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Old March 15, 2008, 09:40 AM   #1
4sarge
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Loading 30-06 168gr for the Garand

We're trying to work up some accurate loads for the Garand using 168 gr match bullets. For longer distance shooting.
Has anyone found a particular bullet to be more accurate than another?
Right now I have 168gr BTHP Hornady match bullets on hand. Any thoughts on the Hornady A-MAX 168gr?
Powders on hand: Varget, IMR4064, and Win. 760.
Thanks!
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Old March 15, 2008, 01:49 PM   #2
Ralph Allen
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I use 46.0 grains of IMR4895, Lake City brass, Sierra 168 bthp match and Winchester LR primers. Works great in my Garand.
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Old March 15, 2008, 01:56 PM   #3
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760 is to slow burning for a Garand (damage to op rod )

LC brass
46.5 gr. IMR 4895
168 Siearra MK
CCI # 34 primer
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Old March 15, 2008, 02:09 PM   #4
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I like the Sierra 168 gr BTHP but my rifle likes R15 better.


Quote:
I use 46.0 grains of IMR4895, Lake City brass, Sierra 168 bthp match and Winchester LR primers. Works great in my Garand.
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Old March 15, 2008, 03:53 PM   #5
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Old March 16, 2008, 08:16 AM   #6
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Rats. I've got an almost full 8# of Win 760 that I use for the Mauser 30-06.

Appreciate the tips so far.

Any personal experiences out there using Varget and 168 Grain Match bullets?
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Old March 16, 2008, 09:33 AM   #7
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My bolt actions like 168 gr. Sierra match bullets. They also like IMR 4350 but I imagine my loads would be too hot for a Garand.
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Old March 16, 2008, 09:49 AM   #8
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In the large case of the 30-06, I get more consistant ignition with 4064. Other powders affected my POI based on powder position in the case.
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Old March 17, 2008, 11:09 AM   #9
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You can use the WW 760 in the Garand. You just can't perk the loads right up there without damaging the op rod. I load the 168 Sierra MK over 52.5 of 760 in commercial cases and 51.5 in LC match cases. Use RP or CCI LR primers.
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Old March 17, 2008, 07:43 PM   #10
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Somewhere I read where Win 760 can be used to come very close to USGI "ball" ammo. I use the 760 in the bolt action. And have used it some in the Garand with a reduced load. I'm new to the Garand having bought one last fall.

I loaded up some greek brass with 46.5 & 47 gr Varget (per Hornady's conservative manual!) 168 Hornady BTHP Match. CCI #34 primer. I'll give those a try when I get a chance.

Also noted: the Sierra 168 MK looks like the preferred bullet.
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Old March 17, 2008, 08:33 PM   #11
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IMR 4895 was one of the original powders used for the military. So as long as you consult a burn rate chart and pick a similar powder and load to get around 2800 FPS for a 150 bullet or somewhat slower for a heavier one you shouldn't get into trouble.

burn rate chart?

Try here:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php
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Old March 17, 2008, 08:51 PM   #12
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IMR4064 works extremely well with 168 grain match bullets and regular primers. Worked up a load for my '03A4 that gives one hole groups if I do my part. Haven't worked up an M1 load though. IMR4064 gives more consistent accuracy than IMR4895.
Use 168 grain bullet for distances out to 600 yards. A 175 grain Matchking past there.
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Old March 17, 2008, 09:29 PM   #13
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"Reloading For The M1 Rifle" by John R. Clarke in the March 1986 American Rifleman has a wealth of information you need for M1 reloads. Paraphrased is some of the information:

Stick to powders with a burn rate between IMR 3031 (fastest) and IMR 4320 (slowest). What you're looking for is port pressure of 6000 +/- 2000 psi. Too slow a powder has too much port pressure, which will bend the operating rod and cause the rifle to cycle too fast. A powder faster than IMR 3031 will not develop useful velocities with safe chamber pressure.

Bullet weights should be 150 to 200 gr with an appropriate charge of the correct burn-rate powder. Do not try to magnum-ize the M1 Garand. It will be an expensive failure.

A recommended load, in the Clarke article, is the Sierra 168-gr BTHP MatchKing with 46.5 to 47.5 gr IMR 4895. Seat to an OAL of 3.34".

Trim sized cases to 2.494", which is the max length, for greater uniformity.

You should notice the fired cases landing in an area between 12:00 and 1:30 for 150--168 gr loads; 2:00--3:00 for 180-gr loads; and 3:00--4:00 for 190-200 gr loads. This is caused by the bolt speed.

My .02:

The Ralph Allen comment above has an excellent loading for the M1 Garand.

Try to simulate M2 Ball...you can load up a soft point hunting-style bullet, since they can be very accurate without the price of the Match bullet. You will only really need the Match bullets at longer ranges, in an accurized M1 Garand. Sierra is not the only choice for Match bullets, you can try Hornady, Berger, and others.

I have used IMR 4895 and AA 2520 with great success in the M1 Garand, using recommended service rifle loads. For my bolt-action hunting rifle, I use 56-gr IMR 4350 with Hornady (#3045) 165-gr BTSP. I segregate loads based on GI brass for service rifle, and Remington or Federal commercial brass for hunting rifle loads. I shoot service rifle loads in my hunting rifle--I would never fire my hunting load in an M1, not even once.
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Old March 18, 2008, 12:26 AM   #14
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+1 what C17A said. I used a very similar load (the Sierra bullet load slightly tweaked to fit my rifle) in a highly tuned M1 to achieve high master with. I think the hunting bullet idea is a good one for everything up to the 600 yard line, where I prefer 175 grains. The IMR 4895 works beautifully in that gun around the grains listed. Tweak up or down a bit and work with bullet seating depths to match your gun for an ideal load.

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Old March 18, 2008, 07:57 AM   #15
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I really appreciate the tips.
In a PM to rwilson, I told him I took a break from reloading since 2001 and resumed in Dec. '07. Some things have changed, new powders have arrived, bullets, etc.

I bought some Varget since it looked like a good stable powder choice that would work well in .223, 22-250, 30-06.

It looks like most recommendations are for 4895. I will experiment with the Varget and see what sort of results come with that before buying some 4895

Fortunately I read about the warnings regarding the op-rod before I shot some of my hotter 30-06 loads in the Garand!
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Old March 18, 2008, 10:13 AM   #16
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I shoot Varget in my Garand behind the 175 SMK moly-coated and it cut my groups by almost a third when I switched from 4895. Varget is definitely worth giving a try.
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Old March 19, 2008, 09:33 PM   #17
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One of the best loads I've found is 48.0 of WW 748 in LC military brass with RP 9 1/2 primers. That should almost duplicate the WRA and WCC cartridges. It puts the brass in a neat circle and all together except for the flyer when you hear the ping. You could probably substitute the CCI #34 with no ill effects. Uniform the flash holes and cut the primer pockets, and this load will surprise you. This is with the 150 grain bullets however.
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Old March 20, 2008, 08:08 AM   #18
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C17A.. I've just got 1000 Hornady 150gr SP from the LNL bullet offer. So I'll be working with those too.
Wiljen..Glad to hear you have had success with Varget.

Working on shooting some of the Greek CMP surplus.
Any ideas on the powder used in this load? Was it designed with the garand pressures in mind? I'm guessing it is but is there any data out there to confirm?
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Old March 24, 2008, 09:00 AM   #19
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There are a couple of things I've found when loading for my '06 M-1's.

I can never get the 168's to shoot as good as the 155 Palma bullet's. IMR 4064 seems to group better over all. I have not tried Varget but it is on the list of things to do. I did try Varget with some 168 SMK's in my 308 M-1 and it looked like it wanted to work. I also plan on wringing out some RE-15 in my 308 M-1 and see what kind of groups I can come up with.

I use CCI primers period. Federal's are too soft, Winchesters are too hot for stick powders. (causes vertical stringing)

The best money I've spent so far is uniforming the primer pockets.

The Greek ammo shoots pretty good. Greek was used at the National John C. Garand match last year at Camp Perry. Shoots good enough I was in the 170's out of over 1300 competitors and my sitting sucked because I let the rifle get away from me. Greek can be had in Garand clips from the CMP. It could be just a tad hotter than Lake City but this is based on what others had said. I have not investigated the claim.
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Old March 24, 2008, 09:31 AM   #20
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4895 is almost the always the powder of choice in those weapons. You'll probably want to find some GI brass if you can because the Garand is notorious for being hard on brass.
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Old March 24, 2008, 02:53 PM   #21
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I agree 4895 is a good M-1 powder. IMR 4064 groups better. I would say most who are looking for smaller groups would agree. Varget is showing good promise. GI is the best brass to use and uniforming the primer pockets make standard GI brass even better.
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Old November 19, 2009, 10:01 AM   #22
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While I'll be using 147gr FMJ bullets from Widener's, Win748 and AA2520 with Win LR primers, am wondering about reloading the HXP (Greek) brass. Has anyone done any reloading with the HXP? What do you think? Thanks.
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Old November 19, 2009, 11:09 AM   #23
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The HXP has not garnered a good reputation for reloading. I haven't reloaded any myself, but check the reloading threads on the CMP's forum.


4sarge,

You said you were reloading for long range? The 168 grain Sierras are only good to 600 yards. They become unstable in the transonic velocity range, and from a Garand they will typically start to tumble at around 700 yards. The newer 175 grain SMK design does not become unstable in that range. Also, the last time I pulled some M72 match rounds, the bullets averaged about 174 grains. The last lot of 175 grain MatchKings I bought also averaged 174 grains, so I consider them a superior substitute for M72 look-alike ammo. The recipe is, Lake City brass, CCI #34 primer (this is mil strength, matching the Lake City primer performance, which is magnum primer strength), 46.5 grains of IMR4895 (the last published M72 load) and the Sierra 175 grain MatchKing, seated so the slight variability in the lengths of the hollow points averages about 3.330" COL.

IMR4064 and Varget both fill the case about 3% better than IMR4895. The latter powder has a reputation for being forgiving of case fill, but M72 will still vary 80 fps depending whether the muzzle was tipped down or up just before firing. The accuracy doesn't seem to suffer from that variability over the NMC, but I prefer better case fill. Equivalent loads of IMR4064 and Varget that produce the same barrel time can be figured in QuickLOAD, which handles these powders pretty well. They are 47.0 grains of IMR4064, and 47.7 grains of Varget. Port pressures are calculated to be:

175 gr. SMK, CCI #34 primer, LC Brass, 3.330" average COL:

46.5 gr. IMR4895 = 8,928 psi
47.0 gr. IMR4064 = 8,773 psi
47.7 gr. Varget = 8,871 psi

So, they are the same, for practical purposes.

If you were to try for the same barrel time from 760 (same powder as Hodgdon H414; just differently branded) you would need 52.6 grains. The port pressure would jump about 1000 psi to 9,745 psi. I don't recommend you try that without installing one of the gas cylinder plugs with a vent to drop the pressure level. I also found that the spherical powders require you to uniform primer pockets and, especially, to deburr the flash holes in your cases to get best ignition consistency. The stick powders don't seem to care nearly as much.
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Last edited by Unclenick; November 19, 2009 at 11:18 AM.
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