The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 6, 2010, 10:26 PM   #51
wyobohunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2008
Location: Back in Wyoming
Posts: 1,125
As others have said...

The 6D Mag makes a great club; I know this from personal experience.

Right after I got out of the Marines I had the second worse job of my life. I was a flashlight cop at a crack motel complex in the San Diego area. Job really sucked and payed next to nothing. anyhow...
I heard desparate screams coming from one of the rooms. I banged on the door but the screams didn't stop. Door was locked so I ended up breaking it open. John or pimp had hooker balled up in a corner and was kicking the crap out of her. He didn't even hear me break the door open. When I yelled "stop!" he turned and charged me. My 1st instinct was to swing that big heavy flashlight. It broke his collar bone but it was still all I could do keep him under control. Somebody called the cops and it didn't take long for them to show. Thank heavens for big heavy flashlights and the San Diego PD.
I quit and moved back to Wyoming shortly thereafter... Only to take the worst job I've ever had
__________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
wyobohunter is offline  
Old June 6, 2010, 10:49 PM   #52
Steviewonder1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2009
Location: John's Creek, Georgia
Posts: 328
Mag-Lites??

I bought my first one in Memphis Tn after the funeral of one of my favorite uncle's in the late 70's from a Cop-Shop on the South side of Memphis. I carried and used it in my car for the next 20+ years. That was 4 Dcells, plus 2 more up front in the split housing for a really bright light and bulb that never burned out. I still have it along with the spare bulb in the rear cap for it. It has almost the light that my TLR-1 puts out and is mounted on of my EDC gun (a G19) every day. My how times and techologies have changed.
Steviewonder1 is offline  
Old June 7, 2010, 02:51 AM   #53
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH1963
Thanks Bill. That was the best description so far. For illumination, it seems likke the CR123A flashlights can't be beat...but I dont have one of those batteries hanging around here and thats the main disadvantage versus getting the AA. I have plenty of double A batteries and can probably get a few of those out of some odd device around here if needed during a real emergency.
The CR123A batteries are commonly available in camera/battery departments of places like Walgreens, Longs/CVS, Wally world and others. Still, they're much more reasonably priced from Surefire. You can even buy no-name brands on-line from battery suppliers for as little as 91 cents per battery.

I'm in agreement with Glenn about the thought processes during a shooting.
The goal is to stop someone from killing you or causing great bodily injury. If you use lethal force in that situation, as soon as the person stops attacking or threatening (you or others) then you've accomplished the mission. Whether the person lives or dies as a result of your efforts to repel his violence is a secondary concern.

Also, I'd remind y'all that while the aluminum flashlight makes a dandy club, if seen, your opponent may prepare himself to ward off a club-like strike. Thus, the unexpected can be used to advantage by thrusting the end of it like a sword. Being hit in the mouth or nose with the blunt butt-end of a flashlight will let him see lights of a different sort. A good shot to the solar plexus (diaphram) can keep him busy trying to just breathe. Or you can crouch over while using a short circle to drive the light sideways into his knee or shin with enough force to break the bone.
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old June 7, 2010, 07:21 AM   #54
booker_t
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2009
Posts: 797
This is a bit off-topic, and I 100% agree with Glenn's post above.. but I'm curious how do you connect "using lethal force" with the "intent to stop?"

Defending your home against an intruder with a Louisville Slugger, a .38 snubby, or an M1.. is the .30 Cal more lethal, and could that be used to show intent to kill, rather than just stop?

Is the mere selection of defense weapon enough to demonstrate intent?
booker_t is offline  
Old June 7, 2010, 09:57 AM   #55
Glenn E. Meyer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
It's a thread hijack. But I think, and worth what you paid for it, that you use an instrumentality that has a clear potential due to design to be lethal. A firearm is designed to have that clear potential while a pepper spray is designed to have a lesser probability of lethality (why not a cyanide spray?). The law states that you are able to use methodologies that can be lethal and if the situation is justified, lethality per se is not illegal.

However, your intent in the situation is to stop it - but the law recognizes that you can use up to lethal means to do so - not that you wanted it to be lethal necessarily.

The correlation of lethality and stopping is high and accepted. But the intent is not stated to be lethality. If we do ever invent phasers with reliable stun settings, then the Federation's Brady bunch might argue for a ban on lethal phaser setting for civilians.

The risk for a poster is to put forward that they wanted to be lethal in action. If the shoot is not clear, then intent might be overtly or subconsciously viewed as making you more likely to shoot in a manner which was not legal.

Jurors with negative views towards firearms will probably fixated on that.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old June 8, 2010, 01:39 AM   #56
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by booker_t
This is a bit off-topic, and I 100% agree with Glenn's post above.. but I'm curious how do you connect "using lethal force" with the "intent to stop?"
Let's also remember that the law was written to permit you, under certain circumstances, to use "whatever means" to save your life or the life of another against attempts at murder or great bodily harm.

The object used is nearly irrelevant. The law says it is justifiable to use force, up to and including lethal force to repel the attack. The person who doesn't own a gun may use some lethal instrument - a machete, sword/cutlass, fireplace poker, etc. But that use has to be consistent with the law. If the attacker ceases being a threat then the victim ceases using force against the attacker.
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old June 8, 2010, 08:00 AM   #57
booker_t
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2009
Posts: 797
Thank you for the clarification, well explained.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
booker_t is offline  
Old June 8, 2010, 09:43 PM   #58
Glock_19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 123
Heck all this talk of Maglites being outdated... I still have and USE an original MX-991\U from Vietnam.


Just to clarify I wasn't in Vietnam, the light was given to me by my grandfather.
Glock_19 is offline  
Old June 9, 2010, 03:13 PM   #59
JohnH1963
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2008
Posts: 416
I did see the CR123a batteries on Amazon and if you buy them in bulk then you can get them down to a $1. On the other hand, you can get 40 Kirkland AA's on Amazon for $15 (Consumer Reports says these are just as good as Duracell/Energizer) and that comes down to 37 cents a battery.

When I was buying my Fenix light, I took different things into consideration between the AA and CR123A models. What it came down to was that AA batteries would be more available in emergency situations then CR123as.

For example, there was a blizzard here some months back which took out the power for an extended period of time. I had plenty of flashlights and batteries for that time, but lets say I did not have spare batteries when it hit. I could easily fish out some AA batteries from my camera flash or a travel clock radio. There are lots of AAs sitting in my draw. Another example, earthquake hits and the building collapses around you. You are stuck inside the wreckage with a little room to move around. Do you think you can find more AAs in that small room or CR123as?

I have confidence that AAs will be more widely available then CR123s in the event of a disaster.
JohnH1963 is offline  
Old June 9, 2010, 04:05 PM   #60
cliff987
Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 20
I just picked an LED Mag-light set at Costco for $29.xx for anyone interested...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mag.JPG (73.0 KB, 17 views)
cliff987 is offline  
Old June 9, 2010, 11:05 PM   #61
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,551
I didnt read most posts-maybe someone else posted this.
I worked w/ a fellow about 6/6 300#-BIGG.

He showed us how the APs in VN carried larger mag lights. Hope I can explain.
Dangle your hand at your side-take hold of the flashlight w/ the 'reflector bell' above your hands grip. Now rotate the flashlight to illuminate your target. If the perp grabs the skinney end of the flashlight he has to pull the bell through your hand. Your advantage.

If you just pick up the light and point it at the target-perp grabs the bell and your hand slides right off the battery tube-his advantage.
langenc is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05265 seconds with 9 queries