ATF At It Again

Armed_Chicagoan · December 11, 2013, 09:15 AM

Earlier this year the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel ran a story about an ATF sting in Milwaukee, in which they set up a fake storefront and encouraged low-level criminals to sell them guns and other stolen merchandise for extremely high prices (so high, in fact, that several were purchased from Gander Mountain and still sold for a hefty profit). The operation spurred a string of burglaries in the area, and many of the victims never got their stuff back. The ATF even bought guns stolen from the ATF! In addition, once the operation was over the ATF skipped town, refusing to pay the landlord $15,000 in damage to their property and also leaving behind unpaid utility bills.

"An isolated incident", the ATF assured MJS reporters at the time. Turns out, it wasn't isolated at all. In a followup report the MJS uncovered similar ATF operations across the country:

Quote:

The Journal Sentinel reviewed thousands of pages of court records, police reports and other documents and interviewed dozens of people involved in six ATF operations nationwide that were publicly praised by the ATF in recent years for nabbing violent criminals and making cities safer.

Agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives employed rogue tactics similar to those used in Milwaukee in every operation, from Portland, Ore., to Pensacola, Fla.

Chaz88 · December 11, 2013, 09:22 AM

Wander if Holder read any of the memos on this one?

Al Norris · December 11, 2013, 09:54 AM

The article is very long and quite detailed. I encourage everyone interested to read the article in full, at the source given by the OP.

However, there is some question as to whether the lengthy quote is Fair Use or copyright infringement. Because of that, I have redacted the quote.

Armed_Chicagoan, this is nothing against you. I personally think the small points you quoted were Fair Use. But in this day and age, we have to be careful. I hope you understand the reasons for the redaction.

Gaerek · December 11, 2013, 11:09 AM

I wonder if this will gain any traction in the MSM? I read about this a couple days ago and it seriously sickened me. I have yet to see this on any major news channel. It just amazes me that programs like that can actually exist.

MTT TL · December 11, 2013, 11:38 AM

Quote:

I have yet to see this on any major news channel.

You must be watching different major news channels than me:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...-dozen-cities/

Fox hit it a few times but the media mostly did not cover it all. I wonder when we can start calling Fox MSM? They have been the top rated news network for many years. The simple fact is they are MSM just the opposition view to most everyone else.

Buried local coverage via NBC:

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/...189527551.html

Gaerek · December 11, 2013, 11:42 AM

I watch Fox News every morning...must have missed it. I originally found it on Drudge Report, I think. Either way, it'll take more than Fox News to run with it for this to be taken seriously, unfortunately.

F&F was being reported for weeks before it gained traction...and that was only because the other networks really had no choice but to run it.

MTT TL · December 11, 2013, 11:54 AM

Paying the mentally disabled to get tattoos to prop your op is really classy. I missed that in other articles. Amazing what the state can do when the fourth estate is mostly complicit.

**Tom Servo** · December 11, 2013, 01:07 PM

Quote:

I wonder if this will gain any traction in the MSM?

Actually, I first read of the Milwaukee debacle over a year ago. The media just isn't interested. Most outlets ignored Fast & Furious until it went to congressional hearings (at which point they couldn't ignore it).

Patriot86 · December 11, 2013, 01:26 PM

F&F got as much(not that much) media attention as it did because it could be broken down into a simple story. ATF lets bad guys buy guns in hopes of tracking bad guys, ATF loses track of bad guys and guns, guns used to kill people in Mexico and the US by Cartels.

The case brought to light by the MJS is much more complicated and doesn't fit well into the 10-15 min news segments that dominate the main stream cable media so I doubt it will ever get traction; subject matter aside, for that reason alone.

**Aguila Blanca** · December 11, 2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patriot86

F&F got as much(not that much) media attention as it did because it could be broken down into a simple story. ATF lets bad guys buy guns in hopes of tracking bad guys, ATF loses track of bad guys and guns, guns used to kill people in Mexico and the US by Cartels.

F&F didn't get ant real traction when it was "just" Mexicans being killed with the F&F guns. It suddenly became newsworthy when an American Border Patrol agent was killed, in the U.S., with a firearm that had been "walked" in F&F.

Brian Pfleuger · December 11, 2013, 04:50 PM

This kind of thing is something that chills me to the bone. Not so much that it happens but that it's practically ignored. This should bring an ear shattering outcry from all corners of the nation such that the ATF as a whole would be shaken to it's very foundation. The fact that it doesn't, is terrifying.

JERRYS. · December 11, 2013, 05:05 PM

Brian, who on the right (in the right) will bring this up to national attention? Then, what does anyone expect the Obama regime to do about it?

MTT TL · December 11, 2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

This should bring an ear shattering outcry from all corners of the nation such that the ATF as a whole would be shaken to it's very foundation. The fact that it doesn't, is terrifying.

Well, Fox spent 18 months 24/7 talking about Benghazi until the health care roll out. Now all they talk about is that. There is so much bad misinformation out there that when something juicy comes along it gets ignored.

Brian Pfleuger · December 11, 2013, 05:14 PM

Yeah, but I don't really care how long the news channels talk about it.

That may be the first place we HEAR about it but it shouldn't dictate the response or concern.

This should have elicited a national outcry, marches on Washington, stuff that CAN'T be ignored or at peril of the politicians career.

We get... nothing. Crickets chirping.

**Tom Servo** · December 11, 2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

This should bring an ear shattering outcry from all corners of the nation such that the ATF as a whole would be shaken to it's very foundation.

The problem has a couple of aspects. First off, anyone who criticizes the ATF must be a hard-core gun nut, and the media's been trained to either ignore or ridicule us as such.

The second problem is obstructionism from the administration. They got away with Fast & Furious. Heck, they got the first actual director appointed since 2006. They're going to do their best to keep this out of the limelight.

Congress had their hearings, and it amounted to little. With other pressing issues on the plate (and in the news), they just won't allot time for this.

Wreck-n-Crew · December 11, 2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Well, Fox spentthat. There is so much bad misinformation out there 18 months 24/7 talking about Benghazi until the health care roll out. Now all they talk about is that when something juicy comes along it gets ignored.

They did at least spend a good bit of time on Fast and Furious. Though a little different technically it still the same bad conceptual ideology that drove it IMO.

Actually saw something on fox news about the ATF sting, but not a lot of attention as noted. I wonder if the somewhat pro gun media feel they have too many political fish to fry with the ACA too give it a lot of attention?

I would enjoy a good break from the daily political bash and return to something more related to ATF and their bad policies. Unfortunately I don't get to say what's more news worthy.

BTW any agency as large and funded as the ATF should bury their heads after allowing themselves to become Burglarized and then leaving Agent names and phone numbers behind on documents. Sloppy and irresponsible would be an understatement when describing their performance in this sting.

Daugherty16 · December 12, 2013, 08:18 PM

This is an awful story. Federal agents are not above the law, and in fact are supposed to be held to extremely high professional and ethical standards. This story, which seems to be pretty well documented as true, depicts federal agents and the agency they represent as arrogant and aloof, treating the private leased property as carelessly as if they were squatters and refusing payment after wrecking the place.

I'm not even addressing the operation itself. I've come to expect no less from the ATF after F&F.

JN01 · December 13, 2013, 03:48 PM

I discussed this with a guy at work, ultra-liberal, extreme gun control supporter. Even he was disgusted by the antics of the Keystone Kops.

December 11, 2013, 09:22 AM	#2
Chaz88 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2010 Posts: 1,243	Wander if Holder read any of the memos on this one? __________________ Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it.

December 11, 2013, 11:54 AM	#7
MTT TL Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2009 Location: Quadling Country Posts: 2,780	Paying the mentally disabled to get tattoos to prop your op is really classy. I missed that in other articles. Amazing what the state can do when the fourth estate is mostly complicit. __________________ Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.

December 11, 2013, 01:26 PM	#9
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	F&F got as much(not that much) media attention as it did because it could be broken down into a simple story. ATF lets bad guys buy guns in hopes of tracking bad guys, ATF loses track of bad guys and guns, guns used to kill people in Mexico and the US by Cartels. The case brought to light by the MJS is much more complicated and doesn't fit well into the 10-15 min news segments that dominate the main stream cable media so I doubt it will ever get traction; subject matter aside, for that reason alone. __________________ "....The swords of others will set you your limits".

December 11, 2013, 04:50 PM	#11
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	This kind of thing is something that chills me to the bone. Not so much that it happens but that it's practically ignored. This should bring an ear shattering outcry from all corners of the nation such that the ATF as a whole would be shaken to it's very foundation. The fact that it doesn't, is terrifying. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

December 11, 2013, 05:14 PM	#14
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Yeah, but I don't really care how long the news channels talk about it. That may be the first place we HEAR about it but it shouldn't dictate the response or concern. This should have elicited a national outcry, marches on Washington, stuff that CAN'T be ignored or at peril of the politicians career. We get... nothing. Crickets chirping. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

December 11, 2013, 09:54 AM	#3
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	The article is very long and quite detailed. I encourage everyone interested to read the article in full, at the source given by the OP. However, there is some question as to whether the lengthy quote is Fair Use or copyright infringement. Because of that, I have redacted the quote. Armed_Chicagoan, this is nothing against you. I personally think the small points you quoted were Fair Use. But in this day and age, we have to be careful. I hope you understand the reasons for the redaction.

December 11, 2013, 11:09 AM	#4
Gaerek Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 939	I wonder if this will gain any traction in the MSM? I read about this a couple days ago and it seriously sickened me. I have yet to see this on any major news channel. It just amazes me that programs like that can actually exist.

December 11, 2013, 11:42 AM	#6
Gaerek Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Arizona Posts: 939	I watch Fox News every morning...must have missed it. I originally found it on Drudge Report, I think. Either way, it'll take more than Fox News to run with it for this to be taken seriously, unfortunately. F&F was being reported for weeks before it gained traction...and that was only because the other networks really had no choice but to run it.

December 11, 2013, 05:05 PM	#12
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	Brian, who on the right (in the right) will bring this up to national attention? Then, what does anyone expect the Obama regime to do about it?

December 12, 2013, 08:18 PM	#17
Daugherty16 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Live Free or Die state Posts: 259	Above The Law This is an awful story. Federal agents are not above the law, and in fact are supposed to be held to extremely high professional and ethical standards. This story, which seems to be pretty well documented as true, depicts federal agents and the agency they represent as arrogant and aloof, treating the private leased property as carelessly as if they were squatters and refusing payment after wrecking the place. I'm not even addressing the operation itself. I've come to expect no less from the ATF after F&F. __________________ "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon.

December 13, 2013, 03:48 PM	#18
JN01 Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2005 Location: E Tennessee Posts: 828	I discussed this with a guy at work, ultra-liberal, extreme gun control supporter. Even he was disgusted by the antics of the Keystone Kops.