Possible cause of dud reloads?

45King · November 11, 2001, 08:16 AM

I have had three "dud" reloads happen to me, and I'd like to hear some opinions as to cause.

Two of the reloads were from a batch of 200 rds. of .45 Colt using Unique powder. The first launched the bullet from the barrel, but it hit the gound about 50 ft in front of me (I was aiming at a target out at 50 yds.) The next round "popped," but I saw no bullet strike, so I checked the barrel. Sure enough, bullet was stuck, and when I pushed it out, lots of unburned, yellowed powder came with it. The rest of the reloads in that batch fired fine.

I had the same thing happen with one .38 Spl out of a batch of 200 (VV N-350 powder.) The primer popped, the bullet stuck, and yellowed powder came out with bullet.

I prep all my cases the same way, so any contamination which occurs to one case should occur to all. I don't handle the primers with my fingers, so I don't think primer conatmination is the culprit (although I admit I'm not expert enough to know if that's true of not.) All I can figure is that somehow, the individual powder charges must have been contaminated, but I can't see how it happened.

I've been reloading since '75, have done at least 100K rds on both Rockchucker and Dillon presses.

Hal · November 11, 2001, 08:45 AM

What brand of primer did you use?
How long have you had that batch of primers?
How long did the dealer have them before you bought them?
Where do you store them? (hot/high humidity? or cool dry?)
Can you maybe guess how the dealer stored them? (I know, poor choice of wording,,sorry)
Are you positive about the answer to the last question(s)?
Are you sure you're using pistol primers?(sorry, I gotta ask)

Do you leave the powder in a plastic measure or return it to it's original container between sessions?
Is the powder stored in a cool dry place?
Are you sure?

Were these virgin cases or resized?

Do you tumble your cases?
Before or after you deprime them if you do tumble them?
Do you make sure the flashole is clear of any tumbling media?
Is there a burr of any sort in the flashole of the squibs?

Is there any crud inside the flasholes of the other rounds that did fire that may have been scraped into the flashole during priming?(<--my best guess of what the culprit was)

Sorry, to answer a question with so many questions but off the top of my head these are the things I'd ask myself.

Blarneystone · November 11, 2001, 10:09 AM

Richard,

All I can say is I am in the same place right now. Trying to figure out what is wrong. I personally have been looking at my crimp, and making sure my primer holes are clean in the brass.

sricciardelli · November 11, 2001, 11:02 AM

Probably a couple of contaminated primers...

PDshooter · November 11, 2001, 11:21 AM

Yep! I would say Primers!

Big Bunny · November 11, 2001, 03:57 PM

I don't use Unique -but is it yellow?

I would go for faulty primers or powder/primer contamination with lube or water/oil etc. Seating fault unlikely.
Feel flash-hole plugging unlikely, but pocket contamination with carbon etc possible. Crimp fault unlikely.

Check your primers with a magnifier. What was the brand ? Return them to dealer plus original packaging if any "light" loaded primers found.

Let us know the outcome please.

BB

dick w. holliday · November 11, 2001, 09:31 PM

guess what?? i've seen some yellow powder myself lately--i've been shooting 44 Spec in my cowboy pistols with a load of 5.0 gr ww231 under a 240 gr bullet and am getting quite a bit of unburned powder which is yellow....go figure-- 231 ain't yellow going in---i just loaded another thousand just like them again but this time i firmed up the crimp quite a bit...we'll see if that helps....Dick

Archie · November 12, 2001, 02:21 AM

indicates incomplete burning.

Possible corruption of the powder itself.

If the primer didn't work, the bullet would not have left the case at all.

Any chance of oil or cleaning solvent left in the casing? Storing powder in a plastic container (other than the original) can deactivate the powder also.

Too light a charge of black powder will not burn properly. That may be the case wiht smokeless, also. How light a charge was this?

Cal4D4 · November 12, 2001, 03:31 AM

Those who publish reloading wisdom - M.D. Smith as example - claim Unique to be a very position sensitive powder. Couple that with a weak ignition due to whatever may get you where you ended up. How was case volume to charge density? Do you polish with crushed walnut or anything that could plug a flash hole?

45King · November 12, 2001, 06:04 AM

What brand of primer did you use?
CCI LP for the .45 Colt, WW SP for the .38's.

How long have you had that batch of primers? Not long, both relatively new.

How long did the dealer have them before you bought them? Unknown, but they both came from two different high volume dealers, so I don't think they'd been sitting around for too long.

Where do you store them? (hot/high humidity? or cool dry?) Cool, dry, temp and humidty controlled reloading room.

Can you maybe guess how the dealer stored them? (I know, poor choice of wording,,sorry)
Same as above.

Are you positive about the answer to the last question(s)?
Yes.

Are you sure you're using pistol primers?(sorry, I gotta ask)
Yes.

Do you leave the powder in a plastic measure or return it to it's original container between sessions?
Return to original container.

Is the powder stored in a cool dry place?
Yes.

Are you sure?
Yes.

Were these virgin cases or resized?
All cases started as factory ammo. The .45's were thrice fired, the .38's were once fired.

Do you tumble your cases?
Before or after you deprime them if you do tumble them?
I tumble them before I deprime.

Do you make sure the flashole is clear of any tumbling media?
Yes.

Is there a burr of any sort in the flashole of the squibs?
Not that I could see.

Is there any crud inside the flasholes of the other rounds that did fire that may have been scraped into the flashole during priming?(<--my best guess of what the culprit was)
Hmmm, didn't check that. Possible culprit, indeed.

I don't remember the exact charge in .45 (that particular event took place sometime between '80 and '84,) but it was maxium (according to the then-current Sierra manual) for a 200 gr. bullet. Density should have been good, and I've shot this same load thousands of times without ever having problems except this once. I have since backed off a tad for my favorite .45 Colt loads.
The .38 loads, while not maximum, were towards the upper end of the recomended loads.

While it's certainly poassible that dirty primer pockets might be the culprit, that seems more likely in the .45's than the .38's. The .45 cases were on their third reloading. However, the .38 cases had only been fired once (factory oad) and they all pretty much looked clean as a whistle.

It's either that, or somehow, the powder in the individual charges in question became contaiminated somehow. Maybe I dripped sweat into them? Oil/solvent contam is also possible, but not very likely. All cases awaiting reloading are stored in closed boxes, not taken out until it's time to load 'em.

Hal · November 12, 2001, 07:15 AM

Richard,
Pretty much a mystery at this point. Like I said, my best "guess" would be that something got in the way and prevented the primer from setting off the powder completely.

Mal H did a backyard type experiment a year or so ago where he purposly contaminated some primers and tested them for ignition. Maybe his results will shed some light on what went south for ya.

November 11, 2001, 08:16 AM	#1
45King Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 1999 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 1,033	Possible cause of dud reloads? I have had three "dud" reloads happen to me, and I'd like to hear some opinions as to cause. Two of the reloads were from a batch of 200 rds. of .45 Colt using Unique powder. The first launched the bullet from the barrel, but it hit the gound about 50 ft in front of me (I was aiming at a target out at 50 yds.) The next round "popped," but I saw no bullet strike, so I checked the barrel. Sure enough, bullet was stuck, and when I pushed it out, lots of unburned, yellowed powder came with it. The rest of the reloads in that batch fired fine. I had the same thing happen with one .38 Spl out of a batch of 200 (VV N-350 powder.) The primer popped, the bullet stuck, and yellowed powder came out with bullet. I prep all my cases the same way, so any contamination which occurs to one case should occur to all. I don't handle the primers with my fingers, so I don't think primer conatmination is the culprit (although I admit I'm not expert enough to know if that's true of not.) All I can figure is that somehow, the individual powder charges must have been contaminated, but I can't see how it happened. I've been reloading since '75, have done at least 100K rds on both Rockchucker and Dillon presses. __________________ Shoot straight, stay safe, and have a blessed day. Regards, Richard Freedom is a consequence of the exercising of rights.

November 11, 2001, 03:57 PM	#6
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Primers yet again? I don't use Unique -but is it yellow? I would go for faulty primers or powder/primer contamination with lube or water/oil etc. Seating fault unlikely. Feel flash-hole plugging unlikely, but pocket contamination with carbon etc possible. Crimp fault unlikely. Check your primers with a magnifier. What was the brand ? Return them to dealer plus original packaging if any "light" loaded primers found. Let us know the outcome please. BB __________________ Bad boys, bad boys...watcha goin' to do - watcha goin' to do when they come for YOU ?!

November 11, 2001, 09:31 PM	#7
dick w. holliday Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2001 Location: NC Posts: 589	yellow powder????? guess what?? i've seen some yellow powder myself lately--i've been shooting 44 Spec in my cowboy pistols with a load of 5.0 gr ww231 under a 240 gr bullet and am getting quite a bit of unburned powder which is yellow....go figure-- 231 ain't yellow going in---i just loaded another thousand just like them again but this time i firmed up the crimp quite a bit...we'll see if that helps....Dick

November 12, 2001, 02:21 AM	#8
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Yeah... the yellow powder.... indicates incomplete burning. Possible corruption of the powder itself. If the primer didn't work, the bullet would not have left the case at all. Any chance of oil or cleaning solvent left in the casing? Storing powder in a plastic container (other than the original) can deactivate the powder also. Too light a charge of black powder will not burn properly. That may be the case wiht smokeless, also. How light a charge was this? __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

November 12, 2001, 06:04 AM	#10
45King Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 1999 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 1,033	What brand of primer did you use? CCI LP for the .45 Colt, WW SP for the .38's. How long have you had that batch of primers? Not long, both relatively new. How long did the dealer have them before you bought them? Unknown, but they both came from two different high volume dealers, so I don't think they'd been sitting around for too long. Where do you store them? (hot/high humidity? or cool dry?) Cool, dry, temp and humidty controlled reloading room. Can you maybe guess how the dealer stored them? (I know, poor choice of wording,,sorry) Same as above. Are you positive about the answer to the last question(s)? Yes. Are you sure you're using pistol primers?(sorry, I gotta ask) Yes. Do you leave the powder in a plastic measure or return it to it's original container between sessions? Return to original container. Is the powder stored in a cool dry place? Yes. Are you sure? Yes. Were these virgin cases or resized? All cases started as factory ammo. The .45's were thrice fired, the .38's were once fired. Do you tumble your cases? Before or after you deprime them if you do tumble them? I tumble them before I deprime. Do you make sure the flashole is clear of any tumbling media? Yes. Is there a burr of any sort in the flashole of the squibs? Not that I could see. Is there any crud inside the flasholes of the other rounds that did fire that may have been scraped into the flashole during priming?(<--my best guess of what the culprit was) Hmmm, didn't check that. Possible culprit, indeed. I don't remember the exact charge in .45 (that particular event took place sometime between '80 and '84,) but it was maxium (according to the then-current Sierra manual) for a 200 gr. bullet. Density should have been good, and I've shot this same load thousands of times without ever having problems except this once. I have since backed off a tad for my favorite .45 Colt loads. The .38 loads, while not maximum, were towards the upper end of the recomended loads. While it's certainly poassible that dirty primer pockets might be the culprit, that seems more likely in the .45's than the .38's. The .45 cases were on their third reloading. However, the .38 cases had only been fired once (factory oad) and they all pretty much looked clean as a whistle. It's either that, or somehow, the powder in the individual charges in question became contaiminated somehow. Maybe I dripped sweat into them? Oil/solvent contam is also possible, but not very likely. All cases awaiting reloading are stored in closed boxes, not taken out until it's time to load 'em. __________________ Shoot straight, stay safe, and have a blessed day. Regards, Richard Freedom is a consequence of the exercising of rights.

November 11, 2001, 08:45 AM	#2
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	What brand of primer did you use? How long have you had that batch of primers? How long did the dealer have them before you bought them? Where do you store them? (hot/high humidity? or cool dry?) Can you maybe guess how the dealer stored them? (I know, poor choice of wording,,sorry) Are you positive about the answer to the last question(s)? Are you sure you're using pistol primers?(sorry, I gotta ask) Do you leave the powder in a plastic measure or return it to it's original container between sessions? Is the powder stored in a cool dry place? Are you sure? Were these virgin cases or resized? Do you tumble your cases? Before or after you deprime them if you do tumble them? Do you make sure the flashole is clear of any tumbling media? Is there a burr of any sort in the flashole of the squibs? Is there any crud inside the flasholes of the other rounds that did fire that may have been scraped into the flashole during priming?(<--my best guess of what the culprit was) Sorry, to answer a question with so many questions but off the top of my head these are the things I'd ask myself.

November 11, 2001, 10:09 AM	#3
Blarneystone Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2001 Posts: 152	Richard, All I can say is I am in the same place right now. Trying to figure out what is wrong. I personally have been looking at my crimp, and making sure my primer holes are clean in the brass.

November 11, 2001, 11:02 AM	#4
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	Probably a couple of contaminated primers...

November 11, 2001, 11:21 AM	#5
PDshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 607	Yep! I would say Primers!

November 12, 2001, 03:31 AM	#9
Cal4D4 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2001 Location: southern california Posts: 679	Those who publish reloading wisdom - M.D. Smith as example - claim Unique to be a very position sensitive powder. Couple that with a weak ignition due to whatever may get you where you ended up. How was case volume to charge density? Do you polish with crushed walnut or anything that could plug a flash hole?

November 12, 2001, 07:15 AM	#11
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Richard, Pretty much a mystery at this point. Like I said, my best "guess" would be that something got in the way and prevented the primer from setting off the powder completely. Mal H did a backyard type experiment a year or so ago where he purposly contaminated some primers and tested them for ignition. Maybe his results will shed some light on what went south for ya.