the 9mm in terms of putting demands on the pistol. It shoots a larger, heavier bullet at equal or faster speeds and has more energy, momentum, and more felt recoil. If the stock recoil spring is 18#, why didn't glock fit the model 23 with at least a 20# spring? I would think a slightly heavier spring would help the pistol cope with the harsher recoil, lowering slide velocity and possibly reducing wear and tear on the pistol.

goodspeed(TPF) · February 24, 2009, 05:54 PM

If you would have ever seen the slides side by side you would know. And I think Gaston Glock would beg to differ with your "hypothesis".

Alleykat · February 26, 2009, 08:53 PM

Keys: You got it right, but you, as an intelligent, informed consumer, who probably passed h.s. physics, have different priorities than do Glock's engineers. Glock uses the same spring on a G20 as on a G21 and a G17. Make REAL sense? Nah. It's called "economy of manufacturing." Go to gunsprings.com and go by Wolff Springs' guidelines for choosing recoil spring weight. I alway tailor my recoil springs' strength to the load/caliber I'm shooting.

Brian Pfleuger · February 26, 2009, 09:21 PM

It's also entirely possible that the spring is adequate on the heavy side for a 9 and adequate on the light side for the 40. For instance, Wolff lists the same springs for the 9, 40 and 357 so I'd say Glock is not "cheaping out" on the springs.

They're also only like $30 for the rod and all from Wolff so you should probably just change it out if you don't like the idea.

Japle · February 27, 2009, 11:45 AM

If Glocks were undersprung, they would suffer from battering. They'd get beat up. They don't.

Plenty of people cut a coil or 2 off the G17 & G19 springs. It doesn't hurt the guns at all.

Harry Bonar · February 27, 2009, 12:17 PM

Sir;
Both cartridges operate at the same pressure - the .40 has more head area but not enough to matter.
Harry B.

longrifles, Inc · February 28, 2009, 02:45 AM

I've used the same Glock 19 here in Baghdad for almost 3 years.

I've put more rounds through it then I can count. well over 20K.

I put grip tape on the sides cause my hands sweat in the summer and the gun gets a bit slippery.

That's it.

If I had one gripe it's the mag well. I wish they'd just fill in that back portion as occasionally during magazine exchanges the rim of the case will snag the edge. I know they make the plug for this but I don't have one.

I've shot this gun so much that its uncomfortable against my thigh due to the heat when it's holstered at times. Especially during summer months here.

Just shoot it. They aren't pretty, they aren't elegant, but they sure do work good 99.99% of the time. (I do occasionally get a malfunction, but very rare for the number of rounds I put through it.) I go home for month long breaks and my duty loads just sit in the magazines with them fully compressed. I pull these bullets when I come back to re qualify and they work just fine.

I've always advocated the 1911 just because I like metal guns and triggers that feel like a trigger, but a Glock is so easy to use and so easy to teach that it's hard to talk bad about it.

keys85 · March 1, 2009, 03:10 AM

LOL Did you run that gun for 20,000 with the same, stock recoil spring?

longrifles, Inc · March 1, 2009, 11:01 AM

YES.

The only thing I've done on this gun is replace the mag release. The reset spring got hung up and bent to crap about a year and a half ago.

That's IT.

longrifles, Inc · March 1, 2009, 11:14 AM

Personal demonstration:

This was done four days ago.

goodspeed(TPF) · March 1, 2009, 12:52 PM

Nice!

Alleykat · March 3, 2009, 12:54 PM

As a matter of fact, if you shoot enough full-power loads through a G20 with the "standard" 17# spring, you will see battering of the frame. By "economy of manufacturing," I supposed I should have said, "economy of motion." It's not that Glock's trying to "cheap out," but rather that it's better for them to use the same spring in pistols of the same frame size, so as not to confuse the ignorant proletariat. It's just as simple as rudimentary h.s. physics. Once again, go by Wolff Springs' guidelines. If your pistol's throwing brass farther than about 8', then you need a stronger spring.

keys85 · March 4, 2009, 11:07 PM

Does the barrel travel the same distance from its locked position to unlocked position between the Glock 19 and Glock 23?

Can you put a glock 19 slide onto a glock 23 frame?

goodspeed(TPF) · March 5, 2009, 09:15 AM

Yes.

Yes.

totalloser · March 6, 2009, 02:39 AM

Here's a better question; Is the ANGLE and contact surface on the delayed blowback mechanism (square locking lug) the same? If you don't know what this means, you should be hesitant to criticize Glock's engineering. Complain about something more relevant, like the funky trigger pull.

The only wear you will find from the action operating are little dings on the slide rails where the frame rails bump the slide when the delayed blowback mechanism disengages. Be ready for a frown when you look if you haven't looked before, but it's no big deal.

keys85 · March 6, 2009, 03:08 AM

I know what this means. Well, IS the angle the same? I would guess that would have to be if you can put a G19 slide on a G23 frame.

Same spring same lock mechanism, ok, well, since the .40 has more momentum but both rounds operate at the same pressure and slide mass is negligible...can I assume slide velocities would be greater in the .40? I mean, a 115 grain bullet at 1300 feet per second has a bit less push to it than a 135 grain bullet at the same speed.

**JohnKSa** · March 6, 2009, 04:08 AM

Assuming similar slide+barrel weight the .40 slide velocity will be about 15%-18% faster than the 9mm.

keys85 · March 6, 2009, 04:24 AM

Correct...and actually the .40 barrel is lighter than the 9mm barrel. This is because the Glock 19 and Glock 23 are essentially the same gun, the 9mm version converted to .40. The 9mm barrel actually has more meat to it. The .40 barrels are like 9mm barrels honed out to .40 caliber. The barrel walls are considerably thinner than the 9mm barrels.

So this 18% or so increase in slide velocity, would benefit from a 1 or 2 pound extra heavy recoil spring? For the gun's sake, I can understand it will work just fine as is, but, I would think it would reduce the sharp recoil impulse to a more longer duration - kinda like a 9mm pop to a .45 push. Now, whether Glock cared about this factor or not I guess is irrelevant the only negative thing I can think is that a heavier spring would increase chance of limp wristing?

Skans · March 6, 2009, 01:51 PM

People rave about Glock. In my very humble opinon, there is only one "perfect" Glock. The original Glock 17. Glocks were meant to be 9mm's.

goodspeed(TPF) · March 6, 2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

The .40 barrels are like 9mm barrels honed out to .40 caliber.

Wrong.

Quote:

Assuming similar slide+barrel weight

They are different.

February 24, 2009, 04:54 PM	#1
keys85 Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 199	Glock Springs There's probably no argument in saying that glock pistols are undersprung - especially their .40's. Specifically pertaining to the glock 19 and 23 pistols, can someone give me an understanding as to WHY glock used the same recoil # spring in both chamberings? The 40 is significantly more powerful than the 9mm in terms of putting demands on the pistol. It shoots a larger, heavier bullet at equal or faster speeds and has more energy, momentum, and more felt recoil. If the stock recoil spring is 18#, why didn't glock fit the model 23 with at least a 20# spring? I would think a slightly heavier spring would help the pistol cope with the harsher recoil, lowering slide velocity and possibly reducing wear and tear on the pistol.

February 24, 2009, 05:54 PM	#2
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	If you would have ever seen the slides side by side you would know. And I think Gaston Glock would beg to differ with your "hypothesis". __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

February 26, 2009, 09:21 PM	#4
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	It's also entirely possible that the spring is adequate on the heavy side for a 9 and adequate on the light side for the 40. For instance, Wolff lists the same springs for the 9, 40 and 357 so I'd say Glock is not "cheaping out" on the springs. They're also only like $30 for the rod and all from Wolff so you should probably just change it out if you don't like the idea. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 27, 2009, 12:17 PM	#6
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	glock Sir; Both cartridges operate at the same pressure - the .40 has more head area but not enough to matter. Harry B.

March 1, 2009, 12:52 PM	#11
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	Nice! __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

February 26, 2009, 08:53 PM	#3
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	Keys: You got it right, but you, as an intelligent, informed consumer, who probably passed h.s. physics, have different priorities than do Glock's engineers. Glock uses the same spring on a G20 as on a G21 and a G17. Make REAL sense? Nah. It's called "economy of manufacturing." Go to gunsprings.com and go by Wolff Springs' guidelines for choosing recoil spring weight. I alway tailor my recoil springs' strength to the load/caliber I'm shooting.

February 27, 2009, 11:45 AM	#5
Japle Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: Viera, Florida Posts: 1,340	If Glocks were undersprung, they would suffer from battering. They'd get beat up. They don't. Plenty of people cut a coil or 2 off the G17 & G19 springs. It doesn't hurt the guns at all.

February 28, 2009, 02:45 AM	#7
longrifles, Inc Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2009 Location: Sturgis, South Dakota Posts: 152	I've used the same Glock 19 here in Baghdad for almost 3 years. I've put more rounds through it then I can count. well over 20K. I put grip tape on the sides cause my hands sweat in the summer and the gun gets a bit slippery. That's it. If I had one gripe it's the mag well. I wish they'd just fill in that back portion as occasionally during magazine exchanges the rim of the case will snag the edge. I know they make the plug for this but I don't have one. I've shot this gun so much that its uncomfortable against my thigh due to the heat when it's holstered at times. Especially during summer months here. Just shoot it. They aren't pretty, they aren't elegant, but they sure do work good 99.99% of the time. (I do occasionally get a malfunction, but very rare for the number of rounds I put through it.) I go home for month long breaks and my duty loads just sit in the magazines with them fully compressed. I pull these bullets when I come back to re qualify and they work just fine. I've always advocated the 1911 just because I like metal guns and triggers that feel like a trigger, but a Glock is so easy to use and so easy to teach that it's hard to talk bad about it.

March 1, 2009, 03:10 AM	#8
keys85 Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 199	LOL Did you run that gun for 20,000 with the same, stock recoil spring?

March 1, 2009, 11:01 AM	#9
longrifles, Inc Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2009 Location: Sturgis, South Dakota Posts: 152	YES. The only thing I've done on this gun is replace the mag release. The reset spring got hung up and bent to crap about a year and a half ago. That's IT.

March 1, 2009, 11:14 AM	#10
longrifles, Inc Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2009 Location: Sturgis, South Dakota Posts: 152	Personal demonstration: This was done four days ago.

March 3, 2009, 12:54 PM	#12
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	As a matter of fact, if you shoot enough full-power loads through a G20 with the "standard" 17# spring, you will see battering of the frame. By "economy of manufacturing," I supposed I should have said, "economy of motion." It's not that Glock's trying to "cheap out," but rather that it's better for them to use the same spring in pistols of the same frame size, so as not to confuse the ignorant proletariat. It's just as simple as rudimentary h.s. physics. Once again, go by Wolff Springs' guidelines. If your pistol's throwing brass farther than about 8', then you need a stronger spring.

March 4, 2009, 11:07 PM	#13
keys85 Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 199	Does the barrel travel the same distance from its locked position to unlocked position between the Glock 19 and Glock 23? Can you put a glock 19 slide onto a glock 23 frame?

March 5, 2009, 09:15 AM	#14
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	Yes. Yes. __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

March 6, 2009, 02:39 AM	#15
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	Here's a better question; Is the ANGLE and contact surface on the delayed blowback mechanism (square locking lug) the same? If you don't know what this means, you should be hesitant to criticize Glock's engineering. Complain about something more relevant, like the funky trigger pull. The only wear you will find from the action operating are little dings on the slide rails where the frame rails bump the slide when the delayed blowback mechanism disengages. Be ready for a frown when you look if you haven't looked before, but it's no big deal. __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.

March 6, 2009, 03:08 AM	#16
keys85 Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 199	I know what this means. Well, IS the angle the same? I would guess that would have to be if you can put a G19 slide on a G23 frame. Same spring same lock mechanism, ok, well, since the .40 has more momentum but both rounds operate at the same pressure and slide mass is negligible...can I assume slide velocities would be greater in the .40? I mean, a 115 grain bullet at 1300 feet per second has a bit less push to it than a 135 grain bullet at the same speed.

March 6, 2009, 04:08 AM	#17
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,985	Assuming similar slide+barrel weight the .40 slide velocity will be about 15%-18% faster than the 9mm. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

March 6, 2009, 04:24 AM	#18
keys85 Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 199	Correct...and actually the .40 barrel is lighter than the 9mm barrel. This is because the Glock 19 and Glock 23 are essentially the same gun, the 9mm version converted to .40. The 9mm barrel actually has more meat to it. The .40 barrels are like 9mm barrels honed out to .40 caliber. The barrel walls are considerably thinner than the 9mm barrels. So this 18% or so increase in slide velocity, would benefit from a 1 or 2 pound extra heavy recoil spring? For the gun's sake, I can understand it will work just fine as is, but, I would think it would reduce the sharp recoil impulse to a more longer duration - kinda like a 9mm pop to a .45 push. Now, whether Glock cared about this factor or not I guess is irrelevant the only negative thing I can think is that a heavier spring would increase chance of limp wristing?

March 6, 2009, 01:51 PM	#19
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	People rave about Glock. In my very humble opinon, there is only one "perfect" Glock. The original Glock 17. Glocks were meant to be 9mm's.