Ejector issues after shooting 38sp...

Mikechandler · January 21, 2012, 11:54 PM

There has to be some fix to this I don't know. I have a really nice S&W 686-4 plus 6" revolver.

Shooting 38 specials (FMJ) after 5 or 6 reloads, I am pretty much done shooting until I clean it. The chambers get so fouled up that I can hardly eject the brass. The problem does happen A LOT less with 357s, but after 100 of those I am pretty worn out anyway. I like to do target shooting for that reason with the 38 specials. I know the WWB 38sp isn't high quality ammo... but it's cheap enough at walmart that I can afford to shoot this (my favorite and most prized gun).

I've looked at the clearance between the cone of the barrel and the cylinder and it looks fine.

Any advice is appreciated!

dnsharpshooter · January 21, 2012, 11:58 PM

im still fairly new to revolvers, but from what ive read on here shooting 38s in a 357 revolver does cause more build up than if you shot 357s, because of the shorter case on the 38. not too much you can do to avoid it as far as I know.

warningshot · January 22, 2012, 12:35 AM

On this Sunday let us all join in and sing, Clean your Chambers. Please stand...

monkey95 · January 22, 2012, 12:36 AM

Not an expert by any means I just bought my first revolver yesterday, sp101(used). When I shot it today I was having trouble with extractions in both .38 and .357 to the point I needed a screwdriver twice to remove the empties(in one chamber).

I had done a quick clean prior to shooting today so I hope that is the issue.

When I returned home and cleaned the heck out of it rounds now fall out with no problem. Hope to shoot again next weekend to see if that was the issue

Shadi Khalil · January 22, 2012, 12:50 AM

It's true, shooting .38's out of your .357 will get you extra fouling. Make sure you are really doing a good job cleaning after each outing, otherwise you will have build up upon build up. I find cleaning revolvers to be a bit of a chore because to really get a everything out you have to spend some time. What are you using to clean?

monkey95 · January 22, 2012, 01:01 AM

Shadi,

I think you are addressing the op, but I probably could use help here as well, I used Hoppes and clp with a standard bore brush(.38, .357, .9mm) followed with a run through of patches.

OP, sorry, not trying to pilfer your thread.

Mikechandler · January 22, 2012, 01:05 AM

i would think I can fire more than 35 rounds between thorough chamber cleanings. I am using CLP and a bore snake, cleaning each chamber in my cylinder, while others are still shooting next to me. That gets old pretty fast. When I get home I do a thorough cleaning. My 686 looks new when done.

I was hoping there was some obvious thing I could do, other than just shooting 357 all day (if for no other reason, the cost being too high).

I guess I need to start reloading 38 special loads in 357 brass or something. It's just a PITA.

trex1310 · January 22, 2012, 10:59 AM

Honing the cylinders will help extraction. However, honing brushes
and honing oil are somewhat pricey. When done properly the
cylinder holes will be mirror bright with all tool marks gone. I
think I purchased my honing brushes and oil from MidwaUSA.

bossman · January 22, 2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

i would think I can fire more than 35 rounds between thorough chamber cleanings

I agree with that . It usally takes boxes of 38 spl then the 357's won't fit in the cylinder because of the shorter 38 spl build up.

Clean your gun barrel and cylinders as well as you can and if it keeps doing that contact S&W. Talk to them and see what they have to say. Other than trying different ammo, which I don't think is the problem, something ain't right.

bossman · January 22, 2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

im still fairly new to revolvers, but from what ive read on here shooting 38s in a 357 revolver does cause more build up than if you shot 357s, because of the shorter case on the 38. not too much you can do to avoid it as far as I know.

Shoot 38's in 38's and shoot 357's in 357's.

James K · January 22, 2012, 12:50 PM

Gee, Bossman, if I had a dollar for every .38 Special I have fired in a .357, I could be richer than The Donald. And I didn't even take special care to clean the chambers, just the normal bronze brush. Most of those rounds were handloads, using Bullseye, which is not a clean burning powder. I wonder if the ammo in question is not especially dirty; some of the cheaper ammo, even from big name companies, can have problems.

Jim

roaddog28 · January 22, 2012, 01:04 PM

Advice,
Shoot 357 magnums since it is a 357 magnum revolver. I have a 686-2 4 inch and shoot at the range CCI Blazer 357 magnum 158gr hollow points. They are inexpensive to shoot and don't leave the build up as do 38 specials. This round is a mid power round and has mild recoil.
Good luck,
Howard

bossman · January 22, 2012, 01:13 PM

James K , that was just in jest to the I don't know how to avoid it. I too use Bullseye with my 38's and may have to wipe down the exterior of the gun everynow and then but can shoot forever without extractor problems.

He said he was using WWB which isn't the cleanest 38 but only 5 or 6 cylinders and he's got to stop. That gun should handle a few boxes easy not stop on 30 to 36 rounds.

I still say a good cleaning not just a wipe down but a few hours worth and if it still has that problem contact S&W and let them fix it on their dime.

Make sure to clean and oil under the extractor and extractor rod as they sometimes get gummed up.

kraigwy · January 22, 2012, 01:28 PM

Sbooting 38s causing problems when you go to 357 is a lot more common then people think.

And its a lot simplar to fix then people think.

Take an empty 357 case and run it through your expander die. Set the expander die where it opens the mouth of the case where it bearly fits in the cylender. You should have to force it in.

Then semply force it end, exject it and you'll find the sharp mouth of the 357 case cut out the residue left by the 38 case.

Simple fast, cheap, and IT WORKS.

fjlee · January 24, 2012, 01:41 PM

One of the common .357 Mag revolver chamber cleaning errors that I see:

Using a .357 bore brush to clean .357 chambers. What's needed is .357 _CHAMBER_ brush.

Yes, they do exist, and they'll get your .357 chambers a lot cleaner than the smaller .357 BORE brushes will.

A .357 chamber brush is larger in diameter than a .357 bore brush.

FjLee Denver CO

PawPaw · January 24, 2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjlee

Using a .357 bore brush to clean .357 chambers. What's needed is .357 _CHAMBER_ brush.

A trick I learned a long time ago was to use a .45 ACP bore brush to clean .357 revolver chambers. Works like a champ. When we had large quantities of .357 cylinders to clean, we'd chuck a short section of rod in a handheld drill and put a .45 bore brush on the end. You can clean a dozen cylinders in no time.

spacecoast · January 26, 2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Take an empty 357 case and run it through your expander die. Set the expander die where it opens the mouth of the case where it bearly fits in the cylender. You should have to force it in.

Yep, and you'll likely get some significant lead shavings coming out the front of each cylinder. I sometimes have to do this with my K-38 during a Bullseye match when a cylinder gets a little crud in it. Just don't force them in so tight that you can't get them back out with the extractor. Better yet, use a small wooden dowel and save the wear and tear on the extractor.

Kreyzhorse · January 26, 2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

I still say a good cleaning not just a wipe down but a few hours worth and if it still has that problem contact S&W and let them fix it on their dime.

A very good cleaning will usually take care of the problems. Make sure you really give the chambers a good cleaning after the next range session and I'd also try some different ammo. Just to see if it makes any difference.

RichB69 · January 27, 2012, 07:53 AM

I made the mistake of buying and using this ammo in my GP-100 and it is difficult to eject. I tried it it my SP-100 357 mag and its to tight in the cyl. so I'm done with it. Maybe ammo is a problem??

Rich

18DAI · January 27, 2012, 08:59 AM

Buy a chamber brush. A few passes with the chamber brush when cleaning after shooting will eliminate this problem. Regards 18DAI

ScotchMan · January 27, 2012, 09:35 AM

Are you forcefully "smacking" the ejector with the palm of your hand? I've seen new revolver shooters (not implying you are new, just sayin), think that the extractor rod is a button and the cases will just fall out. Point the muzzle up, and smack the ejector with the palm of your hand. If the cases still don't fall out then you have an issue.

5thShock · January 28, 2012, 08:02 AM

Mikechandler: If firing 30 to 36 rounds causes an extraction failure there is something wrong. Your gun is made by Smith & Wesson to fire 357 and 38 Special. Forget the cylinder hones. Call or email Smith & Wesson and tell them what is happening, the gun is not functioning as designed.

Sport45 · January 28, 2012, 08:35 AM

If it's bad you can chuck a worn .45 bronze brush in a drill and really get after the chambers. I've resorted to this on a few revolvers I've bought used.

I've also had to do that when I shot a round that had shaved lead from the bullet on the outside. The lead ironed itself onto the chamber wall and wouldn't come off with regular brushing.

drail · January 28, 2012, 11:57 AM

Some of that fouling takes a lot more work to get out than most people think. While working for a gunshop some of the trades that we took in would require soaking the chambers in a carbon cutting solvent over night and then using a chamber brush turned at slow speed in a drill to get it out. Some of them took repeated applications. Some gun makers also leave very rough finishes in their chambers (Ruger comes to mind) and polishing them will make a huge difference in buildup and effort required to remove it. I have a set of cylinder hones and they have made my revolvers much easier to extract. Magnum cases will fall out under their own weight after polishing. But those hones are not cheap. Another trick I learned was to clean (or at least soak) dirty chambers as soon as possible after shooting them. Just letting a dirty chamber set overnight will allow the carbon to become very hard and really stuck on the chamber walls. I always mopped some solvent into the chambers of my guns with a Q tip at the range immediately after shooting while they were still warm and by the time I got them home they were MUCH easier to clean. The longer you leave them dirty the harder they are to get clean again.

riomedinamike · January 29, 2012, 03:06 PM

Everyone so far has given you excellent advice, and from my experience, they all work. You probably have a rough chamber, or you haven't cleaned it "enough", or both. I've had a Colt that would not eject and would literally punch a hole in my hand with the ejector rod after only 12 rounds. I also have lots of S&W's that can shoot 500+ rds in one day and will eject everytime (When I was younger, I could shoot more, but "arthuritis" as my grandma used to say is the limiting factor now).

The cheapest alternative and first choice I would undertake is to buy a "chamber" brush for a 357, or a .40/10mm or .45 bore brush, and put them in a battery-powered hand drill and go slow with Hoppes or my choice which is "Ed's Red" (recipes everywhere). Hoppes does smell better.

Brownells and Midway sell the chamber polishing supplies, but unless you have experience I would shy away from that option.

If you have a nice local gunsmith, he should have a chamber polishing setup, watch him do it (when I was a kid my neighbor was a gunsmith and I spent lots of time with him in his hobby garage), and pay him the fee which shouldn't be too bad. You can later buy your own equipment.

I would go with this option if it is cheaper than shipping it to S&W - but I would insist S&W pay the postage both ways.

Good Luck.

January 21, 2012, 11:54 PM	#1
Mikechandler Junior Member Join Date: July 25, 2011 Posts: 13	Ejector issues after shooting 38sp... There has to be some fix to this I don't know. I have a really nice S&W 686-4 plus 6" revolver. Shooting 38 specials (FMJ) after 5 or 6 reloads, I am pretty much done shooting until I clean it. The chambers get so fouled up that I can hardly eject the brass. The problem does happen A LOT less with 357s, but after 100 of those I am pretty worn out anyway. I like to do target shooting for that reason with the 38 specials. I know the WWB 38sp isn't high quality ammo... but it's cheap enough at walmart that I can afford to shoot this (my favorite and most prized gun). I've looked at the clearance between the cone of the barrel and the cylinder and it looks fine. Any advice is appreciated!

January 22, 2012, 12:35 AM	#3
warningshot Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Posts: 995	See Mr. Lewis Lead Remover On this Sunday let us all join in and sing, Clean your Chambers. Please stand...

January 22, 2012, 10:59 AM	#8
trex1310 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 389	Honing Honing the cylinders will help extraction. However, honing brushes and honing oil are somewhat pricey. When done properly the cylinder holes will be mirror bright with all tool marks gone. I think I purchased my honing brushes and oil from MidwaUSA. __________________ NRA Life Member Certified in laziness Certified in watching TV Certified in BBQ on the Green Egg

January 22, 2012, 01:13 PM	#13
bossman Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 996	James K , that was just in jest to the I don't know how to avoid it. I too use Bullseye with my 38's and may have to wipe down the exterior of the gun everynow and then but can shoot forever without extractor problems. He said he was using WWB which isn't the cleanest 38 but only 5 or 6 cylinders and he's got to stop. That gun should handle a few boxes easy not stop on 30 to 36 rounds. I still say a good cleaning not just a wipe down but a few hours worth and if it still has that problem contact S&W and let them fix it on their dime. Make sure to clean and oil under the extractor and extractor rod as they sometimes get gummed up. __________________ NRA life member When the going gets tough, I just open another beer.

January 22, 2012, 01:28 PM	#14
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Sbooting 38s causing problems when you go to 357 is a lot more common then people think. And its a lot simplar to fix then people think. Take an empty 357 case and run it through your expander die. Set the expander die where it opens the mouth of the case where it bearly fits in the cylender. You should have to force it in. Then semply force it end, exject it and you'll find the sharp mouth of the 357 case cut out the residue left by the 38 case. Simple fast, cheap, and IT WORKS. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

January 21, 2012, 11:58 PM	#2
dnsharpshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2011 Location: Ahwatukee, AZ Posts: 212	im still fairly new to revolvers, but from what ive read on here shooting 38s in a 357 revolver does cause more build up than if you shot 357s, because of the shorter case on the 38. not too much you can do to avoid it as far as I know.

January 22, 2012, 12:36 AM	#4
monkey95 Member Join Date: February 5, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 75	Not an expert by any means I just bought my first revolver yesterday, sp101(used). When I shot it today I was having trouble with extractions in both .38 and .357 to the point I needed a screwdriver twice to remove the empties(in one chamber). I had done a quick clean prior to shooting today so I hope that is the issue. When I returned home and cleaned the heck out of it rounds now fall out with no problem. Hope to shoot again next weekend to see if that was the issue

January 22, 2012, 12:50 AM	#5
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	It's true, shooting .38's out of your .357 will get you extra fouling. Make sure you are really doing a good job cleaning after each outing, otherwise you will have build up upon build up. I find cleaning revolvers to be a bit of a chore because to really get a everything out you have to spend some time. What are you using to clean?

January 22, 2012, 01:01 AM	#6
monkey95 Member Join Date: February 5, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 75	Shadi, I think you are addressing the op, but I probably could use help here as well, I used Hoppes and clp with a standard bore brush(.38, .357, .9mm) followed with a run through of patches. OP, sorry, not trying to pilfer your thread.

January 22, 2012, 01:05 AM	#7
Mikechandler Junior Member Join Date: July 25, 2011 Posts: 13	i would think I can fire more than 35 rounds between thorough chamber cleanings. I am using CLP and a bore snake, cleaning each chamber in my cylinder, while others are still shooting next to me. That gets old pretty fast. When I get home I do a thorough cleaning. My 686 looks new when done. I was hoping there was some obvious thing I could do, other than just shooting 357 all day (if for no other reason, the cost being too high). I guess I need to start reloading 38 special loads in 357 brass or something. It's just a PITA.

January 22, 2012, 12:50 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Gee, Bossman, if I had a dollar for every .38 Special I have fired in a .357, I could be richer than The Donald. And I didn't even take special care to clean the chambers, just the normal bronze brush. Most of those rounds were handloads, using Bullseye, which is not a clean burning powder. I wonder if the ammo in question is not especially dirty; some of the cheaper ammo, even from big name companies, can have problems. Jim

January 22, 2012, 01:04 PM	#12
roaddog28 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Location: Escondido, CA Posts: 961	Advice, Shoot 357 magnums since it is a 357 magnum revolver. I have a 686-2 4 inch and shoot at the range CCI Blazer 357 magnum 158gr hollow points. They are inexpensive to shoot and don't leave the build up as do 38 specials. This round is a mid power round and has mild recoil. Good luck, Howard

January 24, 2012, 01:41 PM	#15
fjlee Junior Member Join Date: November 10, 2007 Posts: 12	One of the common .357 Mag revolver chamber cleaning errors that I see: Using a .357 bore brush to clean .357 chambers. What's needed is .357 _CHAMBER_ brush. Yes, they do exist, and they'll get your .357 chambers a lot cleaner than the smaller .357 BORE brushes will. A .357 chamber brush is larger in diameter than a .357 bore brush. FjLee Denver CO

January 27, 2012, 07:53 AM	#19
RichB69 Member Join Date: April 15, 2010 Posts: 50	Mag tech .38 super auto +p I made the mistake of buying and using this ammo in my GP-100 and it is difficult to eject. I tried it it my SP-100 357 mag and its to tight in the cyl. so I'm done with it. Maybe ammo is a problem?? Rich

January 27, 2012, 08:59 AM	#20
18DAI Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 2,156	Buy a chamber brush. A few passes with the chamber brush when cleaning after shooting will eliminate this problem. Regards 18DAI __________________ S&W Model 19 Combat Magnum. Everything you need in a revolver, and nothing you don't.

January 27, 2012, 09:35 AM	#21
ScotchMan Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Posts: 1,368	Are you forcefully "smacking" the ejector with the palm of your hand? I've seen new revolver shooters (not implying you are new, just sayin), think that the extractor rod is a button and the cases will just fall out. Point the muzzle up, and smack the ejector with the palm of your hand. If the cases still don't fall out then you have an issue. __________________ Everyday Loadout NRA Instructor NRA Member

January 28, 2012, 08:02 AM	#22
5thShock Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2006 Posts: 400	Mikechandler: If firing 30 to 36 rounds causes an extraction failure there is something wrong. Your gun is made by Smith & Wesson to fire 357 and 38 Special. Forget the cylinder hones. Call or email Smith & Wesson and tell them what is happening, the gun is not functioning as designed.

January 28, 2012, 08:35 AM	#23
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	If it's bad you can chuck a worn .45 bronze brush in a drill and really get after the chambers. I've resorted to this on a few revolvers I've bought used. I've also had to do that when I shot a round that had shaved lead from the bullet on the outside. The lead ironed itself onto the chamber wall and wouldn't come off with regular brushing. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

January 28, 2012, 11:57 AM	#24
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	Some of that fouling takes a lot more work to get out than most people think. While working for a gunshop some of the trades that we took in would require soaking the chambers in a carbon cutting solvent over night and then using a chamber brush turned at slow speed in a drill to get it out. Some of them took repeated applications. Some gun makers also leave very rough finishes in their chambers (Ruger comes to mind) and polishing them will make a huge difference in buildup and effort required to remove it. I have a set of cylinder hones and they have made my revolvers much easier to extract. Magnum cases will fall out under their own weight after polishing. But those hones are not cheap. Another trick I learned was to clean (or at least soak) dirty chambers as soon as possible after shooting them. Just letting a dirty chamber set overnight will allow the carbon to become very hard and really stuck on the chamber walls. I always mopped some solvent into the chambers of my guns with a Q tip at the range immediately after shooting while they were still warm and by the time I got them home they were MUCH easier to clean. The longer you leave them dirty the harder they are to get clean again. Last edited by drail; January 28, 2012 at 12:02 PM.

January 29, 2012, 03:06 PM	#25
riomedinamike Member Join Date: February 17, 2007 Posts: 57	Everyone so far has given you excellent advice, and from my experience, they all work. You probably have a rough chamber, or you haven't cleaned it "enough", or both. I've had a Colt that would not eject and would literally punch a hole in my hand with the ejector rod after only 12 rounds. I also have lots of S&W's that can shoot 500+ rds in one day and will eject everytime (When I was younger, I could shoot more, but "arthuritis" as my grandma used to say is the limiting factor now). The cheapest alternative and first choice I would undertake is to buy a "chamber" brush for a 357, or a .40/10mm or .45 bore brush, and put them in a battery-powered hand drill and go slow with Hoppes or my choice which is "Ed's Red" (recipes everywhere). Hoppes does smell better. Brownells and Midway sell the chamber polishing supplies, but unless you have experience I would shy away from that option. If you have a nice local gunsmith, he should have a chamber polishing setup, watch him do it (when I was a kid my neighbor was a gunsmith and I spent lots of time with him in his hobby garage), and pay him the fee which shouldn't be too bad. You can later buy your own equipment. I would go with this option if it is cheaper than shipping it to S&W - but I would insist S&W pay the postage both ways. Good Luck.