October 11, 2011, 08:46 PM | #1326 | ||||||||
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October 11, 2011, 08:52 PM | #1327 | |
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I think the issues here shoudl supercede mere politics. An entire agency of the federal government conspired against the American people. Yes - the agency became embroiled in politics - the politics of gun control. But the issue that they did insert themselves in politics is larger than mere politics. It's like if the Republican party used the CIA to dig up dirt on members of the Democratic party. That stuff happens in the Middle East and South America all the time - but for something like F&F to happen in America is unacceptable - it is a game changer. It is groundbreaking in it's nature. That is what I want brought to light - so no other agency ever gets involved in anything like this again, so no other administration - Repiblican, Democrat, Independent - ever attempts to use an an agency (any agency) like this ever again. To me the importance of bringing to light how a bureau conspired against the American people. It transcends the presidential election. |
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October 11, 2011, 09:23 PM | #1328 | |
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I will become very interested when Issa begins pursuing the nature of the DEA and FBI involvement in Fast and Furious. Holder can spin all of the tales he wants about a misguided practice in one ATF office, but getting cooperation from multiple agencies requires instructions from someone in a position of higher authority. |
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October 11, 2011, 09:25 PM | #1329 |
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Just curious - what mechanism is it that will force Holder to return to the committee and testify?
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October 11, 2011, 09:46 PM | #1330 |
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Issa already admitted he doesn't have the power to imprison if they refuse a Congressional subpoena. I have no idea what would happen, but if Holder publically refuses, and gets away with it, Congressional power would take a major kick in the teeth, and Congressional committees like this one might become meaningless circuses. Maybe they can take his funding away from his personal office/staff, etc.
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October 11, 2011, 09:53 PM | #1331 |
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Why can't the House send the Sgt at Arms to arrest holder and throw him in jail for civil contempt until he either complies or Congress recesses? Is it a separation of powers thing?
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October 11, 2011, 10:01 PM | #1332 | |
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October 11, 2011, 10:05 PM | #1333 | |
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I personally know of things that would shock you that happened under multiple administrations that not one word of ever made it into the public eye. This is just one of the rare ones that could not be completely contained. If you want containment it is best to make it a military operation.
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Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it. |
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October 11, 2011, 10:05 PM | #1334 | ||
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October 11, 2011, 10:25 PM | #1335 | |
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In short, if someone does not respond to a Congressional subpoena, they can be subject to proceedings for inherent contempt, criminal (statutory) contempt, or civil contempt. In inherent contempt, the Sergeant-at-Arms does bring the person to Congress, where they are tried and are subject to imprisonment to the end of that term of Congress. In criminal contempt, a statute requires a U.S. Attorney to bring the contempt charge before a grand jury; the law provides for a fine up to $100,000 and up to a year in prison. Civil contempt involves suing the person in court. |
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October 11, 2011, 10:39 PM | #1336 | |
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October 12, 2011, 12:16 AM | #1337 |
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"I think the issues here shoudl supercede mere politics. An entire agency of the federal government conspired against the American people.
Yes - the agency became embroiled in politics - the politics of gun control. But the issue that they did insert themselves in politics is larger than mere politics. It's like if the Republican party used the CIA to dig up dirt on members of the Democratic party. That stuff happens in the Middle East and South America all the time - but for something like F&F to happen in America is unacceptable - it is a game changer. It is groundbreaking in it's nature. That is what I want brought to light - so no other agency ever gets involved in anything like this again, so no other administration - Repiblican, Democrat, Independent - ever attempts to use an an agency (any agency) like this ever again. To me the importance of bringing to light how a bureau conspired against the American people. It transcends the presidential election. " I'd like to point out that the Nixon White House did in fact use the CIA, as well as the IRS, against the American people. The outcry was pretty strong, and ended up in doing a very negative number on the CIA, handicapping its operations to a remarkable degree. While it's none too pretty, this sort of thing [I]does[I] go on in American politics. So does the use of the US military to distract from political problems at home. The Reagan invasion of Grenada was one such. The stupid waste of our soldiers' lives as politicians succumb to the pressures of their jobs is far from pretty. For example, there was absolutely no reason that we left 238 Marines in a nearly indefensible position in Lebanon, where a truck bomber could blow them to bits. There was little enough reason for them to be there in the first place, and leaving them as targets of opportunity was pointless. As the Reagan administration needed a legal way to finance opposition to the Nicaraguan Contras, we kissed Iranian butt to get them to provide financing that the White House was unable to provide legally. Needless to say, it came out, but was spun into the ground. No one was impeached, Ollie North was never charged with treason for giving aid and comfort to our enemies the Iranians, and today only grumpy old men remember any of it. Damn straight it's a game without rules. And it's revolting. And it's business as usual, time after time. I'd like to see the Obama mob busted for this, because aside from everything else, they are not doing good for this country. But please don't think that their actions are any worse than what has been perpetrated by their predecessors, of both parties. |
October 12, 2011, 06:16 AM | #1338 | |
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October 12, 2011, 08:12 AM | #1339 |
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Can we start a separate thread about the authority of Congress to enforce any action against Holder? I think we all understand by page 54 of this thread that csmsss is skeptical that they have any authority; but I don't understand the point of continually rehashing that argument every 3 pages.
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October 12, 2011, 09:52 AM | #1340 |
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Have it Bart with a note in the OP saying that this is an acceptable branch.
Glenn
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October 12, 2011, 11:12 AM | #1341 |
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Well folks, CNN finally has put this on the front page of their web site. The subpoenas have been issued. Time to see how this is gonna play out.
From CNN.com: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/12...obe/?hpt=hp_t2
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October 12, 2011, 12:54 PM | #1342 |
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Jamie Dupree of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution has parsed the subpoena and listed the specific demands made of the Attorney General's office:
http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-wa...ous-subpoenas/ I found the link on the Drudge Report - Matt Drudge is doing a good job aggregating links to sites with news on the subject.
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October 12, 2011, 02:04 PM | #1343 |
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WOW!!! That is lookin' like Issa just grabbed Holder by the short hairs sho-nuff!!!
So much for those all black "redacted" pages sent for "review" before... SQUIRM WEASEL... SQUIRM!!! Brent |
October 12, 2011, 08:28 PM | #1344 |
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That is one mountain of paperwork! Yet it is one very specific mountain.
Reading between the lines here: Issa is looking for specific corroboration of documents he already has. If this is the case, then somebodies goose is cooked. Can you hear it? |
October 12, 2011, 08:42 PM | #1345 | |
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Al, that picture has a real Team America vibe going...
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October 12, 2011, 08:54 PM | #1346 |
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I doubt it would matter if you had a hand written letter from the President admiting that he knew every detail and authorized everything. The senate will never impeach him, no matter what.
On the other hand my holder may be looking at a new (to him) type of federal vacation.. I dont believe for one minute he didnt know the details...
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October 12, 2011, 09:48 PM | #1347 |
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I don't think there's a snowball's chance in Hades that DOJ is going to fully comply with the subpoena. They'll claim it will endanger ongoing criminal cases and investigations and endanger national security. DOJ will say they are complying but then won't. They'll try to turn it into an attack on Issa, et al.
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October 12, 2011, 10:10 PM | #1348 |
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Tom, I've been holding back on posting it (first saw it at CalGuns), but this just seemed the appropriate time.....
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October 12, 2011, 10:28 PM | #1349 | |
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At some point, the Oval Office is going to have to do something.
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October 12, 2011, 10:44 PM | #1350 |
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Al Norris has it right. After some obligatory denials, obfuscations, recalcitrant disclosures, etc., the next sound will be BUMP-BUMP of the New Flyer wheels rolling over our hapless Eric Holder.
After which he'll get a partnership at Patton Boggs, or some other flagship law firm, a few postings to boards of directors of major corporations, maybe a post on MSNBC after a decent interval, and he'll die a very rich man. Well, God promised us His justice wasn't for this world. Say a prayer for him.
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