357 mag vs 44 mag for hunting - Page 2

Guv · November 6, 2014, 05:19 PM

Well buck we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I've been hunting for 40+ years so I have seen a little.

mxsailor803 · November 6, 2014, 07:35 PM

I'm on the fence for this one. I've killed deer and hogs with both calibers and never had a issue as long as you use the correct bullet. I'm going to say shoot what you are accurate with and what ever fits your hand better.

Hunter Customs · November 6, 2014, 07:52 PM

I've killed two deer with handguns, one was with a 357 mag the other was with a 45ACP.

I have two 44 mag revolvers, for some strange reason I've never used either to kill a deer, although I'm sure they would be up to the task.

I plan on deer hunting this year with a handgun but the caliber I plan on using this year is a 45 LC so the 44s will stay in the safe another year.

I hurt my shooting hand about three weeks back in a horse mishap, the swelling has pretty much gone down but it hurts like the dickens when the revolver recoils.
I keep practicing though because our firearms season starts in 9 days.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

Model12Win · November 6, 2014, 07:52 PM

.357 magnum has done a number on whitetail, IMHO it's a formidable round for either man OR beast.

briandg · November 7, 2014, 12:09 AM

There are people who would disagree with the .45 acp as a deer gun. In the past it was not allowed for deer in my state. .357 magnum (not 38 special) .41 and .44 magnum, along with most other .357 or larger bore centerfire. the old cowboy calibers would have been included, the key was At or over .357 and at a minimum bullet weight.

I personally think the ACP is capable of deer hunting. I look at it as pretty much the equal of the .357 in that regard. Don't think that 9mm is particularly appropriate, or .38 special. Even with the newest best ammunition. I say that mostly because it's not likely that a person will get a double tap on a whitetail at 50 yards. A single round needs to be fully up to the task.

Real Gun · November 7, 2014, 07:19 AM

Quote:

My long time hunting buddy says to get a 44 mag but I have always like the 357 mag because I can put 38s through it and practice for cheaper.

What you need to practice is the recoil of the 357. The 38 is not useful practice except for fundamentals that you could do with a 22. The 38 in a proper 357 platform suitable for hunting becomes a plinker or a target round in a gun too big to carry everyday.

If you reload, you pretty well remove preoccupation with ammo cost. 41 and 44 Magnum are the more serious hunting guns and there is a full range of loads you can use, not necessarily intimidating.

briandg · November 7, 2014, 03:21 PM

It's true that working only with .38s will result in a variety of troubles when you fill it up with real loads.

If a person reloads, it's much better to load nothing but .357, but it isn't necessary to make every load a full power found.

Find a load in the mid range between full power and say 1,000 fps, train with both full and mid range loads.

You can save enormous amounts of money with lead and less powder, and still be able to shoot 296 and jacketed bullets properly when the time comes.

Honestly, I don't really find any problems when i set aside my S&W .38 and take out my colt .357. Get practice with both and your expectations will carry through.

Model12Win · November 7, 2014, 06:39 PM

Quote:

I personally think the ACP is capable of deer hunting.

So what ACP are we talking here? .32 ACP, .380 ACP??

Fisher · November 7, 2014, 11:06 PM

I have taken deer with both calibers but prefer the .44 over the .357. My reasoning is that realistically you just don't always make that perfect shot. The .44 gives you that extra margin of error in those cases. I hunt with a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 magnum. I also hunt with a scoped T/C Contender in .44 magnum. The Contender has taken deer out at 100 yards with the 240 grain Hornady XTP bullet. You can't ask for much better performance with a pistol.

Jim

Bella · November 8, 2014, 10:00 AM

A few of the posts here mention recoil as a consideration for not using a 44 magnum.

I have owned and shot 44 magnums. I am not particularly big or strong, but the recoil didn't bother me.

Snyper · November 8, 2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

So what ACP are we talking here? .32 ACP, .380 ACP??

That was stated in the first sentence:

Quote:

There are people who would disagree with the .45 acp as a deer gun

briandg · November 9, 2014, 09:04 PM

Thank you, snyper. I get really tired of nitpickers.

.45 acp. I consider it adequate for hunting average sized whitetail deer. It may not work perfectly well with shots up the hind end. It may not be appropriate for the massive deer that are sometimes found in remoter areas. I'd personally hesitate to use it on anything much bigger than the deer that are typically found in my area, and I'd prefer not to fire unless I had a clear shot at the vitals.

I think of it as bow hunt type weapon. key is careful targeting. And YES, I know, I am purposely understating the probable effectiveness. I'm not someone who would deliberately inflate the value of a weapon. I am conservative.

22-rimfire · November 10, 2014, 01:04 PM

I understand you're wanting to use a 357 revolver for deer hunting. I felt the same way years ago when I purchased a 6" Colt Python specifically for hunting whitetails. I never shot a deer with the Python, because I moved up in caliber to 41 mag before actually taking a shot on a deer, and then to 480 Ruger. If I am going to be hunting with iron sights, I take the 41 mag. If I want a scope or other laser sight, I go with 480 Ruger. Why? I think the 41 mag is sufficient for deer hunting, but I am much more comfortable with a larger caliber at normal loadings. I like an optical device to for sighting when hunting as it just makes me more confident that I can make the shot rather than just hitting somewhere in the heart lung area/front shoulders and more confident that the hit will put them on the ground. The bullet diameter, hence the hole size makes a difference.

The comments here have pretty much on target as those made by the gun writers from years ago in the magazines regarding handgun hunting. In short, the 357 from a 6" revolver is adequate with good shot placement on a deer. I would limit my range to those where you are completely confident that you can make the shot. The 41 or 44 mag are both better when loaded to normal pressures. The 45LC is equal to the 44 mag when loaded hot.

Whatever you choose, please practice unless your intention is only to take shots of opportunity (very close range) and carry a rifle anyway. Hunting being what it is, if I have a rifle with me, I always choose the rifle as I am more confident that it will do the job. Hence, if you want to hunt with a handgun, I suggest you use the handgun as your primary firearm while hunting and leave the long gun home.

Don't depend on being able to take a second shot with a handgun hunting. Use enough caliber to do the job with one shot. So, you know my recommendation, but you will do what you want.

TimSr · November 10, 2014, 01:50 PM

These threads always get to me. The OP has not mentioned his hunting experience, but he has obviously never hand gun hunted before. The minimum caliber that "can kill a deer" is not what he was after. Unless you are a very skilled hunter that can manage a close shot opportunity (under 50 yds), and an excellent marksman that can make the precise shot, and an experienced tracker, who can recover it, I would avoid the .357. The .44 gives you more distance, a larger target area, and will do more damage and immobilize the deer faster.

Yes, .38/.357 ammo is cheaper, but if that is the deciding factor, you might be better off with a .357 carbine, and waiting until you learn to handload or can better afford ammo to handgun hunt.

I switched from .44 mag to .454 Casull years ago, (before the XTP bullets were available,) as I got tired of tracking deer that my 240gr cast SWCs were passing through. Yes, all kill the deer, but for a novice handgun hunter, why not use what does it best?

arwenmark · November 10, 2014, 02:30 PM

To TimSR

So are you saying the 357 carbine would do the job but the 357 handgun would not be so good?

I just bought a Ruger 77/357 for hunting and so I ask. I am not experienced with hunting, but wanted something that could be used for that but still take the same ammunition as my handguns.
Thanks.

TimSr · November 10, 2014, 02:59 PM

The handgun will do the job, but there is no margin for error.

The carbine adds quite a bit of velocity and performs more like the .44 pistol than a .357 pistol.

There is another long thread on here about bullet selection for a .357 carbine, so I won't go into that here.

22-rimfire · November 10, 2014, 04:04 PM

That would be my judgement as well with the carbine vs handgun in 357.

When I think of a 454 in a normal revolver, I think pain. But it is certainly a better caliber in my opinon as compared to any of the 41's or 44's.

The margin of error consideration is important. There are a lot of variables when you hit the woods and you seldom have just the perfect broadside shot with it standing still. But they happen just like that big buck that is angling quickly away from you at a fast walk at 75 yds or so.... should I or shouldn't I take a shot? (Shouldn't, unless you are very good.)

BIG P · November 11, 2014, 01:25 AM

Both are great,like them both.But the 454 Casull and the 45 Colt cover my bases better & not everybody has one.Mild to wild its hard to beat

BIG P · November 11, 2014, 01:27 AM

Both are great,like them both.But the 454 Casull and the 45 Colt cover my bases better & not everybody has one.Mild to wild its hard to beat

SRH. RUGER.

hartcreek · November 11, 2014, 05:40 AM

Bucksnort.....you need to shoot some of your buddies guns or rent at a range to see what you can handle.

This thread reminds me of just a few hours ago down at the local Cabellas store. I was looking for Green Dot and this customer comes in and is looking at the larger caliber hanguns and then goes into his story about how he is shooting a .460. Both the sales crerk and I roll our eyes as the customer tells his story of what he is shooting. The guy was my size and I highly doubt that he has ever picked up a .460.

A .44 magnum is plenty for everthing in my state even moose with proper shot placement. This hunting season I was in some thick stuff black bear hunting and my .44 magnum was simply too long so I carried my Uberti Walker. If you can handle larger and be accurate then by all means go larger.

Greguw · November 11, 2014, 03:30 PM

The Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 is a pretty nice single action .

Real Gun · November 11, 2014, 03:51 PM

Quote:

The Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 is a pretty nice single action .

I think I understand that the SBH is 44 Magnum, not 44 S&W Special, but I think we should be specific, since ordinary 44 S&W Special these days is about the same as shooting 45 ACP. Also the name New Model Blackhawk is very close and does include 44 S&W Special. In the context of this thread title, one could assume you meant 44 Magnum, but I did have to stop and orient myself to interpret what you wrote.

feets · November 11, 2014, 04:13 PM

Deer, like humans, are easy to kill. However, they are a bit difficult to stop quickly. True stores abound where a perfectly placed bullet does it's job perfectly and the deer still runs away. They're dead but just don't know it yet.

Carry enough gun for the job.

A 357 has done the trick for ages but it's a bit limiting. The 44 is a fine cartridge with an incredibly strong following.

Personally, I like the 45 Colt. It's a light comfortable shooter with the standard loads. Anyone strong enough to manage a good sight picture can likely shoot the gun comfortably.
When it comes time to hunt you simply slide in a little heavier loads and you're good to go.
There's no need to run maximum velocity loads through the Colt. If you're staying under 100 yards then a 250 grain or heavier bullet moving between 1100 and 1200 fps will do the trick. That's below 44 magnum levels and so is the recoil. It's still a comfortable recoil with the magnum drama.

My little 45 Colt is going afield in a couple weeks. I just had to decide which bullet to use.

Real Gun · November 11, 2014, 05:46 PM

Maybe we should get back on 357 vs 44 Mag instead of stopping by to say what we think is better than either one. Personally, I would like to hear more about how effective a 357 is supposed to be, since I am skeptical about it as a hunting caliber except in a rifle. If a better shot than I am at some range, good on ya.

Super Sneaky Steve · November 11, 2014, 09:35 PM

Quote:

I just bought a Ruger 77/357 for hunting and so I ask. I am not experienced with hunting, but wanted something that could be used for that but still take the same ammunition as my handguns.
Thanks.

That's the exact rifle I used last season to take a doe. A light robust bullet like a 125XTP will give you 30-30 energy. My hand load will dump 1,376ft/lbs into the animal and it's devistating.

The exit wound wasn't much bigger than the entrance wound which means most of the energy was left in the animal with just enough to punch out the back. That is the most perfect bullet performance one can ask for.

Remington makes a good 125 flat point that should be just as good. Their factory ammo is hot and accurate.

November 6, 2014, 07:52 PM	#29
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	.357 magnum has done a number on whitetail, IMHO it's a formidable round for either man OR beast. Last edited by Model12Win; November 6, 2014 at 09:17 PM.

November 7, 2014, 11:06 PM	#34
Fisher Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 1999 Location: Reynoldsburg, Ohio Posts: 329	I have taken deer with both calibers but prefer the .44 over the .357. My reasoning is that realistically you just don't always make that perfect shot. The .44 gives you that extra margin of error in those cases. I hunt with a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 magnum. I also hunt with a scoped T/C Contender in .44 magnum. The Contender has taken deer out at 100 yards with the 240 grain Hornady XTP bullet. You can't ask for much better performance with a pistol. Jim __________________ "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and passed on ... or we will spend our sunset years telling our children's children what it was like in the United States when men were free." ~ Ronald Reagan

November 10, 2014, 01:04 PM	#38
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	I understand you're wanting to use a 357 revolver for deer hunting. I felt the same way years ago when I purchased a 6" Colt Python specifically for hunting whitetails. I never shot a deer with the Python, because I moved up in caliber to 41 mag before actually taking a shot on a deer, and then to 480 Ruger. If I am going to be hunting with iron sights, I take the 41 mag. If I want a scope or other laser sight, I go with 480 Ruger. Why? I think the 41 mag is sufficient for deer hunting, but I am much more comfortable with a larger caliber at normal loadings. I like an optical device to for sighting when hunting as it just makes me more confident that I can make the shot rather than just hitting somewhere in the heart lung area/front shoulders and more confident that the hit will put them on the ground. The bullet diameter, hence the hole size makes a difference. The comments here have pretty much on target as those made by the gun writers from years ago in the magazines regarding handgun hunting. In short, the 357 from a 6" revolver is adequate with good shot placement on a deer. I would limit my range to those where you are completely confident that you can make the shot. The 41 or 44 mag are both better when loaded to normal pressures. The 45LC is equal to the 44 mag when loaded hot. Whatever you choose, please practice unless your intention is only to take shots of opportunity (very close range) and carry a rifle anyway. Hunting being what it is, if I have a rifle with me, I always choose the rifle as I am more confident that it will do the job. Hence, if you want to hunt with a handgun, I suggest you use the handgun as your primary firearm while hunting and leave the long gun home. Don't depend on being able to take a second shot with a handgun hunting. Use enough caliber to do the job with one shot. So, you know my recommendation, but you will do what you want. Last edited by 22-rimfire; November 10, 2014 at 01:10 PM.

November 10, 2014, 04:04 PM	#42
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	That would be my judgement as well with the carbine vs handgun in 357. When I think of a 454 in a normal revolver, I think pain. But it is certainly a better caliber in my opinon as compared to any of the 41's or 44's. The margin of error consideration is important. There are a lot of variables when you hit the woods and you seldom have just the perfect broadside shot with it standing still. But they happen just like that big buck that is angling quickly away from you at a fast walk at 75 yds or so.... should I or shouldn't I take a shot? (Shouldn't, unless you are very good.) Last edited by 22-rimfire; November 10, 2014 at 04:10 PM.

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November 6, 2014, 05:19 PM	#26
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	Well buck we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I've been hunting for 40+ years so I have seen a little.

November 6, 2014, 07:35 PM	#27
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	I'm on the fence for this one. I've killed deer and hogs with both calibers and never had a issue as long as you use the correct bullet. I'm going to say shoot what you are accurate with and what ever fits your hand better.

November 6, 2014, 07:52 PM	#28
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	I've killed two deer with handguns, one was with a 357 mag the other was with a 45ACP. I have two 44 mag revolvers, for some strange reason I've never used either to kill a deer, although I'm sure they would be up to the task. I plan on deer hunting this year with a handgun but the caliber I plan on using this year is a 45 LC so the 44s will stay in the safe another year. I hurt my shooting hand about three weeks back in a horse mishap, the swelling has pretty much gone down but it hurts like the dickens when the revolver recoils. I keep practicing though because our firearms season starts in 9 days. Best Regards Bob Hunter www.huntercustoms.com

November 7, 2014, 12:09 AM	#30
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	There are people who would disagree with the .45 acp as a deer gun. In the past it was not allowed for deer in my state. .357 magnum (not 38 special) .41 and .44 magnum, along with most other .357 or larger bore centerfire. the old cowboy calibers would have been included, the key was At or over .357 and at a minimum bullet weight. I personally think the ACP is capable of deer hunting. I look at it as pretty much the equal of the .357 in that regard. Don't think that 9mm is particularly appropriate, or .38 special. Even with the newest best ammunition. I say that mostly because it's not likely that a person will get a double tap on a whitetail at 50 yards. A single round needs to be fully up to the task.

November 7, 2014, 03:21 PM	#32
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	It's true that working only with .38s will result in a variety of troubles when you fill it up with real loads. If a person reloads, it's much better to load nothing but .357, but it isn't necessary to make every load a full power found. Find a load in the mid range between full power and say 1,000 fps, train with both full and mid range loads. You can save enormous amounts of money with lead and less powder, and still be able to shoot 296 and jacketed bullets properly when the time comes. Honestly, I don't really find any problems when i set aside my S&W .38 and take out my colt .357. Get practice with both and your expectations will carry through.

November 8, 2014, 10:00 AM	#35
Bella Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Posts: 341	A few of the posts here mention recoil as a consideration for not using a 44 magnum. I have owned and shot 44 magnums. I am not particularly big or strong, but the recoil didn't bother me.

November 9, 2014, 09:04 PM	#37
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Thank you, snyper. I get really tired of nitpickers. .45 acp. I consider it adequate for hunting average sized whitetail deer. It may not work perfectly well with shots up the hind end. It may not be appropriate for the massive deer that are sometimes found in remoter areas. I'd personally hesitate to use it on anything much bigger than the deer that are typically found in my area, and I'd prefer not to fire unless I had a clear shot at the vitals. I think of it as bow hunt type weapon. key is careful targeting. And YES, I know, I am purposely understating the probable effectiveness. I'm not someone who would deliberately inflate the value of a weapon. I am conservative.

November 10, 2014, 01:50 PM	#39
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	These threads always get to me. The OP has not mentioned his hunting experience, but he has obviously never hand gun hunted before. The minimum caliber that "can kill a deer" is not what he was after. Unless you are a very skilled hunter that can manage a close shot opportunity (under 50 yds), and an excellent marksman that can make the precise shot, and an experienced tracker, who can recover it, I would avoid the .357. The .44 gives you more distance, a larger target area, and will do more damage and immobilize the deer faster. Yes, .38/.357 ammo is cheaper, but if that is the deciding factor, you might be better off with a .357 carbine, and waiting until you learn to handload or can better afford ammo to handgun hunt. I switched from .44 mag to .454 Casull years ago, (before the XTP bullets were available,) as I got tired of tracking deer that my 240gr cast SWCs were passing through. Yes, all kill the deer, but for a novice handgun hunter, why not use what does it best?

November 10, 2014, 02:30 PM	#40
arwenmark Junior Member Join Date: November 7, 2014 Posts: 2	To TimSR So are you saying the 357 carbine would do the job but the 357 handgun would not be so good? I just bought a Ruger 77/357 for hunting and so I ask. I am not experienced with hunting, but wanted something that could be used for that but still take the same ammunition as my handguns. Thanks.

November 10, 2014, 02:59 PM	#41
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	The handgun will do the job, but there is no margin for error. The carbine adds quite a bit of velocity and performs more like the .44 pistol than a .357 pistol. There is another long thread on here about bullet selection for a .357 carbine, so I won't go into that here.

November 11, 2014, 01:25 AM	#43
BIG P Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,679	Both are great,like them both.But the 454 Casull and the 45 Colt cover my bases better & not everybody has one.Mild to wild its hard to beat

November 11, 2014, 01:27 AM	#44
BIG P Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,679	Both are great,like them both.But the 454 Casull and the 45 Colt cover my bases better & not everybody has one.Mild to wild its hard to beat SRH. RUGER.

November 11, 2014, 05:40 AM	#45
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	Bucksnort.....you need to shoot some of your buddies guns or rent at a range to see what you can handle. This thread reminds me of just a few hours ago down at the local Cabellas store. I was looking for Green Dot and this customer comes in and is looking at the larger caliber hanguns and then goes into his story about how he is shooting a .460. Both the sales crerk and I roll our eyes as the customer tells his story of what he is shooting. The guy was my size and I highly doubt that he has ever picked up a .460. A .44 magnum is plenty for everthing in my state even moose with proper shot placement. This hunting season I was in some thick stuff black bear hunting and my .44 magnum was simply too long so I carried my Uberti Walker. If you can handle larger and be accurate then by all means go larger.

November 11, 2014, 03:30 PM	#46
Greguw Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2006 Location: Bucks County , Pa Posts: 519	The Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 is a pretty nice single action .

November 11, 2014, 04:13 PM	#48
feets Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2008 Posts: 560	Deer, like humans, are easy to kill. However, they are a bit difficult to stop quickly. True stores abound where a perfectly placed bullet does it's job perfectly and the deer still runs away. They're dead but just don't know it yet. Carry enough gun for the job. A 357 has done the trick for ages but it's a bit limiting. The 44 is a fine cartridge with an incredibly strong following. Personally, I like the 45 Colt. It's a light comfortable shooter with the standard loads. Anyone strong enough to manage a good sight picture can likely shoot the gun comfortably. When it comes time to hunt you simply slide in a little heavier loads and you're good to go. There's no need to run maximum velocity loads through the Colt. If you're staying under 100 yards then a 250 grain or heavier bullet moving between 1100 and 1200 fps will do the trick. That's below 44 magnum levels and so is the recoil. It's still a comfortable recoil with the magnum drama. My little 45 Colt is going afield in a couple weeks. I just had to decide which bullet to use.

November 11, 2014, 05:46 PM	#49
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	Maybe we should get back on 357 vs 44 Mag instead of stopping by to say what we think is better than either one. Personally, I would like to hear more about how effective a 357 is supposed to be, since I am skeptical about it as a hunting caliber except in a rifle. If a better shot than I am at some range, good on ya.