My first reloading order - nearly fell out of my chair

GJJ · April 20, 2007, 02:46 PM

So, I am thinking I might like to reload. I have read much of the ABCs of reloading and even bought a Classic Lee kit.

I put together an order on the Midway USA site for primers, bullets, powder. At checkout, they list an additional $9.99 shipping fee on top of the UPS ground charges. AND, the list a $40 hazmat fee for the powder.

1. Are these gov't regulations or just a way to discourage/gouge reloaders?
2. Do any of these catalog houses actually sell powder with these prices?

Of course, I didn't place the order.

Dave

hodaka · April 20, 2007, 02:52 PM

Yes, the powder and primers are best bought locally, or buy a WHOLE lot of each. There is a hazmat shipping fee for both primers and powder, and they are not shipped together.

Abstract · April 20, 2007, 03:01 PM

The problem with Midway is that they ship their primers and powder from different locations. Check out Powder Valley. They're cheaper than Midway on both powder and primers, and they'll mix powder and primers in the same shipment, generating only one $20 Hazmat fee.

**Mike Irwin** · April 20, 2007, 03:13 PM

I like Midway, but I don't like their powder/primer prices, and I don't much care for how they package those items.

That's why I, too, buy from Powder Valley.

A couple of years ago I put together a large group buy on powder.

I'm good for the next probably 10 years.

benedict1 · April 20, 2007, 03:32 PM

They will combine Hazmat for primers and powder. Some dealers won't.

Castaway · April 20, 2007, 04:17 PM

Ain't nuthin' free. To balance out the hazmat charge, I get a buddy to combine an order. Buying in bulk or going to a dealer who also has the benefit of bulk buying can mitigate the charge. Also, look at buying bulk powder. You can get an 8 lb. jug for the same hazmat charge and additionally get a lower price per pound rate.

K96771 · April 20, 2007, 04:17 PM

See if there are any gun shows around your area. I go over to Philadelphia a few times a year just to stock up on the powder and primers, and pick up a little here and there when the gun shops have them in stock (which isn't a problem around here). Although I too like Midway, I never get my P & P from them due to the prohibitive shipping and hazmat fees.

williamd · April 20, 2007, 06:24 PM

Our local club puts together group buys. Works pretty well.

mrawesome22 · April 20, 2007, 06:29 PM

Buy powder and primers at a store. Even if you have to drive 2 hours, it will be worth it to drive rather than pay the shipping fees. My local powder supplier has lower prices than internet prices, and the only fee I have to pay is sales tax.

BigJimP · April 20, 2007, 06:36 PM

Try to buy everything from your local gun club - or a good retail outlet / gun shop. Places like Sportsman's Warehouse are reasonably competitve - but you also need to settle on your recipe and decide which components you really like the best before you lay in too much inventory.

Buying powder in 8lb kegs , primers in case lots, etc will save you a lot of money usually.

CrustyFN · April 20, 2007, 07:08 PM

If you are going to buy powder and primers on the internet then Powder Valley is the best IMO.
Rusty

Abstract · April 20, 2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Buy powder and primers at a store. Even if you have to drive 2 hours, it will be worth it to drive rather than pay the shipping fees. My local powder supplier has lower prices than internet prices, and the only fee I have to pay is sales tax.

Unfortunately, most of us aren't two hours away from your local powder supplier. I've never seen better prices within 6 hours of my house than I can get on the internet.

What does it cost for you to drive two hours? @ around $.45-$.50 per mile, sounds like false economy to me.

snuffy · April 20, 2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

What does it cost for you to drive two hours? @ around $.45-$50 per mile, sounds like false economy to me.

What are you driving that costs .50 cents a a mile?? My SUV runs for 12.8 cents a mile at current gas prices,($2.83/gal). BUT, 6 hours at an average of 50 miles/hr. = 300 miles. In my car, that's $38.40! Pay the 20$ hazmat!

mrawesome22 · April 20, 2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Unfortunately, most of us aren't two hours away from your local powder supplier. I've never seen better prices within 6 hours of my house than I can get on the internet.

Wow, I can get powder from 3 different places all within a 1 and 1/2 hours drive from where I live. And I live in the middle of nowhere LOL.

dgc940 · April 21, 2007, 12:01 AM

I'll second that MR22!
I live in a very small town and theres two places to buy powder?

chilie · April 21, 2007, 01:22 AM

I have several places around me also but they don't stock much in anything bigger than a lib. so I usually do an order w/ Graf's they combine p & p up to 40 libs. and also have a decent C&R discount. I just devied out the cost of the powder a lib and primers a 1000 divided by the hazmat fee and I see if it's a good deal or not. the more you bye the cheaper that hazmat becomes.

CrustyFN · April 21, 2007, 05:35 AM

chilie, does Graf's ship powder and primers together and only charge one hazmat fee? Most places won't do that. I know Graf's has free shipping also.
Rusty

**44 AMP** · April 21, 2007, 02:57 PM

Is not a Govt. regulation. It is a charge levied by the shipper. Years ago, with the same Govt. regs in place, the shippers did not charge a Hazmat fee. Govt. Hazmat regs cover the packaging and the storage and disposal of Hazardous Material. All the shipper has to do is box it up (for your specific order) and put a couple of (correctly filled out) labels on the package. They also have to do a little bit of planning when it comes to loading the truck, to prevent certain clases of hazardous materials being within "x" number of feet of other classes of Hazmat. This used to be done as part of the shipping and handling fee. Then they discovered that they could get away with charging a seperate (and often gouging) fee because it was "Hazardous". We are stuck paying it, because really, where else are you going to go? I think UPS was the first shipper to add a Hazmat fee.

Smokless powder is DOT classified as a flammable solid, and is no more hazardous than thousands of other common materials. Primers are a class C explosive (like fireworks), and there are some regs governing what it can be shipped with, and spacing requirements involving flamable materials.

Best advice is to buy local (if practical), or order in really large amounts, so you only pay once for the Hazmat fee.

CrustyFN · April 21, 2007, 08:06 PM

44 AMP,
Thanks, good explanation. I can buy powder local at a fairly good price. The local primers are high and I think I can do better on line even with hazmat. I am trying to get in with two other guys on a group buy for 60,000 primers.
Rusty

chilie · April 22, 2007, 08:03 AM

crusty They do combine primers and powder.

"Q: What is your hazardous material fee?

A: A hazardous materials fee (haz mat fee) of $20 is charged to any ground order containing powder, primers, fuse or gun cleaning liquids over 1 quart. This fee is per package with a max gross weight of 70 lbs/package. Smokeless powder and primers can be combined (up to 50 lbs) under 1 haz mat fee. Black powder requires a separate fee and cannot be combined with any other hazardous materials. Hazardous Materials require an adult signature for delivery. ID may be required at delivery for proof of age. See Terms and Conditions for more details."

CrustyFN · April 22, 2007, 05:38 PM

Thanks chilie. I will have to check Graf's out and see what kind of price I can get with the C&R discount. I also ran into someone at the IDPA match today that sells cast bullets local. I am thinking about trying some for the 9mm and cut cost down even more.
Rusty

mattgreennra · April 23, 2007, 01:09 AM

Hazmat should not be $20 for primers and powder. Even a store with good prices can't beat online prices and 8lb powder kegs. I recomend buying online, but you are gonna have to spend over $300-400 to break the hazmat/store price difference. After that you save money.

45auto45 · April 24, 2007, 02:50 AM

Gun Shows are a good place for primers. Usually the lager ammo dealers sell them. They buy in such bulk they can sell cheaper. Usually, the Hazmat fee is good up to about 40 pounds an order, so bulk is the way to buy. I just bought primers, $18.95/K for WSPM, case of WSP for $16.95K and WLP $17.95K

brickeyee · April 24, 2007, 03:06 PM

"Years ago, with the same Govt. regs in place, the shippers did not charge a Hazmat fee. "

Not really.
DOT added a bunch of rules governing how hazmat must be documented.
Every driver needs to have a record of all the hazmat on the vehicle.
Thus was born the 5 copy little hazmat form slapped on the package.
At each place the box is put on another conveyance, a driver has to peel off and keep one of those little labels.
That way if there is an accidnet he has an immediate record of anything on the truck that is hazmat.

GLK · April 25, 2007, 01:22 PM

Although not seen nearly as often now days as in the past, buy primed brass when ever possible. I bought 10,000 pieces of primed 10MMAuto 10 years or so ago and it was at that time cheaper to buy the primed brass than the two separately and there was no hazmat fee.

April 20, 2007, 02:46 PM	#1
GJJ Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2006 Posts: 164	My first reloading order - nearly fell out of my chair So, I am thinking I might like to reload. I have read much of the ABCs of reloading and even bought a Classic Lee kit. I put together an order on the Midway USA site for primers, bullets, powder. At checkout, they list an additional $9.99 shipping fee on top of the UPS ground charges. AND, the list a $40 hazmat fee for the powder. 1. Are these gov't regulations or just a way to discourage/gouge reloaders? 2. Do any of these catalog houses actually sell powder with these prices? Of course, I didn't place the order. Dave

April 20, 2007, 03:13 PM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	I like Midway, but I don't like their powder/primer prices, and I don't much care for how they package those items. That's why I, too, buy from Powder Valley. A couple of years ago I put together a large group buy on powder. I'm good for the next probably 10 years. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

April 20, 2007, 03:32 PM	#5
benedict1 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 245	+1 Powder Valley They will combine Hazmat for primers and powder. Some dealers won't.

April 20, 2007, 04:17 PM	#7
K96771 Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2006 Location: NJ Pinelands Posts: 120	See if there are any gun shows around your area. I go over to Philadelphia a few times a year just to stock up on the powder and primers, and pick up a little here and there when the gun shops have them in stock (which isn't a problem around here). Although I too like Midway, I never get my P & P from them due to the prohibitive shipping and hazmat fees. __________________ Tom

April 20, 2007, 06:24 PM	#8
williamd Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: SoCal Posts: 801	Our local club puts together group buys. Works pretty well. __________________ "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns!" Unfortunately, we may be moving in that direction. NRA Benefactor, Conservative!, VN '64-'65. Never sell a gun or a car ... and retire rich!

April 20, 2007, 02:52 PM	#2
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Yes, the powder and primers are best bought locally, or buy a WHOLE lot of each. There is a hazmat shipping fee for both primers and powder, and they are not shipped together.

April 20, 2007, 03:01 PM	#3
Abstract Junior member Join Date: December 25, 2006 Posts: 443	The problem with Midway is that they ship their primers and powder from different locations. Check out Powder Valley. They're cheaper than Midway on both powder and primers, and they'll mix powder and primers in the same shipment, generating only one $20 Hazmat fee.

April 20, 2007, 04:17 PM	#6
Castaway Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Dade City, FL Posts: 90	Ain't nuthin' free. To balance out the hazmat charge, I get a buddy to combine an order. Buying in bulk or going to a dealer who also has the benefit of bulk buying can mitigate the charge. Also, look at buying bulk powder. You can get an 8 lb. jug for the same hazmat charge and additionally get a lower price per pound rate.

April 20, 2007, 06:29 PM	#9
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Buy powder and primers at a store. Even if you have to drive 2 hours, it will be worth it to drive rather than pay the shipping fees. My local powder supplier has lower prices than internet prices, and the only fee I have to pay is sales tax.

April 20, 2007, 06:36 PM	#10
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Try to buy everything from your local gun club - or a good retail outlet / gun shop. Places like Sportsman's Warehouse are reasonably competitve - but you also need to settle on your recipe and decide which components you really like the best before you lay in too much inventory. Buying powder in 8lb kegs , primers in case lots, etc will save you a lot of money usually.

April 20, 2007, 07:08 PM	#11
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	If you are going to buy powder and primers on the internet then Powder Valley is the best IMO. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

April 21, 2007, 12:01 AM	#15
dgc940 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Graham Texas Posts: 258	I'll second that MR22! I live in a very small town and theres two places to buy powder? __________________ Some people say what they think! Some say what they know! Then there's those that think they know what they are saying!

April 21, 2007, 01:22 AM	#16
chilie Junior Member Join Date: April 9, 2007 Posts: 6	I have several places around me also but they don't stock much in anything bigger than a lib. so I usually do an order w/ Graf's they combine p & p up to 40 libs. and also have a decent C&R discount. I just devied out the cost of the powder a lib and primers a 1000 divided by the hazmat fee and I see if it's a good deal or not. the more you bye the cheaper that hazmat becomes.

April 21, 2007, 05:35 AM	#17
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	chilie, does Graf's ship powder and primers together and only charge one hazmat fee? Most places won't do that. I know Graf's has free shipping also. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

April 21, 2007, 02:57 PM	#18
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Hazmat fee Is not a Govt. regulation. It is a charge levied by the shipper. Years ago, with the same Govt. regs in place, the shippers did not charge a Hazmat fee. Govt. Hazmat regs cover the packaging and the storage and disposal of Hazardous Material. All the shipper has to do is box it up (for your specific order) and put a couple of (correctly filled out) labels on the package. They also have to do a little bit of planning when it comes to loading the truck, to prevent certain clases of hazardous materials being within "x" number of feet of other classes of Hazmat. This used to be done as part of the shipping and handling fee. Then they discovered that they could get away with charging a seperate (and often gouging) fee because it was "Hazardous". We are stuck paying it, because really, where else are you going to go? I think UPS was the first shipper to add a Hazmat fee. Smokless powder is DOT classified as a flammable solid, and is no more hazardous than thousands of other common materials. Primers are a class C explosive (like fireworks), and there are some regs governing what it can be shipped with, and spacing requirements involving flamable materials. Best advice is to buy local (if practical), or order in really large amounts, so you only pay once for the Hazmat fee. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 21, 2007, 08:06 PM	#19
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	44 AMP, Thanks, good explanation. I can buy powder local at a fairly good price. The local primers are high and I think I can do better on line even with hazmat. I am trying to get in with two other guys on a group buy for 60,000 primers. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

April 22, 2007, 08:03 AM	#20
chilie Junior Member Join Date: April 9, 2007 Posts: 6	crusty They do combine primers and powder. "Q: What is your hazardous material fee? A: A hazardous materials fee (haz mat fee) of $20 is charged to any ground order containing powder, primers, fuse or gun cleaning liquids over 1 quart. This fee is per package with a max gross weight of 70 lbs/package. Smokeless powder and primers can be combined (up to 50 lbs) under 1 haz mat fee. Black powder requires a separate fee and cannot be combined with any other hazardous materials. Hazardous Materials require an adult signature for delivery. ID may be required at delivery for proof of age. See Terms and Conditions for more details."

April 22, 2007, 05:38 PM	#21
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	Thanks chilie. I will have to check Graf's out and see what kind of price I can get with the C&R discount. I also ran into someone at the IDPA match today that sells cast bullets local. I am thinking about trying some for the 9mm and cut cost down even more. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

April 23, 2007, 01:09 AM	#22
mattgreennra Member Join Date: April 15, 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 93	Hazmat should not be $20 for primers and powder. Even a store with good prices can't beat online prices and 8lb powder kegs. I recomend buying online, but you are gonna have to spend over $300-400 to break the hazmat/store price difference. After that you save money.

April 24, 2007, 02:50 AM	#23
45auto45 Member Join Date: April 1, 2007 Location: Girly Man!!!! Posts: 38	Gun Shows are a good place for primers. Usually the lager ammo dealers sell them. They buy in such bulk they can sell cheaper. Usually, the Hazmat fee is good up to about 40 pounds an order, so bulk is the way to buy. I just bought primers, $18.95/K for WSPM, case of WSP for $16.95K and WLP $17.95K __________________ The road to hell is paved with Democraps!

April 24, 2007, 03:06 PM	#24
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	"Years ago, with the same Govt. regs in place, the shippers did not charge a Hazmat fee. " Not really. DOT added a bunch of rules governing how hazmat must be documented. Every driver needs to have a record of all the hazmat on the vehicle. Thus was born the 5 copy little hazmat form slapped on the package. At each place the box is put on another conveyance, a driver has to peel off and keep one of those little labels. That way if there is an accidnet he has an immediate record of anything on the truck that is hazmat.

April 25, 2007, 01:22 PM	#25
GLK Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2000 Location: Brandon FL USA Posts: 527	Although not seen nearly as often now days as in the past, buy primed brass when ever possible. I bought 10,000 pieces of primed 10MMAuto 10 years or so ago and it was at that time cheaper to buy the primed brass than the two separately and there was no hazmat fee.