45lc for Vaquero and Lever gun . . info needed.

tbird911 · October 29, 2007, 07:28 PM

Hi All,

I have a new Vaquero 4 5/8" stainless and a Puma 16" stainless lever gun on the way. Both of these are chambered 45 colt. I have been reloading 10mm pistol rounds for about 6 months, but 45lc is new for me.
I have also purchase some Tite Group and Trailboss powder. I’m Just getting into this SA thing and I have some questions . . .

1.)I’m using Trailboss & Tite Group in the gun configs mentioned above- anyone got some good pet loads? Paper punching and cowboy style.

2.) really stupid, ut here it goes . . . I wanted both short and long gun in .45 colt so that I could keep things simple. Are the .45lc rifle loads and pistol loads done in the same brass or is the brass used to load 45lc pistol different than the brass used to load 45lc rifle?

3.) I will be using primarily lead bullets (Oregon Trail, Precision etc.) I have made loads in 10mm handgun and never had to worry about lube. Will I need to physical do anything different in the .45lc for pistol or rifle? I use a lee 4-hole turret press and already have the full die set with factory crimp. Any advice is welcome.

5.) Can anyone sugges a really inexpensive starter holster that will fit on a regular belt and still look kind of "period?"

6.) Any links to reloading 45lc in rifle and or pistol appreciated . . .
I'll be sure and post range reports on the two when I get them.

Thanks in advance,

Tbird

CraigC · October 29, 2007, 07:45 PM

1. I have yet to use Titegroup in the .45Colt but I've had great results with it in the .44's in the 700-1100fps range. The old standby for the .45Colt is Unique running 7.0-9.0gr for about 100fps for each grain of powder with 250-260gr cast bullets. Nine grains with a 250gr RNFP is about equivalent to original blackpowder loads.

2. There is no difference between cases used in rifle or pistol. Starline is a favorite but I've had equal success with PMC, Speer, Federal and Winchester brass. If you end up loading some warm loads that you do not want to end up in another gun, you 'can' designate one particular brand for those loads. Your New Vaquero can handle Colt SAA-level loads only, not those "Ruger-only" loads listed in manuals. Your rifle can handle substantially more pressure than even the large frame Rugers. Use the headstamp to reference pressure level if you venture that far.

3. You don't have to do anything special with commercial cast bullets. Most are very hard so you want them running at a fair pressure level. Mousefart loads will produce leading. Depending on the rifle you can usually run them up to 1400-1600fps without excessive leading. Any more and you want a gas check.

6. LoadData.com is a great reference. For $30/yr you get access to all the data from Handloader and Rifle magazines with new stuff added all the time.

Hafoc · October 29, 2007, 08:02 PM

I've never used Titegroup or Trail Boss. Bought some Trail Boss but I'm using up my old Unique.

But from what I have heard, Titegroup and Trail Boss are both good for the .45 Colt. The Colt has huge case capacity, since it was designed for black powder that needs much larger charges than does smokeless. Trail Boss handles the Colt's big volume by being "fluffy" enough to fill most of it. My friends who love Titegroup says it handles the Colt's big volume by being designed to ignite more uniformly than other smokeless handgun powders, when loose inside a large case. It ignites fairly consistently regardless of its position in the case, in other words. Don't know if that's true, but it sounds nice in theory.

With Titegroup, though, you'd still have a tiny charge of powder rattling around in a great big empty case. This can get you dead because it makes it easy to put multiple charges of powder in the case without noticing. In case you had any doubts, double-charging a case meets the operational definition of Bad. I suggest you get a good powerful little flashlight, throw the charges for all your block of cartridges before you seat any bullets, and look down the cases to make sure they all have the same amount of powder in them, just to be sure. That's my advice (and it's worth just what you paid for it, probably).

Make sure to seat the bullet at a proper depth, so you keep the cartridge's overall length within specifications. Your rifle's feed mechanism will thank you for it.

If you're loading for rifle as well as revolver you should probably be looking for a bullet with a flat point, so that the recoil of firing can't jostle the cartridges in your rifle's tubular magazine together hard enough that the tip of one bullet sets off the primer of the cartridge in front of it. If this happens, it also meets the operational definition of Bad. I don't know how likely it is that a traditional .45 Colt round nose would be sharp enough to do this. But since there are .45 Colt lever guns now, as there never were in the Old Days, a lot of bullet makers and ammunition makers use the RNFP (Round Nose Flat Point) instead of a traditional RN. The RNFP is what it sounds like; a round nose with the very end flattened off, just to make it safer in tubular magazines. It will work just as well as a traditional round nose and it might be a bit safer, so why not use it?

Speaking of powders again, Unique is a classic for the .45 Colt. But the Old Unique I'm using up is filthy-burning stuff. New Unique was reformulated and is supposed to be cleaner. I suspect Titegroup and Trail Boss will work fine for you, but if it turns out they don't, New Unique might be another one to consider.

tbird911 · October 29, 2007, 08:29 PM

This exactly the stuff I'm looking for. I figured on starline brass, anyone got the source for he best price? I also figured lead rnfp bullets-- I've used precision and lazercast-- anyone got other inexpensive favorites? Anyone need to trade or want to buy some 10mm brass?

El Gato

CraigC · October 29, 2007, 11:59 PM

I used to get all my cast bullets from a semi-local caster in Florida when I lived there. Good bullets and good prices. Oregon Trail is also very good and they have a nice selection of gas-checked bullets too. I just received my first order from Leadhead's for 1000 .44 Keith bullets and it showed up quickly. Appear to be more affordable than larger commercial casters from places like Midway and they don't have Beartooth's backlog of several months.

http://www.proshootpro.com/

sundance44s · October 30, 2007, 08:12 AM

I`ve loading the Trailboss powder in 45lc for a year or so now ..I started with Winchester large pistol primmers ...as of late I switched to CCI large pistol primmers and noticed alot of the blowback has stopped and my cases look much cleaner after fireing ...I thank Winchester for the rise in price of their primmers which caused me to try the cheaper CCI primmers..
The Trailboss powder does fill the large case better than most ..and blowback has always been a problem with this large straight walled case .

notbubba · October 30, 2007, 02:53 PM

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/index.php

IMR has a link for loading.

I used the site for for loading up .38
Worked dang good for me.

I think you should work up a load for your pistol & see how it work in your rifle.

Throckmorton · November 6, 2007, 10:02 PM

LaserCast makes a great bullet,but they are one of the most expensive on the market from what I can tell.
I"ve read good things on the net about a company called Moulten lead,they weill be the next source I try out.
NOt all die sets are created equal..not all 45lc dies apply a roll crimp,which I feel is best.Most cast bullets come with a crimping groove,so a roll crimp is the way to go.Keeps the bullet where it belongs,especailly in a carbine's ma tube.
rnfp is the way to go for bullet style since you are also loading for a carbine.

sundance44s · November 7, 2007, 08:29 AM

The price of lead has been going up here lately like the price of gas ...I ordered 2 boxes of Oregon Trail laser cast 45 lc 250 gr bullets ..500 per box from Cabelas.
The price was suppose to be 59 bucks ..but because of the rise in lead prices they said it was going to be 64 bucks instead . I really like these bullets you can get them with the beveled base which makes for easyer loading . maybe 2 boxes will last me a week or 2 ..lol
Funny they say the price of lead goes up and down ..well I can tell ya it`s done nothing but rise for the last 5 years . 5 years ago I was paying 1.23 a lb for pure lead bars for casting now I`m paying 2.45 a lb for the same bars .
I did find some scrap lead pipes for 80 cents a lb so I bought the whole 200 lbs of it the guy had ...Sure hope that last a while .

a454me · November 7, 2007, 08:49 AM

If you find someone that sells "Oklahoma Leather" products they make some inexpensive holsters that fit a regular belt ,you can also buy them from Cabelas .

October 29, 2007, 07:28 PM	#1
tbird911 Junior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 5	45lc for Vaquero and Lever gun . . info needed. Hi All, I have a new Vaquero 4 5/8" stainless and a Puma 16" stainless lever gun on the way. Both of these are chambered 45 colt. I have been reloading 10mm pistol rounds for about 6 months, but 45lc is new for me. I have also purchase some Tite Group and Trailboss powder. I’m Just getting into this SA thing and I have some questions . . . 1.)I’m using Trailboss & Tite Group in the gun configs mentioned above- anyone got some good pet loads? Paper punching and cowboy style. 2.) really stupid, ut here it goes . . . I wanted both short and long gun in .45 colt so that I could keep things simple. Are the .45lc rifle loads and pistol loads done in the same brass or is the brass used to load 45lc pistol different than the brass used to load 45lc rifle? 3.) I will be using primarily lead bullets (Oregon Trail, Precision etc.) I have made loads in 10mm handgun and never had to worry about lube. Will I need to physical do anything different in the .45lc for pistol or rifle? I use a lee 4-hole turret press and already have the full die set with factory crimp. Any advice is welcome. 5.) Can anyone sugges a really inexpensive starter holster that will fit on a regular belt and still look kind of "period?" 6.) Any links to reloading 45lc in rifle and or pistol appreciated . . . I'll be sure and post range reports on the two when I get them. Thanks in advance, Tbird __________________ Tbird911

October 29, 2007, 08:29 PM	#4
tbird911 Junior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 5	Thanks guys . . . This exactly the stuff I'm looking for. I figured on starline brass, anyone got the source for he best price? I also figured lead rnfp bullets-- I've used precision and lazercast-- anyone got other inexpensive favorites? Anyone need to trade or want to buy some 10mm brass? El Gato __________________ Tbird911

October 30, 2007, 02:53 PM	#7
notbubba Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2001 Location: Jackson Michigan Posts: 790	http://www.imrpowder.com/data/index.php IMR has a link for loading. I used the site for for loading up .38 Worked dang good for me. I think you should work up a load for your pistol & see how it work in your rifle. __________________ www.mcrgo.org Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners

October 29, 2007, 07:45 PM	#2
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	1. I have yet to use Titegroup in the .45Colt but I've had great results with it in the .44's in the 700-1100fps range. The old standby for the .45Colt is Unique running 7.0-9.0gr for about 100fps for each grain of powder with 250-260gr cast bullets. Nine grains with a 250gr RNFP is about equivalent to original blackpowder loads. 2. There is no difference between cases used in rifle or pistol. Starline is a favorite but I've had equal success with PMC, Speer, Federal and Winchester brass. If you end up loading some warm loads that you do not want to end up in another gun, you 'can' designate one particular brand for those loads. Your New Vaquero can handle Colt SAA-level loads only, not those "Ruger-only" loads listed in manuals. Your rifle can handle substantially more pressure than even the large frame Rugers. Use the headstamp to reference pressure level if you venture that far. 3. You don't have to do anything special with commercial cast bullets. Most are very hard so you want them running at a fair pressure level. Mousefart loads will produce leading. Depending on the rifle you can usually run them up to 1400-1600fps without excessive leading. Any more and you want a gas check. 6. LoadData.com is a great reference. For $30/yr you get access to all the data from Handloader and Rifle magazines with new stuff added all the time.

October 29, 2007, 08:02 PM	#3
Hafoc Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Posts: 552	I've never used Titegroup or Trail Boss. Bought some Trail Boss but I'm using up my old Unique. But from what I have heard, Titegroup and Trail Boss are both good for the .45 Colt. The Colt has huge case capacity, since it was designed for black powder that needs much larger charges than does smokeless. Trail Boss handles the Colt's big volume by being "fluffy" enough to fill most of it. My friends who love Titegroup says it handles the Colt's big volume by being designed to ignite more uniformly than other smokeless handgun powders, when loose inside a large case. It ignites fairly consistently regardless of its position in the case, in other words. Don't know if that's true, but it sounds nice in theory. With Titegroup, though, you'd still have a tiny charge of powder rattling around in a great big empty case. This can get you dead because it makes it easy to put multiple charges of powder in the case without noticing. In case you had any doubts, double-charging a case meets the operational definition of Bad. I suggest you get a good powerful little flashlight, throw the charges for all your block of cartridges before you seat any bullets, and look down the cases to make sure they all have the same amount of powder in them, just to be sure. That's my advice (and it's worth just what you paid for it, probably). Make sure to seat the bullet at a proper depth, so you keep the cartridge's overall length within specifications. Your rifle's feed mechanism will thank you for it. If you're loading for rifle as well as revolver you should probably be looking for a bullet with a flat point, so that the recoil of firing can't jostle the cartridges in your rifle's tubular magazine together hard enough that the tip of one bullet sets off the primer of the cartridge in front of it. If this happens, it also meets the operational definition of Bad. I don't know how likely it is that a traditional .45 Colt round nose would be sharp enough to do this. But since there are .45 Colt lever guns now, as there never were in the Old Days, a lot of bullet makers and ammunition makers use the RNFP (Round Nose Flat Point) instead of a traditional RN. The RNFP is what it sounds like; a round nose with the very end flattened off, just to make it safer in tubular magazines. It will work just as well as a traditional round nose and it might be a bit safer, so why not use it? Speaking of powders again, Unique is a classic for the .45 Colt. But the Old Unique I'm using up is filthy-burning stuff. New Unique was reformulated and is supposed to be cleaner. I suspect Titegroup and Trail Boss will work fine for you, but if it turns out they don't, New Unique might be another one to consider.

October 29, 2007, 11:59 PM	#5
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	I used to get all my cast bullets from a semi-local caster in Florida when I lived there. Good bullets and good prices. Oregon Trail is also very good and they have a nice selection of gas-checked bullets too. I just received my first order from Leadhead's for 1000 .44 Keith bullets and it showed up quickly. Appear to be more affordable than larger commercial casters from places like Midway and they don't have Beartooth's backlog of several months. http://www.proshootpro.com/

October 30, 2007, 08:12 AM	#6
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I`ve loading the Trailboss powder in 45lc for a year or so now ..I started with Winchester large pistol primmers ...as of late I switched to CCI large pistol primmers and noticed alot of the blowback has stopped and my cases look much cleaner after fireing ...I thank Winchester for the rise in price of their primmers which caused me to try the cheaper CCI primmers.. The Trailboss powder does fill the large case better than most ..and blowback has always been a problem with this large straight walled case .

November 6, 2007, 10:02 PM	#8
Throckmorton Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: Washougal,Wa Posts: 126	LaserCast makes a great bullet,but they are one of the most expensive on the market from what I can tell. I"ve read good things on the net about a company called Moulten lead,they weill be the next source I try out. NOt all die sets are created equal..not all 45lc dies apply a roll crimp,which I feel is best.Most cast bullets come with a crimping groove,so a roll crimp is the way to go.Keeps the bullet where it belongs,especailly in a carbine's ma tube. rnfp is the way to go for bullet style since you are also loading for a carbine.

November 7, 2007, 08:29 AM	#9
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	The price of lead has been going up here lately like the price of gas ...I ordered 2 boxes of Oregon Trail laser cast 45 lc 250 gr bullets ..500 per box from Cabelas. The price was suppose to be 59 bucks ..but because of the rise in lead prices they said it was going to be 64 bucks instead . I really like these bullets you can get them with the beveled base which makes for easyer loading . maybe 2 boxes will last me a week or 2 ..lol Funny they say the price of lead goes up and down ..well I can tell ya it`s done nothing but rise for the last 5 years . 5 years ago I was paying 1.23 a lb for pure lead bars for casting now I`m paying 2.45 a lb for the same bars . I did find some scrap lead pipes for 80 cents a lb so I bought the whole 200 lbs of it the guy had ...Sure hope that last a while .

November 7, 2007, 08:49 AM	#10
a454me Member Join Date: September 1, 2002 Location: KY Posts: 21	If you find someone that sells "Oklahoma Leather" products they make some inexpensive holsters that fit a regular belt ,you can also buy them from Cabelas .