low velocity wad cutters in 38 spcl - Page 4

KyJim · December 29, 2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Sorry to sound like a broken record, but even at around 600 to 650 fps the wadcutter will blow through more than 12" of 20% ballistic gelatin. See links above for proof.

Keep in mind the 20% ballistic gel test mix meaning that you cannot compare that with the standard 10% calibrated gel test mix. Also, that was bare gelatin. Add clothing and there are penetration concerns with a bullet moving at 600 fps. Not saying it won't kill someone, of course.

Nanuk · December 29, 2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Most "real world" data is anecdotal hence all the bashing of Marshal and Sanow.

That is why I believe what I see. I carry and recommend what I know works, and do not recommend what I know does not work. I have seen enough people shot in enough different situations with enough different guns/ammo combo's to put faith in the 357 magnum and not the 38 special. That energy does SOMETHING, sure we cannot quantify it in a lab, but it is what it is.

For real world data one simply needs to find police reporting on officer involved shooting. Just because you dislike one messenger, does not mean they all have the same message.

BerdanSS · December 29, 2012, 02:40 PM

pelo801:

Your opinion. your entitled to it.

I was referring more to the "OMG i broke a nail" kind of can't shoot anything but a round so castrated I'm still going to be killed by my attacker after they've been shot with five of them.....goes hand in hand with picking a firearm for SD because "it looks pretty".

I don't subscribe to the feel good nurture anyone and everyone stuff. I would rather carry a .22 mag with hollow points than a super loaded down already weak cartridge.

I wouldn't recommend loading up you CCW with high velocity FMJ rounds either. This is a serious responsibility, and you can just do whatever and take the anything is better than nothing approach.

cochise · December 29, 2012, 03:46 PM

Very intresting topic and info. A couple of points I would like to highlight.

Accuracy should be number one.

A HBWC is "SOFTER" lead, ( less penetration), than a DEWC.

I shot HBWC reverse and the accuracy was not good as a "normal" positon WC.

We can argue projectiles till "the cows come home". Fun isn't it.

warningshot · December 31, 2012, 03:14 AM

Very true.

Looking back, I realized some posters do not have, or have different, definitions of key terms. Oh well.

seeker_two · December 31, 2012, 11:48 AM

Maybe I'm not as well-versed on ballistics as I thought, but can someone explain to me what a 600fps wadcutter can do that a 800fps semiwadcutter can't do slightly better?....

jmortimer · December 31, 2012, 12:08 PM

Depending on the alloy, nothing, within reason, the faster the better with .38 Special wadcutters.

chewie146 · December 31, 2012, 12:14 PM

I've switched to wadcutters in .359 caliber, and that's all I load now. I'll push them from about 750 up to 1200 fps with hard cast DEWC profiles. I love them. They hit like a hammer at all velocities. I usually carry the low end loads. If you're set on 650 fps, I'd say that you may want a smaller caliber gun rather than insisting on a larger bullet going slower. .32 H&R mag doesn't recoil much and pushes the bullet faster, though it is lighter. It's a balance of diameter/sectional density, energy, and momentum, despite the arguments for the merits of each.

spacecoast · December 31, 2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Maybe I'm not as well-versed on ballistics as I thought, but can someone explain to me what a 600fps wadcutter can do that a 800fps semiwadcutter can't do slightly better?

It's likely a little easier on your ears, but carries only about 56% of the muzzle energy.

chewie146 · December 31, 2012, 07:09 PM

Exactly. There's something nice about shooting at rabbits and retaining your hearing. Of course, any .38 load is better than all .22 loads for general use.

warningshot · December 31, 2012, 11:19 PM

For that person whom just can't stand the extra 200 fps, I'd lie.

I'd say this load feels like it is going 800 fps but it just really going 600. Then show them something in writing, ( Liar Liar Pants-on-Fire) ''After a couple more shots you will be able to tell it's only 600''.

Redhawk5.5+P+ · January 1, 2013, 04:20 AM

Yes

Quote:

Very intresting topic and info. A couple of points I would like to highlight.

Accuracy should be number one.

A HBWC is "SOFTER" lead, ( less penetration), than a DEWC.

"SOFTER" lead might not expand uniformly, but it does distort right?.

TBS, it might not go straight, but only to yaw, maybe spin or take a different path threw soft tissue.

cochise · January 1, 2013, 10:25 AM

"SOFTER" lead might not expand uniformly, but it does distort right?.

TBS, it might not go straight, but only to yaw, maybe spin or take a different path threw soft tissue.

Yes, I think there are times when that would be an advantage.

One issue, what is the intended use. Target shooting on paper, plinking in the woods, occasional rabbit or squirrel, or self defense.

December 29, 2012, 03:46 PM	#79
cochise Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 299	Very intresting topic and info. A couple of points I would like to highlight. Accuracy should be number one. A HBWC is "SOFTER" lead, ( less penetration), than a DEWC. I shot HBWC reverse and the accuracy was not good as a "normal" positon WC. We can argue projectiles till "the cows come home". Fun isn't it. __________________ Jim

December 31, 2012, 03:14 AM	#80
warningshot Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Posts: 995	Very true Mr. Cochise Very true. Looking back, I realized some posters do not have, or have different, definitions of key terms. Oh well.

December 31, 2012, 11:48 AM	#81
seeker_two Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2002 Location: Deep in the Heart of the Lone Star State (TX) Posts: 2,169	Maybe I'm not as well-versed on ballistics as I thought, but can someone explain to me what a 600fps wadcutter can do that a 800fps semiwadcutter can't do slightly better?.... __________________ Proud member of Gun Culture 2.0......

January 1, 2013, 10:25 AM	#88
cochise Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Orlando Posts: 299	"SOFTER" lead might not expand uniformly, but it does distort right?. TBS, it might not go straight, but only to yaw, maybe spin or take a different path threw soft tissue. Yes, I think there are times when that would be an advantage. One issue, what is the intended use. Target shooting on paper, plinking in the woods, occasional rabbit or squirrel, or self defense. __________________ Jim

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December 29, 2012, 02:40 PM	#78
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	pelo801: Your opinion. your entitled to it. I was referring more to the "OMG i broke a nail" kind of can't shoot anything but a round so castrated I'm still going to be killed by my attacker after they've been shot with five of them.....goes hand in hand with picking a firearm for SD because "it looks pretty". I don't subscribe to the feel good nurture anyone and everyone stuff. I would rather carry a .22 mag with hollow points than a super loaded down already weak cartridge. I wouldn't recommend loading up you CCW with high velocity FMJ rounds either. This is a serious responsibility, and you can just do whatever and take the anything is better than nothing approach.

December 31, 2012, 12:08 PM	#82
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Depending on the alloy, nothing, within reason, the faster the better with .38 Special wadcutters.

December 31, 2012, 12:14 PM	#83
chewie146 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 853	I've switched to wadcutters in .359 caliber, and that's all I load now. I'll push them from about 750 up to 1200 fps with hard cast DEWC profiles. I love them. They hit like a hammer at all velocities. I usually carry the low end loads. If you're set on 650 fps, I'd say that you may want a smaller caliber gun rather than insisting on a larger bullet going slower. .32 H&R mag doesn't recoil much and pushes the bullet faster, though it is lighter. It's a balance of diameter/sectional density, energy, and momentum, despite the arguments for the merits of each.

December 31, 2012, 07:09 PM	#85
chewie146 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 853	Exactly. There's something nice about shooting at rabbits and retaining your hearing. Of course, any .38 load is better than all .22 loads for general use.

December 31, 2012, 11:19 PM	#86
warningshot Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2009 Posts: 995	For that person whom just can't stand the extra 200 fps, I'd lie. I'd say this load feels like it is going 800 fps but it just really going 600. Then show them something in writing, ( Liar Liar Pants-on-Fire) ''After a couple more shots you will be able to tell it's only 600''.