Duplication of serial numbers on firearms. - Page 2

mag1911 · August 2, 2015, 04:42 AM

"Of course many firearms registration systems did not record the suffix letter on Lugers (hard to read anyway, in many cases) so there was the possibility of repeats every 9999 units "

A friend had this happen. He sold a Luger at a show and some time later got a visit from the police. Seems the buyer showed the Luger to a friend who claimed that was his Luger stolen years before and still had the police report with the serial but just the numbers.

My friend explained the repeating serial number situation to the police and since the report didn't list the maker or complete serial the matter was dropped.

I've also read that way back (maybe 20s, 30s?) when Colt duplicated serial numbers they'd sell those firearms overseas.

**44 AMP** · August 2, 2015, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Interesting, correct me I'm wrong, but isn't there some federal reg somewhere that indicates semi-autos have to have serial numbers stamped or otherwise permanently attached to different parts of the gun?

I recall a proposed law that included pistols having a "hidden" serial number, somewhere not commonly visible, but I don't believe that passed.

I do recall hearing of a fellow who had some trouble with the police over "duplicate" serial numbers. He had a S&W .38SPL, and the police had a record of a S&W .38 cal, ser#xxxxxx as stolen. The numbers were the same. It was the police records that were incomplete, listing only the maker, caliber and #. When deeper investigation revealed that they were two different models of gun it was resolved, but it took an investigation, because of the sloppy manner the police used to record the information.

rtpzwms · August 2, 2015, 09:12 PM

Quote:

So when you see a listing on a match set of firearms and it reads; Matching Serial numbers, what they really mean, is Consecutive serial numbers.

I'm not sure how he did it but.... I ran into a gentleman at one of the local gun shows. He was selling 4 Matching Serial Numbered guns. All from the same manufacturer and I was interested in the pistols. He explained that they were all ordered on the same day as a special order. And that he had expressly asked for the serial number be the same. If I remember correctly it was initials and birthday. I saw this just back in January of this year.

**44 AMP** · August 3, 2015, 11:06 AM

The same make & model gun cannot have matching serial numbers. When someone says "matching" in this context they mean consecutive.

HOWEVER, different model guns CAN have the same (matching) serial numbers. I once saw a cased set of a baby Browning, a .380, and a Hi Power, all with the same serial #.

(don't know if it came from Browning that way, or if a very serious collector created it), but I did see it.

ronl · August 4, 2015, 09:08 PM

I do know that during WW2 there were serial number overlaps in both Garand and 1911A1 production. Both the Garand and the Colt 1911A1 I own are in that category. Winchester and SA produced Garands with identical serial numbers, as did Colt and Remington Rand. Would be something to own two different Garands or 1911A1's with the same serial number, different makers.

rtpzwms · August 4, 2015, 11:30 PM

44 amp:

Quote:

When someone says "matching" in this context they mean consecutive.

in what I personally saw they were NOT consecutive they WERE MATCHING. I found it very odd myself if I had not seen it myself, I too would have been skeptical.

**JohnKSa** · August 5, 2015, 12:20 AM

If that is the case then they would have had to be different models, or perhaps the serial numbers on each gun had a different prefix or suffix added to differentiate them. Since 1968 it has not been legal for a manufacturer to put the same serial number on two different guns of the same model.

SaxonPig · August 6, 2015, 10:10 AM

I think it's already noted...but...

The GCA of 1968 mandates unique serial numbers on all guns. No dupes allowed under federal law. This is why S&W changed from the S prefix on N frame models to an N in 1968. They had used the S prefix on K frames in the late 1940s so it would be possible to have two S&Ws made 20 years apart with the same serial if they didn't change.

Before this law serial numbers were not required and many inexpensive guns didn't have them. I have owned several 22 rifles made long ago with no serials. In the "bound book" these are listed as "N/A" where the serial goes.

If a gun was stamped with a number, it is illegal to remove or deface it even if the gun was made before the law required a serial. Some people think a gun with a removed serial is OK if made before 1968...not so.

KEYBEAR · August 8, 2015, 02:42 PM

At one time I bought and sold High end Trap Guns . I had two of the same make one was number 4 and one was number FOUR . This was about 10 years ago .

longknife12 · August 8, 2015, 04:17 PM

About 40 years ago...or so......I was contacted by a fed agency reference a Colt Det Special I had purchased less tax. That number and about 2 tons of weed had been picked up off coast. After a lengthy conversation, agent admitted they had 3 pistols with same SN. 2 went to Govt and 1 to me... I had sold mine to a narc.. Guess
I was convincing.......never heard any more!!!
Dan

SaxonPig · August 9, 2015, 07:18 AM

They had 3 pistols with same SN? The odds say that didn't happen. Something else was going on.

**JohnKSa** · August 9, 2015, 07:30 PM

I think the name appeared only on the barrel and there were a number of other models that differed in only minor details That means it would be possible to "change the model" by installing a different barrel. As you say, it wouldn't be terribly likely for there to be a triplication, but it could happen.

August 3, 2015, 11:06 AM	#29
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,813	The same make & model gun cannot have matching serial numbers. When someone says "matching" in this context they mean consecutive. HOWEVER, different model guns CAN have the same (matching) serial numbers. I once saw a cased set of a baby Browning, a .380, and a Hi Power, all with the same serial #. (don't know if it came from Browning that way, or if a very serious collector created it), but I did see it. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 5, 2015, 12:20 AM	#32
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	If that is the case then they would have had to be different models, or perhaps the serial numbers on each gun had a different prefix or suffix added to differentiate them. Since 1968 it has not been legal for a manufacturer to put the same serial number on two different guns of the same model. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

August 9, 2015, 07:30 PM	#37
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	I think the name appeared only on the barrel and there were a number of other models that differed in only minor details That means it would be possible to "change the model" by installing a different barrel. As you say, it wouldn't be terribly likely for there to be a triplication, but it could happen. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

August 2, 2015, 04:42 AM	#26
mag1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2011 Posts: 140	"Of course many firearms registration systems did not record the suffix letter on Lugers (hard to read anyway, in many cases) so there was the possibility of repeats every 9999 units " A friend had this happen. He sold a Luger at a show and some time later got a visit from the police. Seems the buyer showed the Luger to a friend who claimed that was his Luger stolen years before and still had the police report with the serial but just the numbers. My friend explained the repeating serial number situation to the police and since the report didn't list the maker or complete serial the matter was dropped. I've also read that way back (maybe 20s, 30s?) when Colt duplicated serial numbers they'd sell those firearms overseas.

August 4, 2015, 09:08 PM	#30
ronl Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Posts: 1,100	I do know that during WW2 there were serial number overlaps in both Garand and 1911A1 production. Both the Garand and the Colt 1911A1 I own are in that category. Winchester and SA produced Garands with identical serial numbers, as did Colt and Remington Rand. Would be something to own two different Garands or 1911A1's with the same serial number, different makers.

August 6, 2015, 10:10 AM	#33
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	I think it's already noted...but... The GCA of 1968 mandates unique serial numbers on all guns. No dupes allowed under federal law. This is why S&W changed from the S prefix on N frame models to an N in 1968. They had used the S prefix on K frames in the late 1940s so it would be possible to have two S&Ws made 20 years apart with the same serial if they didn't change. Before this law serial numbers were not required and many inexpensive guns didn't have them. I have owned several 22 rifles made long ago with no serials. In the "bound book" these are listed as "N/A" where the serial goes. If a gun was stamped with a number, it is illegal to remove or deface it even if the gun was made before the law required a serial. Some people think a gun with a removed serial is OK if made before 1968...not so.

August 8, 2015, 02:42 PM	#34
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	At one time I bought and sold High end Trap Guns . I had two of the same make one was number 4 and one was number FOUR . This was about 10 years ago .

August 8, 2015, 04:17 PM	#35
longknife12 Member Join Date: March 13, 2014 Location: Colorado Posts: 95	About 40 years ago...or so......I was contacted by a fed agency reference a Colt Det Special I had purchased less tax. That number and about 2 tons of weed had been picked up off coast. After a lengthy conversation, agent admitted they had 3 pistols with same SN. 2 went to Govt and 1 to me... I had sold mine to a narc.. Guess I was convincing.......never heard any more!!! Dan

August 9, 2015, 07:18 AM	#36
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	They had 3 pistols with same SN? The odds say that didn't happen. Something else was going on.