Poll: Help me pick my new, (and 1st) Auto

[MontyCop05]

Ok fellas, my Christmas present to myself this year is a new Auto Shotgun. I'm debating over Gas vs Inertia, and have narrowed down my choices to the following:
Benelli-Super Black Eagle
M2
Remington- Versamax
1187
Winchester- SX3

I want a good all around gun suitable for Pheasant, Waterfowl, skeet/trap, Deer, and maybe even Turkey. This is why I'm considering the 2 3/4 - 3 1/2 models. I already have a Mossberg 500 and an Remi 870 which I have a rifled slug barrel for, so I can do deer with that as well.

I know the Benelli's are easier to clean, but kick harder without the comfort-tech stock, but are also reported to have some feeding issues with low power 2 3/4 shells. The Remi Versamax reviews I find are all very good, but I'm skeptical as it's very new and not been out long enough to be solidy proven in the field.

Everything I hear about the Winny SX3 is excellent, up to the point that it doesn't require the frequent cleaning that most gas auto do.

[hogdogs]

Other...

Don't forget to check out the Mossberg offerings... Affordable, American Made guns with some original Mossberg family members still working there....

Brent

[zippy13]

Unless you've already shot, and tolerated the recoil of a a 3-1/2" 12-ga gun, don't make super-mag capability a requirement of your new gun. For very heavy goose loads, many consider the 10-ga a more pleasant shooting gun.

[BigJimP]

I have a different model Benelli - a Super Sport - but it cycles 2 3/4" shells just fine.

Whether an Inertia gun cycles or not - has nothing to do with the length of the hull - and everything to do with the velocity or Dram Equivalent rating of the shell.

My Benelli will cycle any load in a 12ga - even down to 7/8 oz of shot as long as its at least 1200 fps ---- it will not cycle loads at 1150 fps.

I concur with Zippy - for most of us - a 3" chamber on a gun is plenty / and there are plenty of magnum loads out there in 3" shells.

Picking a gun / you need to pick the one that "Fits" you the best .... / I like the Benelli.

[thinkingman]

Agree with above...I don't know anyone that shoots 3 1/2" shells, most buy them for bragging rights.
Gas guns shoot softer and handle clay loads better.
Winnie SX3 or Browning clone

[LanceOregon]

MontyCop:

You have left out some of the very best gas operated autoloading shotguns on the market:

The new Browning Maxus

The Beretta AL391 Urika 2

The new Beretta A400 Explor Light and Explor Unico

Did you simply overlook these shotguns? Or is there a reason why you left them out?

Everything I hear about the Winny SX3 is excellent, up to the point that it doesn't require the frequent cleaning that most gas auto do.

Browning has made a similar claim for the Browning Maxus. As has Beretta for both the AL 391 Urika 2, and the A400 product line.

I don't personally own any of these newer shotguns, though. So I cannot comment whether these claims are really more marketing hype to help sell guns, or actually significant improvements. But there is more than one company making this type of claim.

.

[LanceOregon]

For very heavy goose loads, many consider the 10-ga a more pleasant shooting gun.

That statement is absolute and complete nonsense. Where on earth did you hear such tomfoolery?

For one, there are very, very few 10 gauge autoloaders on the market. They are heavy and unwieldy guns. Both of the guns ( Browning Gold 10 and Remington SP-10, are very dated designs, too. Certainly far older technology than the current 12 gauge 3.5 inch shotguns on the market.

Second, I doubt that you have actually shot 3.5 inch 12 gauge shells out of any of the better SuperMags. I've certainly found such ammo to be relatively easy to shoot in my Beretta Extrema 2. And I don't have the KickOff stock installed on my Extrema 2, either.

.

[zippy13]

That statement is absolute and complete nonsense. Where on earth did you hear such tomfoolery?

Right here at the shotgun forum.

[LanceOregon]

So you admit that you have no first hand knowledge yourself?

If that is really the consensus of this forum, then logic would dictate that we would hear the same feedback here in this thread too.

[LanceOregon]

Well Zippy, I did some searches here in this forum going back a couple of years, and the only other post that I could find here making this same assertion was another one made by yourself. And you made no claim in that post that you were referring to any posts made by others.

I could find ZERO posts from anyone saying that they even own a Browning Gold 10 gauge. I did find two posts from people who said that they had owned the Remington SP-10, though. One of them said that he had to sell the gun, however, because it was just way too difficult to shoot being that it is so very heavy.

The other person claimed that his SP-10 had the SAME level of recoil as shooting 3.5 inch 12 gauge shells from a Browning Gold 3.5 inch 12 gauge, but LESS than a Winchester SX2 3.5 inch 12. And that makes no sense at all, since the Winchester SX2 was practically identical in every way to the Browning Gold 3.5

Plus, I originally had a Winchester SX2 3.5 that I hunted with before I got my Beretta Extrema 2, and gave the SX2 to my son. And I shot 3.5 inch shells in it without any difficulty or discomfort.

So no, I don't see any evidence here in the forum to backup your position on this issue.

.

[MontyCop05]

Any more guys out there shooting Inertia guns? I'd like to hear more from that side of the fence.

[MontyCop05]

MontyCop:

You have left out some of the very best gas operated autoloading shotguns on the market:

The new Browning Maxus

The Beretta AL391 Urika 2

The new Beretta A400 Explor Light and Explor Unico

Did you simply overlook these shotguns? Or is there a reason why you left them out?

No particular reason, other than I've never been a big Beretta fan, and they are kinda pricey. I can get better deals in my area on the guns I have listed.

I do kinda like the Browning Maxus Carbon though. However I have the Browning side covered with the SX3.

[Tombstonejim]

I have a benelli super sport in 20ga it shoots far softer than my Remington 1100 in 20 ga. The benelli is my favorite shotgun. The benelli reminds me of an AR almost no recoil and you can actually hear the bolt cycling when fired.

[rigby06]

I have a Benelli M1, it is more of a tatical shotgun, with only a 20" barrell, but it feeds anything in the 2 3/4" or 3" load, and cycles bird shot as well as buck shot. As for me I am most impressed with the speed it can shoot. 8 rounds in less than 2 seconds ; but that is most likely overkill for hunting.

[Deerhunter]

I voted other.....here is why......

I just bought a Browning Maxus a few months ago. It is the 28 inch barrel 2 3/4-3.5 inch chamber model. It handles the light target load on the skeet/trap field with no issues. I shot 2 3/4 inch high velocity 7.5s out of it with no issue. It doesn't kick near as much at my 870 Express Mag kicks with the 3 inch shells. I went with it because I liked the feel. It shouldered good on me. I also like the weight. I wanted to use it for upland hunting, dove hunting and for ducks and geese. I didn't want to be carrying a heavy gun around. I love mine, best choice I could have made and the price was right. $1300

[idek]

My personal vote is for the Winchester SX3, but that's because a) it fits me better than most guns, and b) it's among the lighter guns you have listed, and I primarily hunt pheasants where a light gun is preferable.

I'm not sure how much trap/skeet you'd shoot, but most people who are serious about those sports use gas-autos. Not to say Benellis couldn't do the job, but it's not the trend.

[zippy13]

LanceOregon,

Originally Posted by LanceOregon

Well Zippy, I did some searches here in this forum going back a couple of years, and the only other post that I could find here making this same assertion was another one made by yourself.

You must be one of those super speed readers to have perused several years of forum postings in such a brief time. A applaud your abilities, I'm sure if the comments I recall really existed, then you would have certainly found them.

If you feel I was wrong to suggest to the OP that he might not really want 3 1/2" capability in his new gun, then just say so. There's no need to turn your opinion in into a trolling expedition. I surmise you've made it a personal issue because of the recent thread Browning Auto 5 question by jmoo1201.

In that thread, Scorch commented to DG45 about Browning's activities in St.Louis with:

...Browning is an import/export company, they do not manufacture arms.

At which point you joined the thread with:

That is a completely false statement.

I mentioned to DG45 that guns often have the address of the importer, and I added:

I suspect the recent contradictory info from Scorch and Lance may be a matter of semantic interpretation. How about info on where and when Browning owned and operated a domestic gun works.

Scorch added, with respect to Browning's domestic production:

OK, lance. Tell me what firearms Browning maufactures.

That was the last posting in that thread.

Given the opportunity, you didn't substantiate your position, nor apologize for essentially calling Scorch a liar; but, you're at it again.

[oneounceload]

they are kinda pricey. I can get better deals in my area on the guns I have listed.

Berettas aren't the cheapest out there, but they make one of the best semi's around.....and I can vouch for A400 X-plor - mine will handle my light 3/4 oz target loads, and it is capable of everything up to 3-1/2" - not that it will ever see one that large, and doubtful over 2-3/4", but with the KO system, shims for adjustment, it definitely is a great gun and very versatile

And I shot 3.5 inch shells in it without any difficulty or discomfort.

Wow....you must have a bionic shoulder, Lance.......personally, I see no need for those shells..but then I stopped waterfowling when lead was banned. Good for you and your shoulder if you can shoot those on a regular basis

[Deerhunter]

I shoot the 3.5s out of my Browning Maxus. They aren't nearly as bad as the 3s I shot out of my 870 Express Mag. My Maxus is in the Mossy Oak Duck Blind camo. It has shims for adjustments also. It came with 3 chokes and a wrench. Cleaning is easy. I have been out twice to the skeet range with it. Both times I put 125 rounds through it with out an issue. It only took me about 30 minutes to break it down, clean it and put it back together. That is fast since I do a real good cleaning not just a wipe down.

@MontyCop05.....good luck in your search. Hope you get enough info to make a good decision and then enjoy what you decided on. I went through this when I was looking at auto loaders. Lots of arguments back and forth about what it "better". I finally just decided that I liked the feel, look and weight of the Browning Maxus over the others. Who made it, where it was made or who imported it didn't much matter. It performs great and I love it. Best thing I could have done was buy that gun. Notice I said "Best thing I could have done." Everyone is different.

[markj]

Have you looked at teh rem 1100s that are being made now?

We do shoot geese, but use 10 ga. Have better kill ratios than with the 12 ga.

[MontyCop05]

Have you looked at teh rem 1100s that are being made now?

I have. I'm a big Remington fan. Always have been since I started shooting as a little kid. My hunting rifle of choice is a 700, and I've been hunting with my 870 for years.

It's just time for an upgrade. The 1187 is my fall back option. I wouldn't be upset with one, and I'm more than sure there will be one in my collection at some point. There are just so many other options out there, I'd be a fool to paint my self into a corner by not considering them. Plus I've shot the 1100, the 1187, Benelli's, Beretta's and Brownings, and I have to say the higher end guns do have their appeal. The old Remi 1187 is has an action like a typewriter, but it works. The others are generally smother, faster, and offer more modern perks.

Some of you guys are right; a lot of it is going to come down to handling. It's going to be whats lightest, and points best for me. I can tell you that all the Benelli's I've shot or handled, have fallen right onto my eye perfectly. So we'll see how the Browning and Winchester do as I haven't had any hands on time with their recent offerings.

Keep the post following. I'm a feedback glutton on this one. After this one, it will probably be a few years before I get another shotty so I'll take all the experience you can throw at me guys.

[roy reali]

many consider the 10-ga a more pleasant shooting gun.

Here in Nevada 10 gauge shotguns can not be used on state managed properties. I also believe Federal Refuges prohibit them too. I guess they could be used on private property.

[zippy13]

Roy,
I don't have a clue, do you shoot many geese (or other 10-ga sized targets) in Nevada? I thought you were pretty much isolated between the Pacific and Central flyways.

My initial point was, shooting a 10-ga gun will have less perceived recoil than a similar equivalently loaded 12-ga gun with 3-1/2s. This is due to 10-ga guns typically being heavier and operating at lower pressures. In past threads, members mentioned they'd shot 3-1/2" loads in their 12-ga guns and they weren't going to repeat the experience -- preferring a 10ga for the heavy loads. To those members, getting a 3-1/2" chambered 12-ga had been a waste. I was trying to save the OP from that experience. That's why I asked if he'd shot 3-1/2" 12-ga loads; however, it seems I irked at least one 3-1/2" 12-ga fan.

MontyCop05, the OP, mentioned "skeet/trap" as one of the uses for his new gun. Generally, semi-auto shotguns that will accommodate 3-1/2" shells will only function with the heavier target loads -- the auto-loaders with shorter chambers seem to function better with the lighter target loads (below 3 dram equivalent). In a subsequent post he (the OP) mentioned that he's a "feedback glutton" so I'm guessing he's interested in many varied opinions. He may find your comment on Nevada 10-ga restrictions pertinent to his selection. I can see where a 3-1/2" 12-ga could be attractive where 10-ga guns are prohibited.

[MontyCop05]

He may find your comment on Nevada 10-ga restrictions pertinent to his selection. I can see where a 3-1/2" 12-ga could be attractive where 10-ga guns are prohibited.

Zippy,

I'm not interested in getting a 10ga. at this point. I might have one at some point...should I trip over one at a steal of a price, but I'm not exactly looking to add one to my collection. I will be hunting waterfowl with my new gun so I'd like the 3-1/2 capability, but as you pointed out, I also want it to cycle trap loads. This is why the Versamax interests me so much. I trust in Big Green, and if what they say, and if what the gun reviews say are true, it's supposed to have no problems with shells down to 7/8s reloads. However, I doubt there is more than one or two folks on here that have one. Being they're so new and in short supply. Also the chances they are also trolling on this forum reduce my odds even more of getting some good hunter-to-hunter field test review info. I've scoured the net looking for info and only found the a few decent, and what I would call trustworthy, write-ups amongst the advertising propaganda.

[zippy13]

MontyCop05,

Thanks for the heads-up.

In a previous thread on the Versa Max, I opined that the gas system was an interesting design concept; but, having the gas inlet array in the forcing cone area could invite fouling problems. Consequently, I wouldn't want to be "the first one on the block" to have one. Were I in your shoes, I'd want some trigger time with the Versa Max before finalizing my decision. I realize this may be difficult with a fresh model.

I assume you are aware of the Versa Max recall. This might be delaying the model's general distribution. Remington recommends against shooting guns that haven't had the hammer enhancement. Upgraded guns will: "contain a 'V' stamped that can be seen by looking in the ejection port or through the carrier."