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Old February 22, 2014, 04:17 PM   #1
fallingrock71
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New Kahr CM9 shooting low.

Please pardon the laziness. I'm in no mood for searching.

Took my brand new CM9 to the range last week and ran about 150rds through it.

The good...Functioned absolutely flawlessly with wwb, umc, herters, critical duty +p, monarch +p, and some Underwood. I liked the trigger. Not as good as my SR9c, but very good. Recoil wasn't bad at all. It didn't hurt any part of my big ole hands like some tiny little pistols do. Follow up shots were very quick. It shot some pretty good groups.

The bad and frustrating...It shoots about 6 inches low at 25 feet. I found that at that distance if I aligned the rear sight on the front of the slide(below the front sight) it was pretty much to point of aim. I finally put it away because it was bugging me a LOT more than it should have. That and I was having entirely too much fun with my other guns.

Again, sorry for the laziness and probably dumb question but how to I fix it? I'd really like this one if it would just put them dang holes in the target where I put the sights ya know.
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Old February 22, 2014, 04:50 PM   #2
TacticalDefense1911
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Call the manufacturer.
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Old February 22, 2014, 05:13 PM   #3
chris in va
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Did you shoot it off a rest to eliminate the possibility it's the gun and not you getting used to a DA trigger?
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Old February 22, 2014, 05:50 PM   #4
Seven High
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What weight of bullet were you shooting? I suggest that you try a different weight.
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Old February 22, 2014, 06:10 PM   #5
fallingrock71
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Just that day I shot 115, 124, 135 and 147 grain bullets. Not a huge difference between them.
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Old February 22, 2014, 11:26 PM   #6
Fishbed77
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It's almost certainly you and not the gun.

I have a CM9 as well, and on the first few outings I consistently shot low as well (like you - about 6" low at 10 yards). The CM9 is such a small gun with such a long (but very smooth) double action trigger, that it is very easy to "rock" the gun down as you squeeze the trigger.

My suggestion. Get some snap caps and do a lot of dry-fire practice. You MUST focus on the front sight (and keeping it on target) through the entire trigger squeeze. If you do this, your shooting will improve.
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Old February 24, 2014, 02:27 AM   #7
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbed77
It's almost certainly you and not the gun.
I agree. The sights on your Kahr are designed and aligned in the factory to be very close to dead center at standard pistol ranges. If your gun is shooting as far as six inches low at only 25 feet there are two possibilities:

1) There's something very wrong with your gun and it needs to be sent back to the manufacturer.

2) The problem is you.

I worked at an LGS/range/training facility for a few years, and I'd say that 95% of the time when a customer had this issue the problem was them and not the gun. Almost daily one of us had to go over to the range to shoot the customer's gun to prove to them the problem wasn't the gun.

Have an experienced shooter shoot the gun, or shoot it off a rest. I'll bet you just need to get used to the long DAO trigger.
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Old February 24, 2014, 02:49 AM   #8
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My Kahr CW9 shoots low. But not that low. With the sights lined up, it shoots an inch or two below point of aim with a 115g bullet. With a 147, it shoots just about point of aim - maybe not quite.

At any rate, I'm used to it. And it gobbles up everything I feed it - everything.
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Old February 24, 2014, 05:12 AM   #9
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Hmmm...I certainly don't think it is me THIS time. Of course that's probably what I said the last time it was me! I'm not ready to give up on it and I'm not ready to get Kahr on the phone. Heck it isn't even broken in yet. Looks like a good reason to sneak off to the range. Might have to let someone else try it out.

Maybe another dumb question but...Seeing as how I was able to put all shots in or very near the bull when I leveled the rear sight on the front of the slide, wouldn't that rule me out as the problem?
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Old February 24, 2014, 08:17 AM   #10
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I have a Kahr CW9 and it took me several trips to the range before I got used to it. I found myself overcompensating for the anticipated recoil and I was jerking the muzzle down at the last second. I'd been used to shooting bigger, heavier guns, and it took me a long time to get this one dialed in.

My first time at a 25 yard target, half of the shots weren't even on the paper. It was crazy.

All is good now.
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Old February 24, 2014, 08:26 AM   #11
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I have found that with mine if I line the sights up so I only see one (like you would think) it shoots low, but as previously stated not that low. I found that I need to place the front dot slightly on top of the rear, but not completely. I'd say just play until you find the sweet spot.

For consideration:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hand...2F%3B662%3B844
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Old February 24, 2014, 11:18 AM   #12
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Hey Fallingrock, I hate to jump on the "its you" bandwagon, but I would lean that way due to my experiences. I also have a CM9, though I typically shoot other guns more often. I find that almost every time I get the gun out to shoot after using something else for a while, I am running 6-8" low at 7-10yds.

Mine has a CT laser, but I normally put a piece of electrical tape over it for range use, as I dont want to become dependent. Last time I ran a magazine through it and didnt have anything on paper, all was below my target (7x7 paper, 6" circle). I finally started aiming at different points to determine where I was at (didnt have any other targets that day...) and figured out how low I was shooting, then used the laser to verify it was me, not the gun.

With dry fire and the laser, I was able to determine it really was just me coming from SA and striker fired guns.


When you say you were able to get good hits when "leveling the rear sight to the front of the slide" do you mean you were using the silver of the slide just in front of the front sight post, or something else?
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Old February 24, 2014, 12:51 PM   #13
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Is the group you get tight but 6" low?
how big is the average group?
Different ammo brands/weights will have different POI.
Shoot the pistol rested? Rest will help eliminate some shooter issues if they exist.
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Old February 24, 2014, 01:15 PM   #14
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My CM9 also was shooting low, but not 6" @ 25'. I don't like the post and dot sight at all. Might be part of the problem. I filled the little cuts on each side of the rear sight with white sight paint, aim center target, not 6 O'Clock, and have brought my groups up to center @ 10 yards with my carry choice, Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 124 gr. +P. WWB is very close as well.
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Old February 24, 2014, 01:29 PM   #15
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Does Kahr offer replacement fronts of different heights?
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Old February 24, 2014, 01:35 PM   #16
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Yeah, why not make changes in the sights to suit yourself.
Higher rear or lower front or some combination.
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Old February 24, 2014, 01:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingrock71
Seeing as how I was able to put all shots in or very near the bull when I leveled the rear sight on the front of the slide, wouldn't that rule me out as the problem?
Not at all. Often issues with trigger control are very consistent. I cannot tell you how often I've seen people shooting nice, consistent groups off-center who blamed the gun. Then one of us shot it, and the gun was dead on.

Right-handers tend to shoot low and to the left most often, and left-handers tend to shoot low and to the right most often, but just shooting low is fairly common too. My guess is you're not used to the long trigger press of the Kahr; the trigger on an SR9 is a lot shorter.

It's a simple solution to figure out what's going on here: just shoot the gun from a bench. Then have someone else shoot it. I wouldn't do anything else until you tried both of those first.
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Old February 24, 2014, 03:56 PM   #18
Fishbed77
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Quote:
Maybe another dumb question but...Seeing as how I was able to put all shots in or very near the bull when I leveled the rear sight on the front of the slide, wouldn't that rule me out as the problem?
No. You are merely compensating by aiming higher. You still may not be addressing the root issue - that the sights are adjusted for point-of-impact, but you are rocking the gun downward as you squeeze the trigger.

That said, the only way to know for sure is to:

A) Practice (either dry-fire or live fire) to see if your groups move toward the center of the target.

B) Fire the pistol from a fixed rest to see if there is indeed a problem with the pistol or its sights.
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Old February 24, 2014, 08:20 PM   #19
fallingrock71
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Thanks for the input guys. Just for the record, I'm perfectly fine with it being me and not the gun. In fact I'd kinda prefer it. I've always had good luck with guns and never once had to send one back. Don't really want the hassle.

Also for the record. I really like the Kahr trigger. Looks like I just may need more time with it. I definitely want more time with it
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Old February 24, 2014, 09:08 PM   #20
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Thought I might also mention another surprise about this particular range trip. I dunno maybe someone might see a pattern or something.

The CM9 wasn't the only newly acquired pistol that made the trip. I recently picked up a older used Charter Arms Off Duty in .38 just because the price was right and it was in good shape. I honestly don't even remember the last time I had fired a .38 snubbie before this trip. Anyways, I ended up really liking it. I put a little over a hundred rounds through it. About a third of it +p.

I only mention all of this because my best groups with the Charter were actually in DA and not SA. The difference wasn't huge mind you but definitely noticeable. Say baseball sized vs. softball sized groups. I really didn't expect that at all. The trigger on the Charter isn't bad at all but in DA it is absolutely heavier than the CM9.

Thinking about all this REALLY has me looking forward to this weekends trip to the range. Oughta be interesting. And with any luck educational. Good stuff.
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Old February 24, 2014, 09:16 PM   #21
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Interesting. My guess is you're anticipating the shot; the SA trigger press is very short and predictable so you know when it's going to fire and you flinch a tiny bit just before it fires. But when you shoot it DA it's such a long and heavy trigger press that you never know when it's going to actually fire and therefore you don't flinch.
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Old February 24, 2014, 10:18 PM   #22
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So, just aim for the perp's Adams apple and you'll hit him center mass.
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Old February 25, 2014, 06:22 AM   #23
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Go to the Kahr forum and give them a holler.
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