August 6, 2007, 07:37 PM | #1 |
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S&W 36 trigger pull...
Hi, Y'all!
I'm new here and saw that there are a lot if informed folks here and hope you can help me out. My MIL, about 4'11" and in her 70's, has a Smith 36 that she inherited. She finally got her CCW and we went up to Front Sight in NV for some training for her. She had not tried the 36 prior and found it has an very high trigger pull. It's even hard for me to DA it, and I have strong hands. What is the factory pull supposed to be on these, and what it the best way to reduce it, yet not make it unreliable? I was thinking of getting the Brownell's 13lb. hammer spring, but don't know if that is too much reduction or not. Help, anyone? Skypilot4u |
August 6, 2007, 08:16 PM | #2 |
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Though I can't quote you the exact trigger pull weight on a J-frame offhand, I can tell you that something is very wrong if a man with even average hands, let alone strong hands, has any trouble squeezing it easily. Yes, it's heavy compared to a Glock's 5.5 lb. pull, but 12-15 lbs should be no problem.
I would advise you to get the gun checked out by a gunsmith if you have any doubts about it being in good working order. Regarding how to lighten the pull (if it turns out that the gun is, after all, functioning properly): many recommend against attempting this, particularly if the firearm will be serving in a defensive role, because of ignition reliability issues that may arise from fooling with springs. There are some smiths who can lighten it to a certain degree, but a lot of what they do is smoothing the action. Don't expect too much of a decrease. By the way, are you a new shooter? Have you fired J-frames before? This would be helpful to know, because if you haven't shot these guns before, you may merely have had some unrealistic expectations about how hard it is to squeeze the trigger. Let us know, maybe everything's fine. But again, get it to a smith if you are at all doubtful. |
August 6, 2007, 08:43 PM | #3 |
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Thanks for the info, j-framer
Not a new shooter: shooting since I was 8, and I was a cop in Calif. for about 12 years and part of that time I carried a Charter Arms .38 snubbie. I've also done my own minor gunsmithing over the years as well. The range personnel at Front Sight even said they had never seen a revolver that hard to DA pull. It feels to me like there is something getting in the way of something else inside the works. I must admit I'd never fired a 36 before, and was totally amazed at how hard it was to fire. It looks like someone had the side plate off long ago and had the previous owner's name engraved on it. I'll take it off and check things inside. Update: I took it apart and it looks like there is minimal wearing on the inside surfaces. I put the thing back together and found the trigger pull lighter, but now the cylinder pawl doesn't function. I'm thinking there was a spring that got out of place and is now missing. I was trying to be very careful when disassembling it and did not see anything out of the ordinary, but those tiny little springs can take off like a jet, so...... Any idea where I can find an exploded parts diagram so I can order whatever is missing? I should have known it would end up like this, but I am sometimes just too optimistic for my own good, I guess! Anyway, thanks again for the info! Skypilot4u |
August 6, 2007, 09:14 PM | #4 |
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http://www.e-gunparts.com/productsch...odel=1980z36-1
Click on the picture and it will give you a larger printable copy. This is for a model 36-1, if yours isn't a -1 click on the yellow "start here" in the upper left side and follow the prompts to your model.
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August 6, 2007, 09:28 PM | #5 |
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Thanks Rimrod!
I printed it out and will try to figure out what is missing. Appreciate the help, folks! Skypilot4u |
August 6, 2007, 11:34 PM | #6 |
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Skypilot: Is this a great forum or what? Welcome aboard!! Keep us posted on your progress, I have 2 M36s of my own!
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August 7, 2007, 07:37 AM | #7 |
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Hi, FM12!
Yup, its great to be able to chat with folks of similar interests but wide variety of knowledge. I'll update this post when I figure out the solution to the issue. Thanks for the encouragement! Skypilot4u |
August 7, 2007, 09:17 AM | #8 | |
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Quote:
Take the trigger out. Inside the trigger is a little spring the width of a mechanical pencil lead or so. Find a tiny screwdriver and you can push it back out and hook it back onto the hand. You can't mess it up, because it only goes one way. I looked for a couple hours before I figured out what had happened. Within 5 minutes after finding that spring, it was back in working order. Hope this helps- EW
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August 7, 2007, 01:38 PM | #9 |
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Sounds like the answer!
Thanks, Omegapd!
That certainly sounds like what it could be. I'll check it out tonight (I hope!) and let you know what happens. You folks are great!! Thank You!! SP4u |
August 7, 2007, 01:54 PM | #10 |
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No problem. As soon as you take the hand off, that little spring snaps back down in the trigger. Let us know if that was the trick or not. Good Luck!
Welcome to the forum, too. EW
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August 7, 2007, 03:30 PM | #11 |
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The persistence of the J frame myth - that it's the perfect gun for women, novices, the elderly, or people with little strength - is one of the marvels of the firearms world, where normally hard-headed people spout utter foolishness. J's are small and light, but nothing else recommends them to anyone but a devoted, expert shooter. Their .38 recoil bothers lots of novices and others; the short, fixed sight versions have too little sight radius and the sights they do have are crude and difficult to see under many conditions; and the small grip frames afford too little comfort and stability. Worst of all is their DA pull. You may be working on a defective gun, but even the best are inferior to K frame pulls.
Sell it and get her a 2 1/2" or 3" K frame. |
August 7, 2007, 05:22 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
1. Properly working J frames CAN be an excellent choice for women, novices and the elderly. It's obvious the person starting the thread does not have one, so to use it as an example to substantiate your rant is anal. 2. .38 recoil bothers some, not most by any stretch. It certainly didn't bother the former Miss America of 1940 something who shot a thief on her property a few months back. 3. The sights are fixed(not "crude") because it is a conceal carry piece, not a range piece. 4. Small grips because it is a small gun. How silly would it look with full size grips? 5. My model 36 is older then me and is the ONLY gun my wife with severely arthritic hands can hold and pull the trigger. She can't pull the trigger or even hold up my model 64 at all! Basically, your theories on the J frame are balderdash. |
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August 7, 2007, 09:21 PM | #13 |
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J Frames: I love 'em, carry them as either a BUG or for a main gun off duty.
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August 8, 2007, 06:53 PM | #14 |
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I'm back!
Turns out Omegapd was totally on the money. (Thanks, Opd!) I could hardly see the tiny little spring arm sticking down in the slot in the trigger, but once I got it back over the hand, it rotates the cylinder just fine. Now just have to get the trigger pull to acceptable levels. I found a site that says the factory spring should give 8.5 lbs. pull. (way off from what I was expecting!) An 8 lb. spring is available. I have a coworker who is going to try to find his trigger pull gauge and let me use it to test this thing. I'm guessing it'll read in the 15-20 range. Last night I handed the 36 to my wife to try, since she is much younger (and therefore should be stronger) than her mom, and DA with her left hand she couldn't get the hammer back far enough to drop, and it took a lot of effort for her to drop it with her right hand. She usually shoots a Dan Wesson 15-2VH with no problem, so I don't think it is her "wimpy" trigger finger! I have to agree with gunzrfunz. I think Golddog is kinda missing the whole point of the little 36's. He is entitled to his opinion, but so are we! Will update later with the ongoing saga of the firing resistant 36. BTW, how do you tell the difference between a 36, 36-1, 36-2, etc? The imprint inside the frame just says "Mod. 36". Thanks again for the help, folks! |
August 8, 2007, 09:35 PM | #15 |
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then it is a model 36 no-dash. Like mine, but mine is also a flat-latch putting it's born date of around 1962.
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August 11, 2007, 04:52 PM | #16 |
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I've only worked on two or three of these guns but found the solution the same: reduce binding and friction first. Also, a lot of the weight in the pull is due to the rebound slide spring. It could even be binding in the rebound slide boring itself, but I doubt it, unless one end of the coil is sticking out because someone before you cut it down sloppily.
A lighter rebound slide spring could be used, but it must not hang up or stop short when firing in rapid DA mode if it is for defense purposes. There's not much room for the finger in the little trigger guard so it's easy to short-stroke the trigger this way when you're in a hurry. A lighter spring is most unforgiving on this model. If you replace both springs be sure to have the action honed and checked for binding against the frame, sideplate and the internal parts themselves. After (if) you do this, dry-fire the gun a couple hundred times DA to make sure it will function perfectly under rapid fire. After all this, a seven year-old should be able to operate it. |
August 13, 2007, 01:07 PM | #17 |
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Hi, Tommy1969
I think I will go ahead and take it to a smith. I've tried to get all the workings out to hone them and don't have the expertise to get everything out without prying. Thanks for the info, amigo! SP4u |
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