Best Rifle for Stopping a Charging Grizzly Bear?? -- Photo

[moosemike]

12 gauge slug.

[thinkingman]

The springtime bear thread...two days late this year.

If you must carry a rifle, 45/70 lever with solids.

You may make a heroic shot on an animal moving at the speed of a horse, pumped with adrenaline, and the target the size of a paper plate.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...for me a shotty with 2 or 3 loads of lead birdshot...7's, 8's 9's, backed by buckshot.
A pattern of birdshot to the face of the bear can or will disable his ability to target me, and a bear that can't see me is less likely to inflict damage.
My goal in a bear encounter is to not get hurt.
If I disable that bear's ability to see me, I have a reasonable chance of escape, when or where the bear dies is of little interest to me.
Saving my ass is.
I'll let the other guys be heros.

[Kreyzhorse]

Probably I'd die.

+1. Short and direct.

If I were being charged, I'd hope for at least a hot loaded 45-70 gov't and the time to get a few good shots off.

[briandg]

It wouldn't hurt for this thing to be a little more specific as to exactly what the bear is doing. Charging? Dancing in a little dunce cap while someone throws peanuts? digging through trash cans, glaring through the bars of a cage? Every one of them has a different set of needs, too.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I want a Remington 1100 loaded with the nastiest slugs I can find, probably Remington Core-Lokt Ultras, and I want a LARGE can of VERY potent pepper spray attached to the front of the gun with a switch on the forward grip.

If pepper spray and 12ga slugs don't solve the problem, well, "For me, to live is Christ, to have died is gain."

[Scorch]

Is there a sure way to know what the bear is thinking at this point in time, as it locks its eyes on you and heads towards you?

Scientific tests have repeatedly confirmed that at that point, the bear is thinking "YYYUUMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmm! Soft! Crunchy! Juicy! YUUUMMmmmmmmmmmmmm!"

What rifle would you want to have with you?

Anything from 338 Win Mag to 375 H&H. Anything much bigger and it's tough to fire repeatedly and load quickly. If you doubt this, try loading a 460 Weatherby after just firing 3 rounds quickly, you will find you are impaired.

[crghss]

Bear spray.......:barf:

[briandg]

Bear spray.......:barf:

That's my favorite flavor of buffalo wing. I advise you to respect it.

[taylorce1]

Truthfully I'd use whatever I'm carrying.

Now if I'm big game hunting in bear country where I think I have a good chance of running into a grizzly then I proabably wouldn't hunt with anything less than a .30-06 and 180 grain premium ammunition. Hunting for the big boys I'd probably use my .338-06, .35 Whelen or .375 Ruger, again all with premium bullets starting at 225 grains and going up. Now if I'm upland or small game hunting then I'll be stuck using a shotgun or small caliber rifle and I'll keep shooting until the bear gets me, or he gives up.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by crghss

Bear spray.......

Research has shown repeatedly that bear spray is more effective than firearms.

[kodiakbeer]

99% of bear "charges" aren't charges at all. They're just territorial or threat displays.

If you watch the video below of a coastal brown/grizzly, you'll see me avert one incident at 1:02, and stop a "charge" at 1:40. How? Just be lowering my head and looking at the ground. At 1:02, the camera (and my face) pans down and the bear immediately looses interest. At 1:40 he actually makes a run towards me and while the camera actually pans right it's because I'm moving it away he can see my face - I just look at my feet (I'm no threat!) and he stops his "charge" immediately. He's inside 30 yards at that point.
If he'd come any closer, I'd have begun yelling and intimidating him, or zapped him with pepper spray.

The general situation is that I saw the bear on the beach at dawn, and approached so that he had a clear exit to the brush - I approached along the beach. The bear ignored me, but then ran through the water chasing salmon until he was opposite me offshore, so that I was directly blocking him from cover. That's when he got nervous. The vid is a series of clips strung together, and between each short section, I'm moving laterally away from him down the beach, or trying to, but he keeps running up and down and getting close to me. After a 4 or 5 minutes of this, I just backtracked off the beach at about 45 degrees facing him (don't move directly away from bears!), and when I was at 75 yards or so, he totally lost interest in me.

Anyway, to summarize - relax! Most bears are shot for no good reason. Grizzlies will run towards you, woof at you, snap their jaws at you - and it means nothing more than "You are too close!" Pepper spray works. Shotguns and rifles also work, but they just aren't necessary in the vast majority of cases. The Ideal situation is to have one guy armed with a large firearm, and another guy ready with pepper spray.

I'm no tree-hugger, but don't shoot the bears unless it's the real deal! If he's puffed up - ears up, he's only playing mind games. If he's low to the ground, ears down, he's really attacking. Know the difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt86lKjaA7c

[kaylorinhi]

What Gun?

+1 for TangentAbacus

Ghost Rings and probably have the Bayonet attached as well!

*If it must be a rifle, M-4A1 with Eotech and Multiple Thirty round P-Mags jammed with 62gr OT Match. I can fire faster scared than he can run mad and I know that weapon like the back of my hand!

[sc928porsche]

I hunt bruins with a 378WBY.

[(BH)]

Uhh, 45-70, 12ga slug, or something else big and mean if I had a choice...

I'd be glad just to have a .44 in that scenario. We've all heard of burly guides dropping grizzly with 30-30's, but I'd prefer my former options.

[SavageSniper]

Something belt fed
If I'm caught in THAT situation, I'm gonna shoot. Sorry but I know me. He looks like a starved fat boy dropped off at a buffet. I have heard all the stories of bears bluffing but I could not tell you one from another.

[Buzzcook]

Four bore double. How many times do I have to tel you guys this?

[williamd]

I lived,hunted and guided in B.C. for several years. My Grizzlty gun, if I was hunting, was a Sako in 375H&H. Brutal but effective. For guiding backup I carried a Rem M660 in 350RM loaded hot. It was for ease of carry and movement.

By the way, Grizzleys cannot usually climb trees due to their claw configuration. The Griz might just knock the tree over if it is not substantial. Blacks can scoot right up faster than the 'lineman for the county'! And both can outrun you easily ... before you can even turn around.

I hear pepper spray is pretty good. Think I'd afix it to the business end of 350/375!

[qtzmznt]

on the "bear bomb" topic...

I actually have experience with this, but not in the bacon wrapped variety. Backpacking in the Wind River range of Wyoming ~10 years ago we had our food hung off the side of a 60' cliff where we were camping and saw from across the valley a black bear in our camp on top of the cliff. By the time we made it to the camp, the bear was gone. The food hung over the cliff was untouched, but the bear spray we'd left in a crack in the rock had been bitten into spraying orange pepper spray all over. Two canine punctures in the can indicated pretty clearly that the bear got a direct shot.

That habituated bear was back in our camp the next day. It never got any food from us and we chased it away several times with noise and rocks. I heard a year later that a problem bear had been put down in that same drainage by rangers.

[Alaska444]

This is a very common topic. With a charging grizzly, you will be quite lucky to get off two shots. Those shots will need to count with shot placement the most important factor. I have seen reports that the largest brown bear killed died at the hands of someone holding a .22 rifle.

Secondly, small caliber rifles are not what you want. Many list 3000 foot/pounds of muzzle energy as the minimum. This places the 30-06 just at the minimum level as well as the large bore .444. I have a medical condition with my left arm that limits the amount of recoil I can handle and that is why I went with the .444 with extra weight. It shoots like a 20 ga at 9 pounds total weight. Buffalo Bore has a 335 gr bullet that will get their attention with the proper placement. That is the most important factor.

The only way to drop a charging grizzly is with a CNS hit, but that is a very tiny target moving up and down. My father shot a black bear up in Alaska while sheep hunting looking down the side of a hill. He hit is with one shot between its shoulders and that was the end. A heart/lung shot will kill the bear but it may not stop it immediately. The other option is a shoulder hit that disables the bear. All of these are very difficult emergency placements to hit with a moving bear that can cover 40 yards in two seconds. Shot placement and deep penetration are the only combinations that will work for an instant drop. I hope I never have to put that to practice, avoidance is still the best policy.

[nickE10mm]

I would probably say my prayers if I saw that. The idea is to not let it come to that. By the time you see this picture it may very well be over soon.

If I had to choose a weapon it would be a 3.5" 12ga with slugs, though.

[Alaska444]

12 ga with slugs is a very popular answer to the issue, certainly better than any handgun, but if you look at the ballistics, it is below .308 in muzzle energy and far below the 3000 ft-pd mark many use as the minimum.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm

My little Marlin .444 with the extra weight and recoil of a 20 ga puts out substantially more muzzle energy than a 12 ga slugs but it carries with it the recoil of a .375 H&H magnum. Getting to be the old man that I am over 50, I don't like any more aches and pains than I already have especially when I can exceed the 12 ga in delivered power with the kick of only a 20 ga.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=156

12 gauge Magnum shells are even worse. A 2 3/4 inch Magnum shell throwing 1 1/2 ounces of shot at 1260 fps from a 7.5 pound shotgun belts the shooter with 45.9 ft. lbs. of recoil, somewhat more than the recoil of a typical .375 H&H Magnum rifle shooting 300 grain factory loads! And the 3 inch Magnum 12 gauge shell firing 1 7/8 ounces of shot at a MV of 1210 fps in that same 7.5 pound shotgun slams the shooter with over 60 ft. lbs. of recoil energy. This is equivalent to the recoil of a .378 Weatherby Magnum rifle, and exceeds the recoil of a typical .458 Winchester Magnum rifle. This is literally recoil in the elephant gun class, and most shooters would be well advised to avoid such loads.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/12gauge.htm

Once again, 12 ga beats any handgun hands down that any ordinary human could shoot, but it actually is not as good as some believe especially when we look at the recoil factor as well.

[Alaska444]

I lived,hunted and guided in B.C. for several years. My Grizzlty gun, if I was hunting, was a Sako in 375H&H. Brutal but effective. For guiding backup I carried a Rem M660 in 350RM loaded hot. It was for ease of carry and movement.

By the way, Grizzleys cannot usually climb trees due to their claw configuration. The Griz might just knock the tree over if it is not substantial. Blacks can scoot right up faster than the 'lineman for the county'! And both can outrun you easily ... before you can even turn around.

I hear pepper spray is pretty good. Think I'd afix it to the business end of 350/375!

James Gary Shelton, author and bear defense expert recommends both modalities of pepper spray and a defensive firearm in grizzly country. He strongly discourages using the "playing dead" routine as an acceptable survival technique unless you have no other option with a grizzly. He advises to plan ahead with both modalities. He does favour high powered rifles over pepper spray in effectiveness.

http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-J.../dp/0969809913

[2500ak]

Two 12 gauges is a pretty safe bet. When I go hiking or camping, at least two people are equipped to fire slugs. Sometimes a mosin, AR, or AK tags along too. Unless an army of bears arises you're pretty safe.

The answer isn't a single gun its strategy. I don't think there's never been a case where a group of four or more have been mauled by a bear in the history of Alaska. I've heard they have trouble discriminating between individuals in a group, perceiving it has one big, threatening entity.

If a bear does attack one person, its occupied and can be dispatched. I've heard mixed results with the spray. Doesn't do well in rain, doesn't work well if its there's wind, some bears have more of a tolerance for it. I wouldn't bet my life on it, but its worth trying.

[HALIFAX]

How about an AA-12 wich is an automatic 12 guage shotgun. Or a .50 cal straight to the dome.

[Brian Pfleuger]

My little Marlin .444 with the extra weight and recoil of a 20 ga puts out substantially more muzzle energy than a 12 ga slugs but it carries with it the recoil of a .375 H&H magnum. Getting to be the old man that I am over 50, I don't like any more aches and pains than I already have especially when I can exceed the 12 ga in delivered power with the kick of only a 20 ga.

This would be true if you were stuck in the world of 12ga slugs from 50 years ago. Take a look at the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra. 385gr, actual bullet instead of chunk of lead, doing 1900fps. That's 3086 ft/lbs. More importantly, penetration matters in stopping a big dangerous animal and penetration is influenced far more by momentum than by KE. The 12ga slug carries nearly 20% more momentum than does the .444 Marlin (Hornady factory ammo), and the 12ga has a Taylor KO of 56 versus the 39 for the 444.