Class III FAQ?

Byron · April 28, 2000, 03:51 PM

Is there one? I don't quite understand what is a license and what is a transfer tax or stamp. Is the license $200 one time only, but there are fees for every weapon or suppressor transfered? Maybe there is a place someone can refer me to where all this is explained. Thanks, Byron

BTW, I shot an MP5 the other night; I found by leaning into it just a little, it was very easy to hit with, even emptying the whole magazine at one whack. I watched another guy shoot a Thompson MI, which looked like even more fun, but I didn't get chance at that one. Next time.

fal308 · April 28, 2000, 04:53 PM

The precurser to the BATF set up a system of classifications of firearms. Class one is actually the classification of a dealer. The popular vernicular or slang is that any firearm(s) that most everyone here has in their safe, closet or whereever is class one. In actuality they are title one firearms IIRC. Title one firearms fire one projectile with each pull of the trigger (i.e. bolt-action rifle, lever-action rifle, so-called "assault" rifles, handguns, shotguns).
Title two firearms (class three) are those that fire more than one projectile with each pull of the trigger (i.e. HK MP5, Uzi, M2, Phalanx etc) or any firearm designated a destructive device (i.e. Street Sweeper, Gilbert Equipment USAS etc).
The class designation actually is the classification system of dealers. It goes from class one up to, I believe, class seven. The ones that we, Joe and Jane Citizen, deal with mostly are; class one - who you buy from in the most cases, many gunshops, sporting goods stores, x-Marts etc. Class two is an entity that has been granted manufacturing privledges (including title two weapons - on a gov't letterhead etc) and class three is a dealer who can legally sell and receive interstate title two firearms.
The tax stamp is required for any transaction of a title two firearm (including suppressors) with a few exceptions. The stamp is payable anytime the taxed item exchanges possession. Though if you are at a range and you hand your buddy your Uzi to shoot you have not exchanged the firearm as you still have possession. If you send a taxed item in for repari then you must pay unless you stay with the firearm while it's being worked on. It gets rather complicated.
There are also several forms that must be filled out for any or many reasons; interstate travel included.
For an excellent reference, find a copy of MACHINE GUN Buyers Guide and Owners Manual; Civilian machine Guns Buying, Owning, Transporting, Storing and more... by Frank Iannamico

Schmit · April 29, 2000, 09:02 AM

Got this "Primer" off of one of the Mail Lists I receive.

"The NFA covers what are known as Title II weapons, Destructive Devices (DD's), Short BBL Shotguns/Rifles (SBR, SBS), Machine Guns (MG's), Silencers and Any Other Weapon (AOW). The percise legal definition of each item is pretty lengthy, the short form is;

DD - Things that go BOOM or throw things that go BOOM, (Cannons, hand grenades, flashbangs)
SBR - rifle with a bbl < 16"
SBS - shotgun with a bbl < 18"
MG - shoots more that one shot with a single trigger action. Includes any combination of parts intended to make an MG. (1919 Browning = MG, Gatling Gun <> MG)
Silencer - any device that is intended to muffle the sound of a firearm. ( it matters not if it WORKS, intent is the issue)
AOW - catchall for anything not a pistol, rifle or shotgun, and not covered by the above. Penguns, cane guns, Marbles Game Getters, etc.

Many states permit individual ownership of NFA weapons. The process for an individual owner is to fill out a transfer request Form 4 and submit it to the ATF with phots, fingerprints, LEO certification and the transfer tax. The transfer tax an AOW's is $5, all other catagories are $200. After the transfer is processed (30-120 days), you get to pick up the gun. Anyone who qualifies to own a firearm can get an NFA transfer approved. Once you have the weapon, you generally require ATF approval to transport it interstate. You fill out a request form and ATF sends it back to OK the move. Otherwise, there are no other restrictions. No ATF inspections, no security requirements, nothing more than your state requires of you.

FFL holders can become Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOT's), permiting them to deal in, or mfg NFA firearms. Class 3 is the dealer status, everything except DD's. Class 2 is manufacture, excepting DD's, Class 10 can mfg DD's. They operate exempt of the transfer tax, usually at the reduced rate of $500 per year, ($3000 for Class 10).

The Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 brought us the Hughes Amendment, which added further restrictions on machine guns. The 1968 Gun Control Act prohibited the importation of MG's, except as dealer sales samples. Sales samples can be transfered only to SOT's, but may be retained after they go out of buisness. FOPA made the manufacture of new MG's illegal for individuals. The current classes of MG's are know as;

Transferables - Registered prior to May 19, 1986 ( effective date of the FOPA). These may be owned by any qualified individual.

Pre May Samples - Registered or imported prior to May 19, 1986 as dealer sales samples. Can be transferred only to SOT's or government agencies. SOT's can retain them after they quit the buisness.

Post May Samples - Registered or imported after May 19, 1986. Can transfer only to SOT's, who must provide a demo request letter from an LE agency, or to government agencies. These may NOT be retained after the SOT status lapses, they must be transferred prior to going out of buisness.

There are also firearms that are registered on Form 10, which is for exclusive government use only.

Possession of an unregistered NFA item, or one not registered to you, is punishable by up to 10 years and $250,000. This is why you can't just "borrow" someones SMG to come to class. Even rental proves annoying, since the guns must remain "in control" of the registered owner (or corporate representative, if a corporation). It's been stated on the list that renting Post May Samples is somehow illegal or unethical. This is incorrect. It is true that an individual cannot have these transferred to them, so you can't buy an HK UMP for example. The dealer who wants one must get a demo request from an agency to get the transfer approved. Once the dealer has the gun, there is no restriction on it other that the dealer cannot keep it when they drop the SOT tax. The fact that a gun is transferable only relates to who can be the registered owner. With the spiraling cost of transferable MG's, (think $8000 - $10000 for an MP5), renting transferables is generally unfeasable. Some guns, like the UZI, STEn, or Ingram's have a very good parts supply, and are very simple to maintain. You can replace every part except the receiver on an UZI in about 3 minutes, for under $400. Just replacing the bbl on an MP5 might cost $250, much less all the other parts, which can be hard to come by. This is the main reason Stembridge Gun Rentals sold off all the MG's in inventory, the value was far in excess of what you could recover in rental fees. As a Class 10 mfg, they had many Post Samples, and could make anything they wanted, (the mini-guns for End of Days and Armmegeddon for example).

Since transferables can't be replaced, renting them is not usually the best idea. Of course, if you are not an SOT, or the guns are owned as an investment, transferables are the only way to go. So long as parts are available to restore the gun to near new condition, they will continue to appriciate in value. Front Sight's UZI's for example, will only go up in value. UZI receivers seldom wear out or crack, and since it's currently mfg'd you can get brand new parts to refurbish as needed. The cost is not compleatly unreasonable, < $3000. Good choice for a transferable rental gun. Anyone who would rent out a pristine 1928 overstamp Thompson SMG should have his head examined."

------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

April 28, 2000, 03:51 PM	#1
Byron Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: Sandia Park, NM Posts: 270	Is there one? I don't quite understand what is a license and what is a transfer tax or stamp. Is the license $200 one time only, but there are fees for every weapon or suppressor transfered? Maybe there is a place someone can refer me to where all this is explained. Thanks, Byron BTW, I shot an MP5 the other night; I found by leaning into it just a little, it was very easy to hit with, even emptying the whole magazine at one whack. I watched another guy shoot a Thompson MI, which looked like even more fun, but I didn't get chance at that one. Next time.

April 28, 2000, 04:53 PM	#2
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	The precurser to the BATF set up a system of classifications of firearms. Class one is actually the classification of a dealer. The popular vernicular or slang is that any firearm(s) that most everyone here has in their safe, closet or whereever is class one. In actuality they are title one firearms IIRC. Title one firearms fire one projectile with each pull of the trigger (i.e. bolt-action rifle, lever-action rifle, so-called "assault" rifles, handguns, shotguns). Title two firearms (class three) are those that fire more than one projectile with each pull of the trigger (i.e. HK MP5, Uzi, M2, Phalanx etc) or any firearm designated a destructive device (i.e. Street Sweeper, Gilbert Equipment USAS etc). The class designation actually is the classification system of dealers. It goes from class one up to, I believe, class seven. The ones that we, Joe and Jane Citizen, deal with mostly are; class one - who you buy from in the most cases, many gunshops, sporting goods stores, x-Marts etc. Class two is an entity that has been granted manufacturing privledges (including title two weapons - on a gov't letterhead etc) and class three is a dealer who can legally sell and receive interstate title two firearms. The tax stamp is required for any transaction of a title two firearm (including suppressors) with a few exceptions. The stamp is payable anytime the taxed item exchanges possession. Though if you are at a range and you hand your buddy your Uzi to shoot you have not exchanged the firearm as you still have possession. If you send a taxed item in for repari then you must pay unless you stay with the firearm while it's being worked on. It gets rather complicated. There are also several forms that must be filled out for any or many reasons; interstate travel included. For an excellent reference, find a copy of MACHINE GUN Buyers Guide and Owners Manual; Civilian machine Guns Buying, Owning, Transporting, Storing and more... by Frank Iannamico

April 29, 2000, 09:02 AM	#3
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Mid-FL Posts: 1,857	Got this "Primer" off of one of the Mail Lists I receive. "The NFA covers what are known as Title II weapons, Destructive Devices (DD's), Short BBL Shotguns/Rifles (SBR, SBS), Machine Guns (MG's), Silencers and Any Other Weapon (AOW). The percise legal definition of each item is pretty lengthy, the short form is; DD - Things that go BOOM or throw things that go BOOM, (Cannons, hand grenades, flashbangs) SBR - rifle with a bbl < 16" SBS - shotgun with a bbl < 18" MG - shoots more that one shot with a single trigger action. Includes any combination of parts intended to make an MG. (1919 Browning = MG, Gatling Gun <> MG) Silencer - any device that is intended to muffle the sound of a firearm. ( it matters not if it WORKS, intent is the issue) AOW - catchall for anything not a pistol, rifle or shotgun, and not covered by the above. Penguns, cane guns, Marbles Game Getters, etc. Many states permit individual ownership of NFA weapons. The process for an individual owner is to fill out a transfer request Form 4 and submit it to the ATF with phots, fingerprints, LEO certification and the transfer tax. The transfer tax an AOW's is $5, all other catagories are $200. After the transfer is processed (30-120 days), you get to pick up the gun. Anyone who qualifies to own a firearm can get an NFA transfer approved. Once you have the weapon, you generally require ATF approval to transport it interstate. You fill out a request form and ATF sends it back to OK the move. Otherwise, there are no other restrictions. No ATF inspections, no security requirements, nothing more than your state requires of you. FFL holders can become Special Occupational Taxpayers (SOT's), permiting them to deal in, or mfg NFA firearms. Class 3 is the dealer status, everything except DD's. Class 2 is manufacture, excepting DD's, Class 10 can mfg DD's. They operate exempt of the transfer tax, usually at the reduced rate of $500 per year, ($3000 for Class 10). The Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 brought us the Hughes Amendment, which added further restrictions on machine guns. The 1968 Gun Control Act prohibited the importation of MG's, except as dealer sales samples. Sales samples can be transfered only to SOT's, but may be retained after they go out of buisness. FOPA made the manufacture of new MG's illegal for individuals. The current classes of MG's are know as; Transferables - Registered prior to May 19, 1986 ( effective date of the FOPA). These may be owned by any qualified individual. Pre May Samples - Registered or imported prior to May 19, 1986 as dealer sales samples. Can be transferred only to SOT's or government agencies. SOT's can retain them after they quit the buisness. Post May Samples - Registered or imported after May 19, 1986. Can transfer only to SOT's, who must provide a demo request letter from an LE agency, or to government agencies. These may NOT be retained after the SOT status lapses, they must be transferred prior to going out of buisness. There are also firearms that are registered on Form 10, which is for exclusive government use only. Possession of an unregistered NFA item, or one not registered to you, is punishable by up to 10 years and $250,000. This is why you can't just "borrow" someones SMG to come to class. Even rental proves annoying, since the guns must remain "in control" of the registered owner (or corporate representative, if a corporation). It's been stated on the list that renting Post May Samples is somehow illegal or unethical. This is incorrect. It is true that an individual cannot have these transferred to them, so you can't buy an HK UMP for example. The dealer who wants one must get a demo request from an agency to get the transfer approved. Once the dealer has the gun, there is no restriction on it other that the dealer cannot keep it when they drop the SOT tax. The fact that a gun is transferable only relates to who can be the registered owner. With the spiraling cost of transferable MG's, (think $8000 - $10000 for an MP5), renting transferables is generally unfeasable. Some guns, like the UZI, STEn, or Ingram's have a very good parts supply, and are very simple to maintain. You can replace every part except the receiver on an UZI in about 3 minutes, for under $400. Just replacing the bbl on an MP5 might cost $250, much less all the other parts, which can be hard to come by. This is the main reason Stembridge Gun Rentals sold off all the MG's in inventory, the value was far in excess of what you could recover in rental fees. As a Class 10 mfg, they had many Post Samples, and could make anything they wanted, (the mini-guns for End of Days and Armmegeddon for example). Since transferables can't be replaced, renting them is not usually the best idea. Of course, if you are not an SOT, or the guns are owned as an investment, transferables are the only way to go. So long as parts are available to restore the gun to near new condition, they will continue to appriciate in value. Front Sight's UZI's for example, will only go up in value. UZI receivers seldom wear out or crack, and since it's currently mfg'd you can get brand new parts to refurbish as needed. The cost is not compleatly unreasonable, < $3000. Good choice for a transferable rental gun. Anyone who would rent out a pristine 1928 overstamp Thompson SMG should have his head examined." ------------------ Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"