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August 8, 2017, 08:41 AM | #1 |
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Barreled Upper, ABSOLUTE Cheapest find
I want a .22 upper for my ar15 and I've decided that I'm actually going to get a cmmg conversion kit and a separate upper that it will live in all the time. To make it cost effective, I'm looking for the absolute cheapest barreled upper out there, available on the web, that can be shipped to my door. Unfortunately that means no Palmetto State Armory since I live in MA, and they refuse to ship AR stuff here despite its legality.
In sum I'm looking for something without a bcg/ch in the under 180$ shipped range. CHEAPER is better, doesn't have to be pretty or have any features really, just able to accept a cmmg kit. Thanks for any leads! |
August 8, 2017, 01:26 PM | #2 |
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Save up a little more money (~$150?) and get a real dedicated .22LR upper (with a properly-sized barrel) rather than the kludge of sticking a conversion in an .223/5.56mm barrelled upper . Reliability and especially accuracy will be much better and you will be much happier in the end. Also be sure to use quality mags like those from Black Dog Machine.
I have a CMMG Sierra dedicated .22LR upper (on a PSA lower) and it is probably the most accurate and reliable bone-stock .22LR semi-auto I own. The entire .22LR upper (with proper barrel, bolt & charging handle) was about $360 a few years ago. I believe they run about $100 or so more than that today, but are well worth the price. |
August 8, 2017, 01:49 PM | #3 |
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Agree, get a dedicated .22 upper. There are several out that are good and you will be in it for a lot less than an upper and a conversion. Chiappas are just over $300, DPMS just under $400, CMMG just over $400 and Tactical Solutions are $500+.
MidwayUSA has the TS SBX upper on sale for $519...smokin deal, suppressor ready. |
August 8, 2017, 02:56 PM | #4 |
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If you're dead set on a conversion upper then go to Anderson, order the cheap barrel of your choice, go to AeroPrecision and get a blemished reciever,
Get whatever cheap furniture from anywhere. Primary Arms probably had some pretty cheap assembled uppers |
August 8, 2017, 06:07 PM | #5 |
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Someone will a very good reason as to why, but for me? A Walther/HK or a Walther/Colt costs less...but crud. You already have the conversion kit don't you?
No help here. Sorry. |
August 9, 2017, 06:45 AM | #6 | |||
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When I researched this, I looked for problems, not success stories and magazine dump videos. If you are researching this project, take some time to read the tales of woe associated with getting a .223 adapter and closed, non-button magazines to load and feed. Some of these are so prone to malfunction that people give up on making them work entirely. Other than a S&W 15-22, I don't see any 22lr AR you will want to own coming in at less than a centerfire AR. Mine went as follows: $160 + s/h CMMG BCG and collar from Right to bear 140 Heavy taper barrel from Optic Planet 50 Anderson lightweight upper 5.09 thread protector from ebay 40 free float tube and barrel nut 40 Anderson lower 40 RediMag Better mag adapter from Redi-mag 40 LPK 105 Larue two stage trigger at AR15.com 45 3 ten round short magazines - Midway sale 50 stock 15 cheap carbine receiver extension (no buffer or spring are needed if you are willing to just cut a dowel to length) $730.09 Terrible, isn't it? I could have cut that total by $150 by using a New Frontier complete lower, but I wanted a heavier stock, stiffer lower and a two stage trigger), and you can do better on some of these depending on whatever sales are running. If I had wanted a very light but accurate 22lr AR, a mag adapter and New Frontier complete lower plus this upper, http://www.carbonarms.us/AR-15-Upper...2lr-upper.html would also have made an great rifle. I can sling up with a lot of tension and not throw off the POI, the barrel is nitrided, it runs subsonic ammunition without error even when dirty and it will feed empty brass. I think it could function with a full match chamber. It isn't as accurate as a Carbon Arms upper, but it will put a ten round group of Federal automatch bulk into the middle of the two inch printed circles I use at 50 yards. It does better with Aquila SV and even better with subsonic. I'd like a heavier recoil spring just because I get hammer follow issues occasionally with Remington Gold Bullet and Thunderbolt.
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August 9, 2017, 05:15 PM | #7 |
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DPMS has a dedicated 22 upper, designed to be a 22 and not a shoehorned in conversion.
I have one and it has been both accurate and reliable, with only a couple malfunctions using cheap ammo during the first mag or two... And that was with smaller statured inexperienced shooters who may not have held the rifle tightly to their shoulder. They run about $350. I got mine on sale for a bit under $300. Nordic Components also makes a dedicated 22 upper, in fact, they make the DPMS version... The Nordic version is a Gen 2 of the DPMS, as best I can tell. I don't know the cost though. My dedicated 22 build cost right at $450 all said and done... The same cost as a MP 22 AR at the time. That s a full build from scratch, complete rifle. All while being accurate in weight and made with aluminum receivers rather than being made of polymer. Polymer can hold up to a 22lr no problem, but they are not very tough for rough handling. I know a guy who slipped in some mud and broke his MP22 AR. Plus the reliability and accuracy is much better in a dedicated 22 upper. (The CMMG dedicated upper uses a modified version of their conversion bolt assembly... So it isn't as reliable as it could be... Not that it is bad... Between the better reliability, and the lower cost, is I went a different direction than CMMG) Last edited by marine6680; August 9, 2017 at 05:35 PM. |
August 9, 2017, 06:02 PM | #8 |
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If my memory serves, DPMS was marketing a design that was developed with CZ a couple of decades ago. The Nordic RB upper can be had for less than $450. I did a quick search for the chamber dimensions on it, but got nothing. I like the Nordic upper, but had misgivings about using a stainless barrel.
The S&W 15-22 seems to have reliability and low cost as its twin virtues. You can find them with a magazine and flip up sights for around $300. I am a proponent of polymer in the right place, but the problem with a polymer upper receiver is that flex makes the POI move considerably. IMO, the big drawback of the CMMG is the sloppy sporter chamber; my guess is that it is used to allow reliable feeding from the Black Dog style magazines.
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August 9, 2017, 08:27 PM | #9 |
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"I've decided that I'm actually going to get a cmmg conversion kit and a separate upper that it will live in all the time."
This is exactly what I did... I already had an old upper without a BGC so I added the CMMG "conversion" and a charging handle... Regardless of what anyone else claims, mine has been 100% reliable, no magazine problems and is very accurate... T. |
August 10, 2017, 01:34 AM | #10 |
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I don't know what the chamber dimension is for the DPMS upper... But it is pretty accurate for being a M4 clone style.
I get groups right at 1/2in at 25yds most of the time, with a couple that get down to 1/4in, and a few up to 3/4in at the same distance. All using cheap ammo. More than good enough for plinking fun at typical 22lr ranges. It feeds well from the black dog mags too. They also have a free floated target style upper as well, which may be more accurate, if that is the direction you want to go. I think a dedicated 22lr upper is the best way to go, for reliability and accuracy. Not only that, but the DPMS is likely to be similar in cost to trying to build a cheap upper and get a conversion kit for it. You are looking at spending $150 at least to get an upper receiver, parts kit and barrel, if you get the lowest cost ones you can. A CMMG conversion kit costs about $200+ last I looked. You are already at $350, and will not have as good of results as with an upper designed to use 22lr. I hope the OP pops back in... Too often I see people post a new thread asking questions, only for them to never return, or at least, never chime in with any updates. |
August 10, 2017, 05:08 AM | #11 | |
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Quote:
A lot of the responses here are noting that the conversion bolt necessarily involves compromises* he might not prefer to make if he isn't utilizing old parts. ____________________ * Most often cited are bore dimensions, rate of twist and free bore.
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August 10, 2017, 07:34 AM | #12 |
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I saw an ad for a $170 upper but you're not going to like it as it had 1-7 twist.
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August 11, 2017, 03:51 AM | #13 |
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Forget cheap and go with the DPMS dedicated upper for a unit that is engineered for the .22 LR and has the same weight and feel as a standard M4. The only feature lacking is the bolt hold open device, the bolt remains back when captured by the mag follower. Takes a Black Dog mags, the best in the .22 arena.
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August 11, 2017, 09:41 AM | #14 |
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Please pardon the tangent.
All of the systems discussed in this thread use a small solid metal bolt and narrow spring that operate entirely within the footprint of a 5.56 AR bolt. Why? Everyone with an AR already has a big durable spring that fits his receiver extension. Couldn't a piece of delrin or aluminium rod about as long as a real AR bolt be machined to operate against a real AR spring and be given a steel face or insert for durability? For what it's worth, I had a Feather AT-22 back in the 90s (sort of a 22lr sten in construction). It used quite a circumferent bolt and a large diameter spring; it was extremely reliable. Notwithstanding the familiarity and ubiquity of the Ceiner layout, I imagine an aluminium or delrin BCG being cheaper to machine.
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August 11, 2017, 10:46 AM | #15 | |
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My CMMG Sierra upper has been more reliable than two different Ruger 10/22s I own. That says a lot. |
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August 11, 2017, 10:52 AM | #16 |
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I have made my gallant return. One of the reasons I was drawn to the conversion kit is that I have a polymer lower built and ready to rock already. I don't really want to subject it to center fire cartridges all the time and risk breaking it. Believe it or not I could probably sell it for $500 or so in MA with some of the legal bs that's gone down here in the last year.
On top of that, I found a cmmg kit for $180 shipped with 3 mags. Just seemed like a reasonable way to get a little bit more out of the equipment I already have at a reasonable price. It makes absolute sense that a dedicated .22 upper or rifle would do a better job, but realistically this is a plinker and as long as I can get "shoot garbage I throw out on the berm" type accuracy for a conversion, I'd be happy. As for stoppages, I would probably be satisfied if I had a failure or two every 50-100 rounds of meh ammo. So if anyone has any experiences based on a kit they own or a lead on a cheapo upper, would be much appreciated. As an aside, I have a 10/22 that is dead on reliable, with many thousands of rounds through it and only a handful of failures. If I really needed a .22 (for some reason) that's the one I would grab. |
August 11, 2017, 11:02 AM | #17 | ||
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My impression is that CMMG, Spike's and a number of other places, other than DPMS and S&W, are all using variations on the Ceiner design. Quote:
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August 11, 2017, 11:17 AM | #18 | |
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http://www.jsesurplus.com/JJSE16M41X...CGNOCHNOH.aspx This one is $160 and has a 1:9 twist: http://www.hardenedarms.com/ecProduct_286_27-16" 5.56 M4 1/9 Tactical 10" HD Quad Rail Upper
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August 11, 2017, 01:35 PM | #19 |
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That part about increased stress from a .22 because it's blowback....really?? I was told that was probably true of 9mm (which is why I didn't sub that in) but it's hard to believe when the bolt only reciprocates like 2" in the conversion kit.
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August 11, 2017, 02:08 PM | #20 | |
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If you look at the Rock River hammer, you'll see that the leg on which the hooks sit is thinner than on a Geissele or Larue. Apparently that slender leg can't take the beating of the faster bolt. My point isn't that your polymer lower won't take the stress, only that the slower motion of the heavier and longer travel 5.56 system may be less stressful. Full disclosure, I have a Delton two stage (which I find very similar in appearance to the RR) in a New Fronter lower. I used this on my dedicated 22lr for several hundred rounds with no ill effect. However, I really like that Delton, so I built a new lower for the 22 using a Larue.
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August 11, 2017, 09:54 PM | #21 | |
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I'd suggest that it's a matter of physics. While a .22LR blowback may have enough energy to push the buffer weight and spring tension far enough for the short cycle of a .22LR through an action designed as you speak, it likely wouldn't be ideal. There are several spring and buffer combinations that would create unknown factors in both required energy to cycle as well as timing of the action. Not to mention the action needs to be tested against many different ammunition and magazine combinations to begin with. Additional factors of spring and buffer add exponentially many more combinations to test every time you make an iteration. A single vendor designing their own self contained action gives more control to that vendor, with simplified testing and a greater chance of success. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (meaning my post is likely full of poor typing and autocorrects using wrong words) Last edited by ColoradoMinuteMan; August 12, 2017 at 10:23 AM. |
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August 12, 2017, 10:49 AM | #22 | |||
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The downside I could foresee in the larger 5.56 sized bolt for a 22lr would be increased friction along the upper receiver walls. However, my old AT-22 never seemed to suffer any problems from that, or anything else. Thanks for addressing my tangent. I acknowledge that it's barely more than a daydream.
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August 18, 2017, 06:50 PM | #23 | |
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Yours is an M4 profile? What sort of muzzle device are you using? I'd like to use another heavy taper barrel, but those appear to be scarce. I don't like the M4 profile in principle, but several places have the M4 profile in stock.
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August 20, 2017, 04:07 PM | #24 |
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Do yourself a favor and get a dedicated .22LR upper. I had an original Colt .22LR Conversion and later a CMMG Conversion kit. Finally bought a CMMG upper that was a dedicated .22LR. Better than a conversion kit or one of these
http://www.opticsplanet.com/cmmg-inc...2LRKGP-22D7C6C Last edited by gshayd; August 20, 2017 at 04:22 PM. |
August 20, 2017, 07:43 PM | #25 | |
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