Trouble With Berry's Plated Bullets

GunGuru · November 9, 2015, 08:19 PM

I'm using a set of RCBS reloading dies for 9mm and my local shooting suppy store has a large stock of berrys plated 115 gr bullets. Whenever I load with them, the nose flattens out, sometimes almost to the point it could be considered a flat point. Is it that the bullets are too soft? Should I change Bullets? or is it the dies?

condor bravo · November 9, 2015, 08:43 PM

The seating stem within the die is apparently a flat point where it should be for a rounded bullet. Perhaps the die manufacturer could furnish a round nose stem. An unlikely possibility might be that too much crimp is being applied by bullet seating and causing the flattening (or the combination of the two items). But the bullet tips are apparently a little soft also.

Jeffm004 · November 9, 2015, 08:49 PM

operator error. I've run with the wrong shaped seating stem and put a mark in the plate but never flattened anything. That's not right. Back everything out and start over, it is not the bullet.

Nick_C_S · November 9, 2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Perhaps the die manufacturer could furnish a round nose stem.

The die manufacturer (RCBS) does.

Use your round nose seater, it'll fix the problem. BTW, Berry's plated 115's are good bullets. Will make good general purpose range ammo.

nogo · November 9, 2015, 09:06 PM

These are swaged bullets and therefore very soft even with the plating.

4runnerman · November 9, 2015, 10:14 PM

I have been using Berry's 45 acp bullets for a few years now. Never had that problem. It has to take a lot to flatten the nose. Is the die set correct?.

noylj · November 9, 2015, 10:19 PM

Swaged bullets today are mostly made using 92/6/2 alloy or very close and NOT the pure lead so many seem to believe. They also need to ship bullets and don't want deformed bullets in the box. Measure the hardness of the swaged bullets and you'll find they are in the 8-12 BHN range that is ideal for almost all handguns.
This isn't to say that PLATED bullets may not use softer lead (as I haven't used a plated bullet in at least 7 years and don't plan to), but commercial swaged lead bullets are NOT as soft as so many think.
Hornady says they use a 95/5 alloy.

Inspect the seating plug and bullet. A seating stem should NEVER touch the bullet meplat—except for full wadcutter bullet where you have no choice. Take the seating plug out and determine if it fits the bullet before you EVER start to seat bullets. Do this for every new bullet. Order a different or a custom seating plug. Don't assume some generic seating plug will work for every bullet.

jag2 · November 9, 2015, 11:09 PM

Are you saying this doesn't happen with other bullets, like a FMJ? You should have a seater plug that works with round nose bullets, it should not be a flat. You need to check that first and like others said just start over with your die, take it apart and give it a good cleaning then refresh yourself on the die instructions and go from there.

FrankenMauser · November 9, 2015, 11:43 PM

Don't crimp while seating the bullets.
Crimp in a separate operation.

hartcreek · November 10, 2015, 01:06 AM

As others have stated it has to be that you are using the wrong seating plug and WAY to much pressure. I have loaded thousands of the 115 grain Berrys 9mm. using RCBS dies with no problems. Use the correct plug. Your die set should have come with two of them like mine did.

GunGuru · November 10, 2015, 06:44 AM

I never thought about the seating plugs before, so I went and looked and it turns out i had a round nose one and a flat nose one and i was using the flat node for the berry's bullets. I switched them and all is well. Thanks for the help.

4runnerman · November 10, 2015, 06:45 AM

I think Frankenmauser hit it. Even the wrong seating plug would not deform the tip. I to think he is crimping and still seating at the same time.

serf 'rett · November 10, 2015, 06:39 PM

^What they said.

Even with the wrong plug, you shouldn't get a large deformation of the bullet tip. You may need to adjust die or seat and crimp in separate steps.

hartcreek · November 11, 2015, 12:56 AM

I am using the same dies as he is and adjusted correctly you can seat and crimp with the RCBS dies......heck I even use a roll crimp.

FrankenMauser · November 11, 2015, 11:49 PM

Quote:

I am using the same dies as he is and adjusted correctly you can seat and crimp with the RCBS dies......heck I even use a roll crimp.

I have the same dies, as well.

What really determines whether or not I need to crimp separately is how well a particular bullet and the cases that I'm using want to play together. Some just can't easily be crimped during seating, without trouble.
After I grew tired of dealing with a few finicky bullets, I simply went to 100% separate crimping.

(Loads worked up in single lots of brass, but then re-tested for usability in a dedicated lot of mixed brass that consists of two of each headstamp that I use. Then, if testing goes well, the load goes on to production brass (my main supply): Generally ~75% Win brass, ~10% R-P, ~5% ATK [FC•, FC, •FC•, Speer, CCI, Blazer, etc] ~5% WCC, and the remainder whatever other headstamps I have [PMP, CBC, PPU, S&B, STD, etc].)

pete2 · November 13, 2015, 11:39 AM

I had the same problem and Frankenmauser is right. Crimp in a separate operation. No more problem. I will add that they shot very well but it ain't the right way to do it. RCBS will make a nose punch to fit them, I had one made but started loading on a Dillon with separate crimp and it stopped the flattening. A made to fit punch dan't hurt tho.

November 9, 2015, 08:19 PM	#1
GunGuru Junior Member Join Date: December 30, 2014 Posts: 6	Trouble With Berry's Plated Bullets I'm using a set of RCBS reloading dies for 9mm and my local shooting suppy store has a large stock of berrys plated 115 gr bullets. Whenever I load with them, the nose flattens out, sometimes almost to the point it could be considered a flat point. Is it that the bullets are too soft? Should I change Bullets? or is it the dies?

November 9, 2015, 08:43 PM	#2
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	The seating stem within the die is apparently a flat point where it should be for a rounded bullet. Perhaps the die manufacturer could furnish a round nose stem. An unlikely possibility might be that too much crimp is being applied by bullet seating and causing the flattening (or the combination of the two items). But the bullet tips are apparently a little soft also. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

November 9, 2015, 10:14 PM	#6
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	I have been using Berry's 45 acp bullets for a few years now. Never had that problem. It has to take a lot to flatten the nose. Is the die set correct?. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

November 9, 2015, 10:19 PM	#7
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	Swaged bullets today are mostly made using 92/6/2 alloy or very close and NOT the pure lead so many seem to believe. They also need to ship bullets and don't want deformed bullets in the box. Measure the hardness of the swaged bullets and you'll find they are in the 8-12 BHN range that is ideal for almost all handguns. This isn't to say that PLATED bullets may not use softer lead (as I haven't used a plated bullet in at least 7 years and don't plan to), but commercial swaged lead bullets are NOT as soft as so many think. Hornady says they use a 95/5 alloy. Inspect the seating plug and bullet. A seating stem should NEVER touch the bullet meplat—except for full wadcutter bullet where you have no choice. Take the seating plug out and determine if it fits the bullet before you EVER start to seat bullets. Do this for every new bullet. Order a different or a custom seating plug. Don't assume some generic seating plug will work for every bullet. Last edited by noylj; November 9, 2015 at 10:39 PM.

November 9, 2015, 11:43 PM	#9
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,427	Don't crimp while seating the bullets. Crimp in a separate operation. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

November 9, 2015, 08:49 PM	#3
Jeffm004 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2013 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 255	operator error. I've run with the wrong shaped seating stem and put a mark in the plate but never flattened anything. That's not right. Back everything out and start over, it is not the bullet.

November 9, 2015, 09:06 PM	#5
nogo Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: central texas Posts: 215	These are swaged bullets and therefore very soft even with the plating.

November 9, 2015, 11:09 PM	#8
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	Are you saying this doesn't happen with other bullets, like a FMJ? You should have a seater plug that works with round nose bullets, it should not be a flat. You need to check that first and like others said just start over with your die, take it apart and give it a good cleaning then refresh yourself on the die instructions and go from there.

November 10, 2015, 01:06 AM	#10
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	As others have stated it has to be that you are using the wrong seating plug and WAY to much pressure. I have loaded thousands of the 115 grain Berrys 9mm. using RCBS dies with no problems. Use the correct plug. Your die set should have come with two of them like mine did.

November 10, 2015, 06:44 AM	#11
GunGuru Junior Member Join Date: December 30, 2014 Posts: 6	I never thought about the seating plugs before, so I went and looked and it turns out i had a round nose one and a flat nose one and i was using the flat node for the berry's bullets. I switched them and all is well. Thanks for the help.

November 10, 2015, 06:45 AM	#12
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	I think Frankenmauser hit it. Even the wrong seating plug would not deform the tip. I to think he is crimping and still seating at the same time. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

November 10, 2015, 06:39 PM	#13
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	^What they said. Even with the wrong plug, you shouldn't get a large deformation of the bullet tip. You may need to adjust die or seat and crimp in separate steps. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

November 11, 2015, 12:56 AM	#14
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	I am using the same dies as he is and adjusted correctly you can seat and crimp with the RCBS dies......heck I even use a roll crimp.

November 13, 2015, 11:39 AM	#16
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I had the same problem and Frankenmauser is right. Crimp in a separate operation. No more problem. I will add that they shot very well but it ain't the right way to do it. RCBS will make a nose punch to fit them, I had one made but started loading on a Dillon with separate crimp and it stopped the flattening. A made to fit punch dan't hurt tho.