Uberti SAA questions

[mordis]

Hi, I have a question regarding the uberti made saa, Like the cattleman or the cimmarron model P. I was reading on the cimmaron website, the manual for the model p, which is uberti made, that according to there manual it is safe to load 6 in the chambers, due to the safety notch activated hammer bar(i think thats what it is called). They say its a solid peice of steel in between the catridge and firing pin, preventing the hammer from striking it.

While i know the transfere bar of the rugers and Tuarus and Berreta are better, how effective is this uberti safety? The reason im considering uberti is i want that four clicks sound. ruger dosent have it, berreta is 3 clicks, from what i heard at the gunstore fondling it, and tuarus are not renowned for there quality.

So i feel im stuck looking at the uberti made guns. How effective is that safety. FWIW I do know that proper gun handling and using the safety between the ears is what is most important.

My usage for this gun is, Mostly backyard carry/plinking and occasional Carry into town when the mood strikes me.

On this and other forums people are saying that the safety on the uberti is crap, but they are a well respected clone maker, so i dont think they would release a crap product then use it on all there singleactions.

Any reviews and advice is welcomed.

[Hawg]

I have a Cimarron and a Cattleman but they're older guns without the safety so I can't help you on that. I don't think you'd regret getting either one. They're good guns, even if you only load five.

[Jim Watson]

I have seen some of these guns and I am not impressed by the "safety bar."
I think it is included only to make up the required quota of "points" for an import license. Best to load five. If I wanted a single action I could trust loaded with six, it would be a Ruger, shortage of clicks notwithstanding. I consider the other systems unproven. But my only use for single actions is SASS where five is the rule anyhow.

[mykeal]

On this and other forums people are saying that the safety on the uberti is crap

Information, but not good information. How about some specific details - what is there about the design that makes it crap on the Uberti but OK on Rugers?

I have seen some of these guns and I am not impressed by the "safety bar."

What is there that doesn't impress you, compared to the Ruger, for instance? How about some data?

I own Rugers and a percussion version of Uberti's Cattleman, but I've not seen this latest cartridge SAA with the transfer bar. Sure would like to know what it is that they did wrong.

[sundance44s]

I`ve heard of some problems with the transfer bar breaking on the Tarus , They do have a life time warrenty , and heard they take a life time to fix it and get it back to ya . I was just about to buy one when I got wind of this and went with the Uberti made Cattleman model ...If 5 shots from a 45 doesn`t stop what I`m shooting at ,, it`s time for me to run , or climb a tree . I probally wouldn`t ever load 6 in a wheel gun anyway , its hard to teach an old dog new tricks .

[Jim Watson]

What is there that doesn't impress you, compared to the Ruger, for instance? How about some data?

The system has six small parts inside the hammer, out of reach of inspection or cleaning. They constitute a safety block, if they don't work - rust or deformation of small bits - the gun is hot. I'd just rather not depend on them, thank you. Ruger has a clearly visible transfer bar which will fail safe. If the transfer bar doesn't rise, the gun won't shoot.

I don't have "data" because, to quote a reliable source (me) the only time I use a single action is for CAS where loading six rounds is not allowed.

[mykeal]

he system has six small parts inside the hammer, out of reach of inspection or cleaning. They constitute a safety block, if they don't work - rust or deformation of small bits - the gun is hot.

That's exactly the kind of data I was looking for. I appreciate the response. Thanks.

There are always people on the boards who express subjective judgment but provide nothing else. I appreciate reading the reason for your opinion.

[mordis]

Jim, thank you for the information. NO one on the other boards provided any kind of information asto why they hate it. I can see why you would think its unsafe, but as someone else said its a unproven design. Im tempted to get it and do some of my own tests to see if infact it works or not.

[Musketeer]

If you want to travel back to the thrilling days of yesteryear by carrying a 45Colt SAA then you need to go all the way and do so with the hammer on an empty chamber. Otherwise fast forward about 100 years.

[Musketeer]

On mine it doesn't appear too firm and as I understand it was only added for importation purposes... Empty chamber for me.

[Hawg]

Carrying the hammer down on an empty is a good idea but folks back in the 19'th century weren't as safety conscious as they are now. I'm not saying it wasn't done back then by some but the majority loaded six. Flame away.

[Hafoc]

You could be right, Hawg. For one thing, notice the Colt or the old S&Ws have hammer notches that barely lift the firing pin off the cartridges. If those weren't intended as safety notches, I don't know what they were for. And if they were meant as safety notches, I'm sure some folks used them for that. Whether or not the safety was effective at all.

But frankly, those old guys were probably as cantankerous as we are today. Probably had about as many opinions and as many different ways to carry a revolver as you can think of.

The one way to carry a revolver that I don't believe in is the old story that gunfighters would roll up a $20 bill and put it in the empty chamber of their revolvers. That way, if they lost in a gunfight, there would be money to pay for a decent funeral. But can you imagine a rolled-up paper in that position being exposed to the blast of five blackpowder cartridges? Somehow, I don't think that $20 bill would be in much shape to buy much of anything after that treatment. You wanted something to flame away? There ya go, right up in smoke.

[sundance44s]

I heard that tale too about the gunfighters rolling up the funeral money and stuffing it into the empty cylinder ...Thinking they must have had money to burn . or maybe the guy that started that tale never fired a 45 with black powder .

[Hawg]

Hafoc, the first notch is the safety notch but it's not very strong and is easily broken. When I got my first SA at the ripe old age of ten I was told to let the hammer down between chambers by a number of "old timers". Percussion Remingtons have a safety notch between chambers, percussion Colt's have a pin between chambers that fits a slot in the hammer. Letting the hammer down betwen chambers makes more sense than leaving one empty, specially during a time when you might need every round. I never heard of the empty chamber deal till I started reading gun mags in the late 60's.

[Jim Watson]

Instructions in a Colt brochure, undated but likely ca 1880:
"The pistol should be carried habitually with the hammer resting in the safety notch."

Of course in 1880 if you knocked the hammer, broke out the safety notch and shot yourself, you would likely just feel stupid and not sue the manufacturer. Unlike the multiple lawsuits that drove Ruger to abandon the basic design and go to a transfer bar as originally offered by Harrington and Richardson.

[Shotgun Willy]

I had a close call with a Ruger Single 6 as a youngster. I was carrying it in a holster with all 6 chambers full when it fell out onto the ground. It landed on the hammer and discharged into the wall right next to me. That was before they put in the safety feature. To say that it got my attention would be an understatement.
With my 1858 I'll trust the notches, haven't decided about the pins on my 1860 though. Anybody got an opinon on the strength/reliability of the pins?

[Hafoc]

Hawg, I'd heard that first notch on the SAA hammer was fragile. I know I shouldn't use it, if I ever have a more or less authentic SAA or clone again. But I swear I remember-- granted, it was a long time ago, and the memory might be false-- reading some gun articles back in the 70s where they were so reluctant to mention the word "safety" and that first hammer notch on the SAA in the same sentence that they claimed complete puzzlement about what purpose that notch could have been meant to serve.

Shotgun, about those pins on Colt-type percussion revolvers? I traded my fake Colts in, so I never wore out the pins on them. They seemed secure enough at the time, but they were pretty small. They didn't give me any confidence that they'd stand up to wear for very long.

I'd heard that trick about dropping the firing pin between the rims of two adjacent cartridges. I sure hope nobody made a habit of doing that with rimfires. Don't know if they're that easy to set off, but I sure don't like the idea.

Mr. Watson, sir? Thanks for the info. That's the first definitive historical quote I've seen on the subject.

[Jim Watson]

Please don't take a 127 year old brochure as a license to carry a SAA in the safety notch. Your heirs' lawyer might find this thread and sue me, too.

I am willing to give up a round of capacity to be safe. All I use a SA for is CAS where that is the rule and is figured into the course of fire.

Most period percussion Colts are found with the safety pins worn off. They built a few 1860s with two sets of cylinder bolt notches so the cylinder would be held more securely between chambers. The Remingtons had notches between the nipples that were more secure and durable. So does a Ruger Old Army.

At one time one of the monster revolver makers, maybe North American when they made bigbores, had detents in the rear face of the cylinder for the firing pin to rest in between chambers. On the other hand, the Virginian Dragoon had outside marks on each side of one chamber so that you could leave it empty and be sure the hammer was down over it by seeing a mark on each side of the topstrap.

We are now instructed to carry a Freedom Arms with an empty chamber under the hammer in spite of the fact that the Model 83 has a hammer block akin to a S&W and the Model 97 has a transfer bar like a Ruger. Of course they are safer if you don't load any of the chambers, but it is hard to get any shooting done that way.

[Hawg]

Of course they are safer if you don't load any of the chambers, but it is hard to get any shooting done that way.

[mordis]

Well, i went to gandermountain and found a uberti cattleman, and went looking for this mysterious hammarbar safety. It was not to be found. I expected to see something, so i could atleast see how strong/weak it is. I guess, it must be deeper in the frame.

From the exploded parts veiws i have seen, id figure a solid peice of steel to be more then enough to stop a hammer from striking a primer. I guess no has ever tried to use it as it was intended.

Musketeer, I dont look at the modern uberti replicas in the same light as colts and usfa. I consider them to be the modern and more updated family memeber. I just dont beleive people carried 5 of 6, especialy during a time when y o u would need every sh ot you could get.

I think that what someone needs to do, maybe ill do it, is get a uberti with that safety notchactivated hammer bar and load up some blanks and test it. See if infact it works or if it is just for import quota. I think its just easier to dismiss it with out any testing, just spouting what the gun mags and lawers tell you to. I guess ill do it, ill beat the everliving crap out of the uberti and see if it works. if not ill go shoot a possum and eat it.

[mordis]

Honestly, tho I love the idea of a much safer and proven idea of the transfer bar. THo, when i went and handled the berreta and Rugers, they didnt sound right. I found and held a Taurus Guacho, and it felt and sounded right. I love the idea of 4 clicks and transfere bar safe. Only problem with that gun, was the name of the manufacturer that makes it.....Taurus. I havnt trusted them since the disasturous ownership of a pt945.(nothing like having your magazine base plate/spring/bullets fall out the bottom of your gun during firing, did it on all the issued magazines. i sold it immediatly afterwards)

If only someone else had made the guacho and put it through a assembly line that actually has some quality control and puts out quality guns. Looks like if i want truly safe, i have to either settle for 2 clicks or 3 clicks... damn depressing.

[mec]

Instructions in a Colt brochure, undated but likely ca 1880:
"The pistol should be carried habitually with the hammer resting in the safety notch

This is a true thing that often gets glossed over. The notch was put there to replace the safety pins between the chambers on the percussion revolvers and was clearly intended as a safety. The mid 1960s ruger booklets that came with Blackhawks and SBHs said that it was safe to carry fully loaded and on the safety notch "In most cases." Somewhere along the line, people began to find out that single actions with six loaded sometimes went off-either because the trigger nose or safety notch broke away when struck or because the dude lowered the hammer all the way onto a primer.
Five shots is the way to go with traditional lockwork

The cimarron /Uberti Model P of current manufacture doesn't have the rube goldberg hammer mounted safety. Instead, it has an import- standards -meeting extra long base pin with an extra notch. You can push it back and lock in in place in the front notch to block the hammer. I don't remember who used this system first but, its been around since shortly after GCA'68


I just got through shooting a couple of Cimarron Model Ps in 32 and 38wcf back to back with first generation colts in the same calibers. The cimarrons are virutally indistinguishable from the originals in handling. they were a bit tight and rough to begin but after a box of ammo and some handling, they were very smooth and well timed. The 32-20 had a little end shake but, I lightly peened the front of the cylinder bushing and removed that. both guns are accurate:

The color case treatement on the frames of these two revolvers is much prettier than some earlier examples of the Cimarron Model P. I don't know if there has been a general improvement or we just got lucky.

[Jim Watson]

I figure another source of ADs (and lawsuits, these days) is the "false half cock". If you ease the hammer down and don't let all the way off the trigger at the right time, you can stop the hammer with the lip of the notch against the trigger sear instead of the undercut of the safety notch. Very little is required to pull or knock it off from that position and with modern sensitive primers...

I think it was Elmer Keith who related griniding both the safety and half cock notches off a SAA hammer. He said it was easy to hold the hammer at the half cock position to reload and you didn't need the safety notch if you loaded five. He said removal of the notches made it less likely the trigger sear would snag and chip with a light trigger pull.

I think ASM originated the long base pin "safety." I have one on a Cimarron made when they were getting guns from ASM instead of Uberti. It is absolutely worthless except for gaining import points.

[mec]

It is absolutely worthless except

Yes.

One gem I heard when I got my Buntline Scout in 1959 was to put the gun on half cock or safety notch from the hammer down position rather than lowering it from full cock to half. This was to avoid setting it as a hair trigger on either of the notches. Somehow I missed the importance of loading only five rounds for several years.- No incidents before I got the word. A guy I went to highschool with didn't get the word. tossed a flattop ruger across the room, hammr hit somethiing and he got shot right between the eyes.

[sundance44s]

I uasually learn things the hard way ...WHAT A LESSON .