which shotgun hold the most shells??

454 · October 25, 2001, 03:16 PM

which shotgun holds the most shells. any links would be great!

scouter27 · October 25, 2001, 03:30 PM

Street sweepers hold 12.

lunde · October 25, 2001, 04:04 PM

For conventional shotguns in factory configuration, perhaps the Benelli M1 Practical with 8+1 capacity is the winner.

Sergey Podgirin · October 25, 2001, 04:32 PM

A 20-ga Saiga-20K holds up to 12rds while it is only 24" long. A 12-ga Saiga-12K has almost the same length, but it has maximum mag capacity of 8rds.

I've also heard about a USAS-12 South Korean 12ga autoloader which can use 25rd drums, but I've never seen this awesome thing "alive".

Cavè Canem · October 25, 2001, 05:16 PM

I was gonna say the Mossberg 590 until I saw the other ones.

454 · October 25, 2001, 06:44 PM

thanks for the info.

what do you all think of those short slugs that are maybe 2 inches or so. they let a few extra slugs be held in my 870 [or so i am told] but are for close range only.

PJR · October 25, 2001, 07:42 PM

Choate sells an extension that permits 10 shots total (9 in the tube, 1 in the chamber) for an 870. It requires a 26 barrel. It makes for a pretty heavy and unwieldy package but if you want more firepower this might be the easiest way to go.

C.R.Sam · October 25, 2001, 08:45 PM

Short slugs.

I tried the Aguila Minishell slugs in my Model 20 J.C. Higgens. Feed and function good. Made a six inch hole in a car door with nine fast ones at 50 yds. Holds eight in the tube and one in the chamber. Many pumps and autoloaders won't feed them. I got lucky. I don't agree with the "close range only" thing.

Every shotgun is an entity unto itself. You never know how a load will perform in YOURS untill you have tried it.

Sam

Denny Hansen · October 25, 2001, 09:04 PM

South Africa’s Neostead had a capacity of 14 with 2-3/4-inch shells. Two tubular magazines sit side-by-side on top of the barrel. Magazines can be fed consecutively or concurrently. Mossberg reportedly looked at making here, but then decided not to when the Street Sweepers were declared as NFA weapons due to their drum-fed magazine capacities. Too bad, it was a neat design. On the other hand re-training my brain would have take forever with the Neostead as the action locked when the slide was racked to the rear--exactly opposite of what Americans are used to.

Denny

Benjamin · October 26, 2001, 12:07 AM

Yep, it's the USAS.

I got to play with one, briefly. Fun, but useless. While it is well balanced even with a full drum, it's too long and the muzzle rise is WAY to pronounced to use in a 'social' situation.
But it was FUN.

Sergey Podgirin · October 26, 2001, 02:46 AM

Not concerning high-capacity magazines but something about Neostead-type guns.

I never had a chance to try a Neostead, as far as this gun still seems not to be in production, but I was happy to fire a few hundred rounds with Russian Neostead-type shotgun which is called RMB-93 'Rys' and which uses the same concept.

RMB-93 was created as an entry gun for Russian HRT. It has an overthebarrel tubular 6rd mag, double-action-only trigger group. "Rys" is reloaded in a vis-ver-ca mode with the barrel pupmed "forward-to-rearward". This gun was very good made, but this concept seems to be sick. The barrel is situated lower than in any of shotguns I know, so the muzzle lift is very small, but the recoil is much harder than in any other 12-ga shotgun. I dont know if Neosteed has a DA or SA trigger, but "Rys" has a DAO one and any precise shooting is impossible. Combat uploading the magazine is impossible either, at least in a convenient way I used to upload some rounds in the mag of a "classic" pump. Finally I agree with Denny Hansen: retraining the brain from "rearward-to-forward" to "forward-to- rearward" seems to take forever. Because of all these problems Russian HRT guys don't use RMB-93 and prefer KC-23 4-ga pump-action or Saiga-12K 12-ga semiauto.

Denny Hansen · October 26, 2001, 07:57 PM

Sergey,
Welcome to TFL. Thanks for the update on the Russian RMB-93 'Rys' version of the Neostead.

Denny

Lightsped · October 26, 2001, 10:17 PM

Yep, the Mossberg 590 and 590A1 have 8+1 capacity as well.

MiniZ · October 26, 2001, 11:02 PM

I believe the highest capacity in a readily available and reasonably priced shotgun is the 590/590 A1.

Zane

Coronach · October 26, 2001, 11:14 PM

How spendy are the full-capacity magazines for the Saiga-12 and Saiga-20s? I was under the impression that you were pretty much limited to low-cap mags for them...

Mike

Benjamin · October 27, 2001, 12:10 PM

Coronach - last time I saw them available, the 5 round 12 ga. mags were a hair under $40. Unfortunately, 5 is the cut off point for civillian legal mags in the USA.

Sergey Podgirin · October 27, 2001, 12:54 PM

Well, here in Russia the situation with Saiga mags is a bit different. All Saiga shotguns are shipped with one or two 5-rd mags. Extra mags are available in almost any gunshop. The price of "IzhMash" brand 5-rd mag is about $10, "IzhMash" brand 8-rd (both 20ga and 12ga) - $20, "Prodis" commercial 20ga 10-rd mag - $15. Most "Prodis" mags have actual capacity of 11 or 12 rd, but loading them with more than 10 rounds is illegal for civilians, as using civil weapons with magazines capacity over 10 rounds is prohibited. Though "Prodis" mags have higher capacity I prefer to use "IzhMash" brand 8-rd mags as they are more compact and much more durable.

Best regards,
Sergey Podgirin

dZ · October 27, 2001, 09:38 PM

Wes at soupbowl enterprises is working on a 10 parts american Sagia 12 gauge that will take high caps
http://www.soupbowl.kalashnikov.guns.ru/

here is a link to some Rys images:
http://home.tula.net/tularms/hunt_sgen.htm

Coronach · October 27, 2001, 09:39 PM

There is something vaguely wrong about a Russian citizen being able to own a 10 rnd mag and an American not being able to do so. The world has undergone a strange inversion.

Mike

PS The problem is here, not there. I don't want to come off as trying to offend Mr. Podgirin. Just making that clear!

Sergey Podgirin · October 28, 2001, 03:55 AM

For Coronach.

My humble opinion is that it is not a problem of Russia or US. We also have here pretty much stupid restrictions concerning firearms ownership. For example non of Russian civilians can legally own a handgun. No exceptions. Most people can rent a pistol for practice in the shootingrange. Private security and detective companies can purchase handguns. But civilians can not! Nobody cares that in the same time Russian civilians can legally own, carry and use any subcompact 12-ga semiautos, Streetsweepers, Franchi SPAS 15, AR-15, SVD, SKS, SR-25, almost any rifle or shotgun but not a handgun. Frankly, this pisses me off, but nothing can help. As I've said this is not a problem of a single country, idiot antigun regulations exist anywhere in the World. :-(

Respectfully,
Sergey Podgirin.

October 25, 2001, 03:16 PM	#1
454 Member Join Date: October 16, 2001 Posts: 74	which shotgun hold the most shells?? which shotgun holds the most shells. any links would be great!

October 25, 2001, 03:30 PM	#2
scouter27 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2001 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 420	Street sweepers hold 12. __________________ Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons. S/F Jesse

October 25, 2001, 04:04 PM	#3
lunde Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2000 Location: San Jose, CA, USA, Earth Posts: 450	For conventional shotguns in factory configuration, perhaps the Benelli M1 Practical with 8+1 capacity is the winner. __________________ Ken (NRA/GOA/CRPA/VHA/GSSF/FCSA/USCCA Life Member, SAGA/TNUSA Member)

October 25, 2001, 04:32 PM	#4
Sergey Podgirin Junior Member Join Date: October 24, 2001 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 8	A 20-ga Saiga-20K holds up to 12rds while it is only 24" long. A 12-ga Saiga-12K has almost the same length, but it has maximum mag capacity of 8rds. I've also heard about a USAS-12 South Korean 12ga autoloader which can use 25rd drums, but I've never seen this awesome thing "alive". __________________ "Don't be afraid of a shotgunner" V.I.Lenin

October 25, 2001, 09:04 PM	#9
Denny Hansen Staff Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,422	South Africa’s Neostead had a capacity of 14 with 2-3/4-inch shells. Two tubular magazines sit side-by-side on top of the barrel. Magazines can be fed consecutively or concurrently. Mossberg reportedly looked at making here, but then decided not to when the Street Sweepers were declared as NFA weapons due to their drum-fed magazine capacities. Too bad, it was a neat design. On the other hand re-training my brain would have take forever with the Neostead as the action locked when the slide was racked to the rear--exactly opposite of what Americans are used to. Denny __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

October 25, 2001, 05:16 PM	#5
Cavè Canem Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2001 Location: NW VA Posts: 228	I was gonna say the Mossberg 590 until I saw the other ones.

October 25, 2001, 06:44 PM	#6
454 Member Join Date: October 16, 2001 Posts: 74	thanks for the info. what do you all think of those short slugs that are maybe 2 inches or so. they let a few extra slugs be held in my 870 [or so i am told] but are for close range only.

October 25, 2001, 07:42 PM	#7
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Choate sells an extension that permits 10 shots total (9 in the tube, 1 in the chamber) for an 870. It requires a 26 barrel. It makes for a pretty heavy and unwieldy package but if you want more firepower this might be the easiest way to go.

October 25, 2001, 08:45 PM	#8
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Short slugs. I tried the Aguila Minishell slugs in my Model 20 J.C. Higgens. Feed and function good. Made a six inch hole in a car door with nine fast ones at 50 yds. Holds eight in the tube and one in the chamber. Many pumps and autoloaders won't feed them. I got lucky. I don't agree with the "close range only" thing. Every shotgun is an entity unto itself. You never know how a load will perform in YOURS untill you have tried it. Sam

October 26, 2001, 12:07 AM	#10
Benjamin Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 1999 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 358	Yep, it's the USAS. I got to play with one, briefly. Fun, but useless. While it is well balanced even with a full drum, it's too long and the muzzle rise is WAY to pronounced to use in a 'social' situation. But it was FUN.

October 26, 2001, 02:46 AM	#11
Sergey Podgirin Junior Member Join Date: October 24, 2001 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 8	Not concerning high-capacity magazines but something about Neostead-type guns. I never had a chance to try a Neostead, as far as this gun still seems not to be in production, but I was happy to fire a few hundred rounds with Russian Neostead-type shotgun which is called RMB-93 'Rys' and which uses the same concept. RMB-93 was created as an entry gun for Russian HRT. It has an overthebarrel tubular 6rd mag, double-action-only trigger group. "Rys" is reloaded in a vis-ver-ca mode with the barrel pupmed "forward-to-rearward". This gun was very good made, but this concept seems to be sick. The barrel is situated lower than in any of shotguns I know, so the muzzle lift is very small, but the recoil is much harder than in any other 12-ga shotgun. I dont know if Neosteed has a DA or SA trigger, but "Rys" has a DAO one and any precise shooting is impossible. Combat uploading the magazine is impossible either, at least in a convenient way I used to upload some rounds in the mag of a "classic" pump. Finally I agree with Denny Hansen: retraining the brain from "rearward-to-forward" to "forward-to- rearward" seems to take forever. Because of all these problems Russian HRT guys don't use RMB-93 and prefer KC-23 4-ga pump-action or Saiga-12K 12-ga semiauto. __________________ "Don't be afraid of a shotgunner" V.I.Lenin

October 26, 2001, 07:57 PM	#12
Denny Hansen Staff Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,422	Sergey, Welcome to TFL. Thanks for the update on the Russian RMB-93 'Rys' version of the Neostead. Denny __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

October 26, 2001, 10:17 PM	#13
Lightsped Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2000 Location: Kennesaw/Marietta, Georgia Posts: 810	Yep, the Mossberg 590 and 590A1 have 8+1 capacity as well.

October 26, 2001, 11:02 PM	#14
MiniZ Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2001 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 517	I believe the highest capacity in a readily available and reasonably priced shotgun is the 590/590 A1. Zane __________________ Seven- Six- Two Millimeter....FULL METAL JACKET!!!

October 26, 2001, 11:14 PM	#15
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Saigas How spendy are the full-capacity magazines for the Saiga-12 and Saiga-20s? I was under the impression that you were pretty much limited to low-cap mags for them... Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

October 27, 2001, 12:10 PM	#16
Benjamin Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 1999 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 358	Coronach - last time I saw them available, the 5 round 12 ga. mags were a hair under $40. Unfortunately, 5 is the cut off point for civillian legal mags in the USA.

October 27, 2001, 12:54 PM	#17
Sergey Podgirin Junior Member Join Date: October 24, 2001 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 8	Saiga mags Well, here in Russia the situation with Saiga mags is a bit different. All Saiga shotguns are shipped with one or two 5-rd mags. Extra mags are available in almost any gunshop. The price of "IzhMash" brand 5-rd mag is about $10, "IzhMash" brand 8-rd (both 20ga and 12ga) - $20, "Prodis" commercial 20ga 10-rd mag - $15. Most "Prodis" mags have actual capacity of 11 or 12 rd, but loading them with more than 10 rounds is illegal for civilians, as using civil weapons with magazines capacity over 10 rounds is prohibited. Though "Prodis" mags have higher capacity I prefer to use "IzhMash" brand 8-rd mags as they are more compact and much more durable. Best regards, Sergey Podgirin __________________ "Don't be afraid of a shotgunner" V.I.Lenin

October 27, 2001, 09:38 PM	#18
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	Wes at soupbowl enterprises is working on a 10 parts american Sagia 12 gauge that will take high caps http://www.soupbowl.kalashnikov.guns.ru/ here is a link to some Rys images: http://home.tula.net/tularms/hunt_sgen.htm __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters

October 27, 2001, 09:39 PM	#19
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	There is something vaguely wrong about a Russian citizen being able to own a 10 rnd mag and an American not being able to do so. The world has undergone a strange inversion. Mike PS The problem is here, not there. I don't want to come off as trying to offend Mr. Podgirin. Just making that clear! __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

October 28, 2001, 03:55 AM	#20
Sergey Podgirin Junior Member Join Date: October 24, 2001 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 8	For Coronach. My humble opinion is that it is not a problem of Russia or US. We also have here pretty much stupid restrictions concerning firearms ownership. For example non of Russian civilians can legally own a handgun. No exceptions. Most people can rent a pistol for practice in the shootingrange. Private security and detective companies can purchase handguns. But civilians can not! Nobody cares that in the same time Russian civilians can legally own, carry and use any subcompact 12-ga semiautos, Streetsweepers, Franchi SPAS 15, AR-15, SVD, SKS, SR-25, almost any rifle or shotgun but not a handgun. Frankly, this pisses me off, but nothing can help. As I've said this is not a problem of a single country, idiot antigun regulations exist anywhere in the World. :-( Respectfully, Sergey Podgirin. __________________ "Don't be afraid of a shotgunner" V.I.Lenin