What rifle/caliber do you recommend?

Buzzdoc · January 10, 2012, 10:16 AM

I'm heading out west (Alberta) for the first time next year white tail hunting, and I'm using this trip as an excuse to buy a new rifle. I want something that is reliable to 600+ yards, but I also want something that performs well with Eastern white tail and pigs at home. My current 338 RUM is a bit much for Eastern game.

My plan is to buy a synthetic/stainless rifle. I don't want to have to worry about marring up the wood or the finish. I am also not looking to buy some crazy custom whatever that costs an arm an a leg. Ammo price is also a consideration (the 338 RUM costs fortune to shoot). I will put an appropriate scope on whatever rifle I choose, something along the lines of a Nightforce, Leupold Mark 4, etc.

I am leaning toward 300 WSM, but I am not married to that caliber at this point. At least 2 of the other hunters are taking 300 WSM, so that does simplify ammo a bit on the hunt.

My thoughts now are:

Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker in 300 WSM
Winchester M-70 in synthetic or the Extreme Weather version
Kimber 8400 WSM Montana
Sako A7 ST
Tikka T3 Stainless

Any thoughts/ideas/opinions about these or any other alternatives?

EDIT: I don't reload, so I need something that likes to shoot factory ammo straight. I do understand that all of these rifles will very likely outperform me regardless of brand, caliber, and ammo, especially at 500+ yards.

Art Eatman · January 10, 2012, 10:43 AM

How many hundred rounds have you practiced with, out beyond 300 yards? I ask because any and every cartridge will encounter serious problems with wind drift, once beyond 300. It easily turns a kill shot into a crippling, lost critter, shot.

There are quite a few cartridges which will reach out to rather long distances and be very effective at one-shot kills. You don't need to go up into the Magnum class, either.

Most any cartridge which uses a bullet between 130 and 180 grains, with a muzzle velocity around 2,800 ft/sec will work. On deer, I'd not go above 165 grains in a thirty caliber.

If you reasonably expect shots to be in the 300- to 400-yard distance, I wouldn't use less than something like the .270 or general equivalent.

I guess it's obvious that I see the deal as more of a skill thing than a gun thing...

Buzzdoc · January 10, 2012, 10:53 AM

I agree completely that it's more about skill that caliber or rifle. Like I mentioned, I'm using this trip as an excuse to buy a new rifle. I have a Remington 700 in 338 RUM, Sako something in 30-06, Winchester Model 70 in 270, Weatherby Mark V in 270 Weatherby mag, and Remington Model 70 in 300 Weatherby mag that I could take with me, but I'd like to get a new caliber, possibly in a make/model that I don't currently have.

I'm pretty good out to 200-250, but my practice beyond that is limited by access to a range with long distances. I am about to join a club that has 100, 200, 300, and 500 yard ranges, so hopefully I will be able to do my part if I need to.

jimbob86 · January 10, 2012, 11:09 AM

If you are serious about hunting beyond 300, you need to:

1) Know the trajectory, including wind drift and uphill/downhill values of the gun/load that you are using. Efficient bullets and high velocities make the numbers smaller, but beyond 400 yards, they are still significant.

2) practice, a lot. Case lots. At unknown distances 300 yards +, on a target the size of your quarry's kill zone, from field positions with the same equipment you will use while hunting. You can be shooting a STW that will put 5 rounds of the sleekest 7mm bullet ever invented through the same hole in a paper target at 600 yards from a bench on a calm day ...... but if you don't know whether your animal is at 450 or 525 yards, where to hold for the 10mph wind, the 30 degree downhill shot, and be able to hold to make the shot without a bench ......... forget it: get closer.

Saltydog235 · January 10, 2012, 11:23 AM

What the other have said. As far as caliber I'd stay with a long lived standard like the 7mm Rem Mag. Of course many cartridges will fit the bill if you are up to the shot and know the ballistics of the round.

603Country · January 10, 2012, 11:31 AM

You don't have, unless I just missed seeing it, a 280 caliber. I'd suggest either the Sako or the Winchester you mentioned in 280 AI. But wait...you said you don't reload. Of course, with that 270 Weatherby Mag, you really don't need anything new for whitetail deer. You can sight it in for 200 yards and it'll drop 20 inches or less at 400 yards, with a 130 grain bullet. And it'll do the job at 500 yards or more, if you can do your part. And honestly, if I was really going to take shots at 500 yards, I wouldn't do it with factory ammo. If I wasn't a reloader, I'd become a reloader. Most all the really cool calibers require you to reload. Buy some reloading gear and come over to our side.

jimbob86 · January 10, 2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

And honestly, if I was really going to take shots at 500 yards, I wouldn't do it with factory ammo. If I wasn't a reloader, I'd become a reloader.

Twice the premium shots for the same money as 1/2 the bulk ammo ...... that will help with the "case lots of practice" part".

Plus, access to bullets you can't get in factory ammo- Berger VLD's come to mind......

Quote:

Buy some reloading gear and come over to our side.

We have pie .....

Buzzdoc · January 10, 2012, 11:42 AM

603 Country,

That's exactly what I need to do- buy a bunch of reloading gear and complicate my hobby and **** off my wife.

But I'm betting that's exactly what I will do at some point in the future.

Not to hijack my own thread, but what is a good resource (other than this board) for a reloading newby- best reloading equipment, etc, etc...

603Country · January 10, 2012, 11:56 AM

Buzzdoc, you are going to now get tons of info on reloading recommendations. I don't think that it matters much what gear you buy, since it's all good stuff. You could go RCBS or Hornady or Lee and it'll all get you what you need. The Lee would be a bit cheaper. Buying the basic starter kit from any of the 3 mentioned will get you into action. And buy a Lyman #49 Reloading handbook. Once you've picked your caliber for the new rifle, the book will suggest powders and amounts of powder. As for discussions with the wife, be advised that if you don't shoot much reloading won't pay for itself for quite a while. If you do shoot a lot, you can make the claim that there is an economic payout for buying the gear. It might not be true, but you can at least claim it without being an outright liar. Buying used reloading gear can save you tons of money. And read the reloading books you buy before you get started, and/or have a reloader buddy show you the basics. Be safe.

CTS · January 10, 2012, 12:16 PM

+1 for the 7mm Rem mag.

Buzzdoc · January 10, 2012, 12:27 PM

As far as reloading equipment- any reason not to grab the RCBS equipment that my dad and I used 20 years ago that just sits in a drawer now unused- if I decide to start reloading?

Saltydog235 · January 10, 2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

As far as reloading equipment- any reason not to grab the RCBS equipment that my dad and I used 20 years ago that just sits in a drawer now unused- if I decide to start reloading?

No, not one bit. My Rock Chucker is easily 20 years old and probably works better today than it did new.

If you decide on a Sako 75 in say .270 Win, let me know. I got one NIB that needs a home. Nothing wrong with a .270, its just a caliber I have no need for with all the 7mm/.284 stuff I own.

Buzzcook · January 10, 2012, 04:21 PM

Of the rifles you mention I like the Winchester the best. The Sako has a great reputation, never shot one though.

As far as caliber, why not ask the folks you're going to hunt with in Alberta what they use?

The weak link in long distance shooting is usually the shooter, not the rifle or cartridge.

AllenJ · January 10, 2012, 04:39 PM

Buzzdoc if ammo price is a consideration I'd stay away from the short mags and go with the 7mm Rem Mag as others have suggested. Those short fat cartridges are kind of expensive.

I like all your rifle choices but if I had to pick one it would be the Winchester.

If you're shooting those Weatherby Mags I can't believe you have not got that reloading equipment out before now

I have a Rockchucker that was purchased in the 70's and it's still going strong, you should not have any problems with it and if you do RCBS does a great job backing up their warranty.

Art Eatman · January 10, 2012, 10:20 PM

RCBS is as good as any. I've used most every one of the older brands, going back to 1950 plus some inherited gear from way before then. I've bought used dies at gunshows, mostly to be able to check the inside of the sizing die for scratches. Otherwise, never a problem.

Point out to the BossLady that reloading saves money: Keeps you out of the beer joints and pool halls at night.

And, yeah, a 7Maggie is a good cartridge. I messed with one a bit, as well as a .264, but pretty much stayed with my '06. It worked okay in Ma Bell territory.

misterE · January 10, 2012, 11:26 PM

Out of the rifles you listed, I don't own any of them but my brother in law has the browning xbolt in 300 wsm. I've always been a rem 700 man myself but I recently shot his browning and that is one sweet gun. We were sighting in before deer season and he asked if I wanted to shoot his. Of course I'll shoot it I tell him but just give me 2 shells because I know they are high. Well I put both those bullets Into the same hole at 100 yards. We had to walk down there to confirm it and when we got back to the bench I told him give me another shell and let's see what happens. Same hole. Give me another shell, hell let's see how long I can keep this up. Finally on the fourth round I was off 1/2 inch. I'm 32 years old and been shooting bolt action rifles since I was about 8 and I've never shot a one hole 3 shot group until then. I mean, if they will shoot into 1 inch I'm plenty happy with that. Most of my shooting revolves around hunting out to about 200 yards so I have never gotten real serious with super small group size, but at least I know I'm capable.

Rifle was like I said browning x bolt in 300 wsm. Ammo was Winchester 150 grain ballistic silver tips.

Abel · January 10, 2012, 11:42 PM

I would suggest getting to within 200 yards of your deer. Its called hunting. You can use your Sako "something" in 30-06.

warbirdlover · January 11, 2012, 12:16 AM

Sako 75 in .270 Win? THERE'S your rifle IMHO.....

hoffbill · January 11, 2012, 12:26 AM

Selling the wife on reloading is easy. Just work up a spreadsheet to show her how much per round you will save. Just leave out the part that you will be shooting at least twice as much.

hoffbill · January 11, 2012, 12:28 AM

Warbird, you kind of like 270 Win don't you. Me too. What's not to like

jmr40 · January 11, 2012, 12:46 AM

The Winchester EW in 300 WSM is the way I'd go for everything. I found one of the stainless Classics recently and put it in the same B&C stock that comes on the EW. I ended up with the same gun, except no flutes on the barrel. I have only about $400 in the rifle. I also have one of the EW's in 308. Both are absolute tackdrivers, running 1/2 groups at 100 yards for 5 shots.

If you don't handload it will be almost as expensive as the 338 you have. But it will take any animal in North America, and with the range to take deer at 700-800 yards, if the shooter can do it. The 7mm Rem mag will have little flatter trajectory, but not enough to matter until you get beyond 600 yards. The 300 WSM will give you the option to use heavier bullets, better suited for larger game at closer ranges though. Your 338 will become expendable.

I wasn't completely sold on the WSM until after buying mine and using it. I'm a believer. The older 300 Win mag will beat it ballistically, but just by a hair. Only about 50 fps with most loads. I like 2 things about about the WSM over the belted versions. The rifles come in smaller, shorter, lighter packages and get their velocities from shorter barrels. Because the WSM cartridge burns powder more efficiently, you get 300 win mag velocities, with measurably less recoil.

I ran the numbers through one of the on-line recoil calculators and the best 180 gr loads in 8 lb rifles show the 30-06 at about 20 ft lbs of recoil, The 300 Win mag at about 26 ft. lbs and the 300 WSM at the same velocity as the 300 Win mag was 23 ft lbs. I can barely tell the difference in the 3 extra ft lbs of recoil over my 30-06. Going from 20 to 26 ft lbs is manageable to me, but I do notice it.

The other nice thing about the 300 WSM and handloading is that if you don't need the power, you can always load it down to 308 veocities and recoil levels.

5RWill · January 11, 2012, 12:58 AM

7WSM or .284 winchester paired with 180gr Berger VLDs. I've seen people post kills of elk @ 1380yds, Bighorn sheep at 600yds, Black bear at 560yds, the list goes on. Seen the guy shoot to 2000yds. My point being those two or a 7mm Rem mag paired with a 180gr berger are a deadly force for any LR situation within 1500yds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

I would suggest getting to within 200 yards of your deer. Its called hunting. You can use your Sako "something" in 30-06.

Hell he doesn't need that much gun at 200yds. I took a 250+ buck at 253yds this year with a .308 using a moderate load.

As for the hunting part, some people have a fetish for long range i'm one of them. And would honestly like the ability to claim a kill due to a well placed shot at 500yds or so.

Art Eatman · January 11, 2012, 10:57 AM

If ranges beyond 300 are a definite probability, I suggest a laser range finder. It doesn't matter what cartridge is used if the range guess is off by fifty yards. In new and different terrain, it's very easy to misjudge by that much.

I say this because I've seen people guess a hanging plate at 186 yards called 250, and people say about my 500-yard plate, "That looks like a half a mile!" Others have under-estimated boulders that I've lasered by as much as a hundred yards.

Jayhawkhuntclub · January 11, 2012, 11:03 AM

This is a silly thread, IMHO. I don't think anyone capable of shooting well at 600 yards would need to ask the question to begin with.

But you should know that pretty much every sporting round starts dropping like a rock at around 300 yards (some sooner). Knowing the EXACT yardage and drop are critical.

603Country · January 11, 2012, 11:12 AM

Yup, you want a rangefinder. Your own range estimation, without the rangefinder, can be way off and more so if you are hunting unfamiliar ground. When I moved to central Texas I found that I was overestimating distances badly. I grew up in Louisiana, and the trees there are bigger, as are the deer. Moving here, seing smaller trees and smaller deer apparently gave me the impression of longer distances. Makes sense to me now, but it was a surprise back then.

Back when I played a lot of golf, I was great at range estimation.

January 10, 2012, 10:16 AM	#1
Buzzdoc Member Join Date: August 22, 2011 Location: NW Georgia Posts: 17	What rifle/caliber do you recommend? I'm heading out west (Alberta) for the first time next year white tail hunting, and I'm using this trip as an excuse to buy a new rifle. I want something that is reliable to 600+ yards, but I also want something that performs well with Eastern white tail and pigs at home. My current 338 RUM is a bit much for Eastern game. My plan is to buy a synthetic/stainless rifle. I don't want to have to worry about marring up the wood or the finish. I am also not looking to buy some crazy custom whatever that costs an arm an a leg. Ammo price is also a consideration (the 338 RUM costs fortune to shoot). I will put an appropriate scope on whatever rifle I choose, something along the lines of a Nightforce, Leupold Mark 4, etc. I am leaning toward 300 WSM, but I am not married to that caliber at this point. At least 2 of the other hunters are taking 300 WSM, so that does simplify ammo a bit on the hunt. My thoughts now are: Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker in 300 WSM Winchester M-70 in synthetic or the Extreme Weather version Kimber 8400 WSM Montana Sako A7 ST Tikka T3 Stainless Any thoughts/ideas/opinions about these or any other alternatives? EDIT: I don't reload, so I need something that likes to shoot factory ammo straight. I do understand that all of these rifles will very likely outperform me regardless of brand, caliber, and ammo, especially at 500+ yards. Last edited by Buzzdoc; January 10, 2012 at 10:34 AM.

January 10, 2012, 10:43 AM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	How many hundred rounds have you practiced with, out beyond 300 yards? I ask because any and every cartridge will encounter serious problems with wind drift, once beyond 300. It easily turns a kill shot into a crippling, lost critter, shot. There are quite a few cartridges which will reach out to rather long distances and be very effective at one-shot kills. You don't need to go up into the Magnum class, either. Most any cartridge which uses a bullet between 130 and 180 grains, with a muzzle velocity around 2,800 ft/sec will work. On deer, I'd not go above 165 grains in a thirty caliber. If you reasonably expect shots to be in the 300- to 400-yard distance, I wouldn't use less than something like the .270 or general equivalent. I guess it's obvious that I see the deal as more of a skill thing than a gun thing...

January 10, 2012, 10:53 AM	#3
Buzzdoc Member Join Date: August 22, 2011 Location: NW Georgia Posts: 17	I agree completely that it's more about skill that caliber or rifle. Like I mentioned, I'm using this trip as an excuse to buy a new rifle. I have a Remington 700 in 338 RUM, Sako something in 30-06, Winchester Model 70 in 270, Weatherby Mark V in 270 Weatherby mag, and Remington Model 70 in 300 Weatherby mag that I could take with me, but I'd like to get a new caliber, possibly in a make/model that I don't currently have. I'm pretty good out to 200-250, but my practice beyond that is limited by access to a range with long distances. I am about to join a club that has 100, 200, 300, and 500 yard ranges, so hopefully I will be able to do my part if I need to.

January 10, 2012, 11:09 AM	#4
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	If you are serious about hunting beyond 300, you need to: 1) Know the trajectory, including wind drift and uphill/downhill values of the gun/load that you are using. Efficient bullets and high velocities make the numbers smaller, but beyond 400 yards, they are still significant. 2) practice, a lot. Case lots. At unknown distances 300 yards +, on a target the size of your quarry's kill zone, from field positions with the same equipment you will use while hunting. You can be shooting a STW that will put 5 rounds of the sleekest 7mm bullet ever invented through the same hole in a paper target at 600 yards from a bench on a calm day ...... but if you don't know whether your animal is at 450 or 525 yards, where to hold for the 10mph wind, the 30 degree downhill shot, and be able to hold to make the shot without a bench ......... forget it: get closer.

January 10, 2012, 11:23 AM	#5
Saltydog235 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Pawleys Island Posts: 1,563	What the other have said. As far as caliber I'd stay with a long lived standard like the 7mm Rem Mag. Of course many cartridges will fit the bill if you are up to the shot and know the ballistics of the round.

January 10, 2012, 11:31 AM	#6
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	You don't have, unless I just missed seeing it, a 280 caliber. I'd suggest either the Sako or the Winchester you mentioned in 280 AI. But wait...you said you don't reload. Of course, with that 270 Weatherby Mag, you really don't need anything new for whitetail deer. You can sight it in for 200 yards and it'll drop 20 inches or less at 400 yards, with a 130 grain bullet. And it'll do the job at 500 yards or more, if you can do your part. And honestly, if I was really going to take shots at 500 yards, I wouldn't do it with factory ammo. If I wasn't a reloader, I'd become a reloader. Most all the really cool calibers require you to reload. Buy some reloading gear and come over to our side.

January 10, 2012, 11:42 AM	#8
Buzzdoc Member Join Date: August 22, 2011 Location: NW Georgia Posts: 17	603 Country, That's exactly what I need to do- buy a bunch of reloading gear and complicate my hobby and **** off my wife. But I'm betting that's exactly what I will do at some point in the future. Not to hijack my own thread, but what is a good resource (other than this board) for a reloading newby- best reloading equipment, etc, etc...

January 10, 2012, 11:56 AM	#9
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Buzzdoc, you are going to now get tons of info on reloading recommendations. I don't think that it matters much what gear you buy, since it's all good stuff. You could go RCBS or Hornady or Lee and it'll all get you what you need. The Lee would be a bit cheaper. Buying the basic starter kit from any of the 3 mentioned will get you into action. And buy a Lyman #49 Reloading handbook. Once you've picked your caliber for the new rifle, the book will suggest powders and amounts of powder. As for discussions with the wife, be advised that if you don't shoot much reloading won't pay for itself for quite a while. If you do shoot a lot, you can make the claim that there is an economic payout for buying the gear. It might not be true, but you can at least claim it without being an outright liar. Buying used reloading gear can save you tons of money. And read the reloading books you buy before you get started, and/or have a reloader buddy show you the basics. Be safe.

January 10, 2012, 12:16 PM	#10
CTS Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: NE Georgia Posts: 1,070	+1 for the 7mm Rem mag.

January 10, 2012, 12:27 PM	#11
Buzzdoc Member Join Date: August 22, 2011 Location: NW Georgia Posts: 17	As far as reloading equipment- any reason not to grab the RCBS equipment that my dad and I used 20 years ago that just sits in a drawer now unused- if I decide to start reloading?

January 10, 2012, 04:21 PM	#13
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Of the rifles you mention I like the Winchester the best. The Sako has a great reputation, never shot one though. As far as caliber, why not ask the folks you're going to hunt with in Alberta what they use? The weak link in long distance shooting is usually the shooter, not the rifle or cartridge.

January 10, 2012, 04:39 PM	#14
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	Buzzdoc if ammo price is a consideration I'd stay away from the short mags and go with the 7mm Rem Mag as others have suggested. Those short fat cartridges are kind of expensive. I like all your rifle choices but if I had to pick one it would be the Winchester. If you're shooting those Weatherby Mags I can't believe you have not got that reloading equipment out before now I have a Rockchucker that was purchased in the 70's and it's still going strong, you should not have any problems with it and if you do RCBS does a great job backing up their warranty.

January 10, 2012, 10:20 PM	#15
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	RCBS is as good as any. I've used most every one of the older brands, going back to 1950 plus some inherited gear from way before then. I've bought used dies at gunshows, mostly to be able to check the inside of the sizing die for scratches. Otherwise, never a problem. Point out to the BossLady that reloading saves money: Keeps you out of the beer joints and pool halls at night. And, yeah, a 7Maggie is a good cartridge. I messed with one a bit, as well as a .264, but pretty much stayed with my '06. It worked okay in Ma Bell territory.

January 10, 2012, 11:26 PM	#16
misterE Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2009 Location: Benton, Arkansas Posts: 196	Out of the rifles you listed, I don't own any of them but my brother in law has the browning xbolt in 300 wsm. I've always been a rem 700 man myself but I recently shot his browning and that is one sweet gun. We were sighting in before deer season and he asked if I wanted to shoot his. Of course I'll shoot it I tell him but just give me 2 shells because I know they are high. Well I put both those bullets Into the same hole at 100 yards. We had to walk down there to confirm it and when we got back to the bench I told him give me another shell and let's see what happens. Same hole. Give me another shell, hell let's see how long I can keep this up. Finally on the fourth round I was off 1/2 inch. I'm 32 years old and been shooting bolt action rifles since I was about 8 and I've never shot a one hole 3 shot group until then. I mean, if they will shoot into 1 inch I'm plenty happy with that. Most of my shooting revolves around hunting out to about 200 yards so I have never gotten real serious with super small group size, but at least I know I'm capable. Rifle was like I said browning x bolt in 300 wsm. Ammo was Winchester 150 grain ballistic silver tips.

January 10, 2012, 11:42 PM	#17
Abel Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Posts: 1,161	I would suggest getting to within 200 yards of your deer. Its called hunting. You can use your Sako "something" in 30-06.

January 11, 2012, 12:16 AM	#18
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Sako 75 in .270 Win? THERE'S your rifle IMHO.....

January 11, 2012, 12:26 AM	#19
hoffbill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 246	Selling the wife on reloading is easy. Just work up a spreadsheet to show her how much per round you will save. Just leave out the part that you will be shooting at least twice as much.

January 11, 2012, 12:28 AM	#20
hoffbill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 246	Warbird, you kind of like 270 Win don't you. Me too. What's not to like

January 11, 2012, 12:46 AM	#21
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	The Winchester EW in 300 WSM is the way I'd go for everything. I found one of the stainless Classics recently and put it in the same B&C stock that comes on the EW. I ended up with the same gun, except no flutes on the barrel. I have only about $400 in the rifle. I also have one of the EW's in 308. Both are absolute tackdrivers, running 1/2 groups at 100 yards for 5 shots. If you don't handload it will be almost as expensive as the 338 you have. But it will take any animal in North America, and with the range to take deer at 700-800 yards, if the shooter can do it. The 7mm Rem mag will have little flatter trajectory, but not enough to matter until you get beyond 600 yards. The 300 WSM will give you the option to use heavier bullets, better suited for larger game at closer ranges though. Your 338 will become expendable. I wasn't completely sold on the WSM until after buying mine and using it. I'm a believer. The older 300 Win mag will beat it ballistically, but just by a hair. Only about 50 fps with most loads. I like 2 things about about the WSM over the belted versions. The rifles come in smaller, shorter, lighter packages and get their velocities from shorter barrels. Because the WSM cartridge burns powder more efficiently, you get 300 win mag velocities, with measurably less recoil. I ran the numbers through one of the on-line recoil calculators and the best 180 gr loads in 8 lb rifles show the 30-06 at about 20 ft lbs of recoil, The 300 Win mag at about 26 ft. lbs and the 300 WSM at the same velocity as the 300 Win mag was 23 ft lbs. I can barely tell the difference in the 3 extra ft lbs of recoil over my 30-06. Going from 20 to 26 ft lbs is manageable to me, but I do notice it. The other nice thing about the 300 WSM and handloading is that if you don't need the power, you can always load it down to 308 veocities and recoil levels.

January 11, 2012, 10:57 AM	#23
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	If ranges beyond 300 are a definite probability, I suggest a laser range finder. It doesn't matter what cartridge is used if the range guess is off by fifty yards. In new and different terrain, it's very easy to misjudge by that much. I say this because I've seen people guess a hanging plate at 186 yards called 250, and people say about my 500-yard plate, "That looks like a half a mile!" Others have under-estimated boulders that I've lasered by as much as a hundred yards.

January 11, 2012, 11:03 AM	#24
Jayhawkhuntclub Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Posts: 581	This is a silly thread, IMHO. I don't think anyone capable of shooting well at 600 yards would need to ask the question to begin with. But you should know that pretty much every sporting round starts dropping like a rock at around 300 yards (some sooner). Knowing the EXACT yardage and drop are critical.

January 11, 2012, 11:12 AM	#25
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Yup, you want a rangefinder. Your own range estimation, without the rangefinder, can be way off and more so if you are hunting unfamiliar ground. When I moved to central Texas I found that I was overestimating distances badly. I grew up in Louisiana, and the trees there are bigger, as are the deer. Moving here, seing smaller trees and smaller deer apparently gave me the impression of longer distances. Makes sense to me now, but it was a surprise back then. Back when I played a lot of golf, I was great at range estimation.