Can't reload to factory specs?

[cchardwick]

I'm looking for the most powerful reload possible for my 44 Mag Desert Eagle to eliminate my failure to eject issues which is a well known problem with the Desert Eagle (mine is very picky about ammo). Magnum Research recommends a hand full of ammo and I found one that looks great: Federal Premium.

Federal Premium Ammo Specs

According to the specs above this ammunition pushes a 240 grain JHP at an amazing 1440 feet per second. In my Lyman reloading manual the fastest I can push a 240 grain bullet of any type is 1301 feet per second. Is the factory ammo a +P or +P+ ammo? It's odd that it isn't listed as +P ammo. Anyone have any idea how I can load to these specs and get an equivalent 1440 fps out of my reloads?

[amamnn]

I've learned to be skeptical of any specs Federal publishes. That being said, ammo makers have started using proprietary powders and powder blends not available to handloaders. You might try the loading data section of Hodgon's website. The Vihtavuori site has good data as well.

[Shoney]

First. There is no SAAMI listing of +P, much less a +P+ for 44 Mag.

Second. When you look at published data, you need to look at the weapon used and the barrel length, as that will make a big difference in some instances.

Third. Factories have access to powders that we do not, and in addition they have techniques (like extreemly long and efficient drop tube technology) that will pack more powder into a case than you possibly can. There are many discussions of loaders taking their premium loads apart and not being able to get it all the powder back in.


Fourth. All the speed in the world does nothing if you cannot hit your target.

[rn22723]

You might want to just worry about working up a load that safe, accurate, and reliable in your guns. As stated above you can lay hands on the powder that factories use. You can chronograph factory loads as point of reference and then if the bullet is available for a component work up a similar load.

[crowbeaner]

Try 24.0 of WW 296 and CCI 350 primers with a .429 diameter soft or hollowpoint in Federal or WW cases. This will almost duplicate the WW factory loading, and WW uses 296 in their factory ammo if the booklet is to be believed. If you have the RCBS 44-240-SWC gascheck bullet, use the same brass and primer with 25.0 of 296. The lead load is supposed to be about 1500 fps.; I can attest that the recoil of 50 rounds will leave your shooting hand with the trembles. For a lighter bullet, 27.0 of H110 with a 180 grain JHP and 26.0 of H110 with a 200 grain. Use magnum primers. I've shot thousands of these loads in my Redhawk and M29s, and they all shot them quite well.

[WESHOOT2]

My Accurate #1 has data specific to the Desert Eagle.

[Sevens]

First. There is no SAAMI listing of +P, much less a +P+ for 44 Mag.

This is key and I just wanted to stop for a second and help explain it a bit so it doesn't get lost in the discussion.

SAAMI sets the industry standard for small arms. "plus-p" is a designation they use in a few calibers and those denote a different pressure range, but a set range. In other words, "plus-p" doesn't simply mean "more pressure than the regular stuff", rather it has a new maximum for pressure in that caliber for which it is designated.

It should also be denoted that SAAMI (last time I checked) hasn't ever used the term "+P+" in any caliber, so when you see someone talking about "+p+" you can usually bet that it's not anything standard. I've seen some brass head stamps with +P+ on them, but that has always been chalked up to marketing.

[zxcvbob]

There are lots of powders that will get you into that ballpark at max loads: Lil'Gun, 296, 2400, AA7, AA9, AA4100, Enforcer, VV-N105, etc.

I don't know much about the DE, but maybe instead of more energy, you just need a quicker impulse (Power Pistol, Herco, AA5, etc)

[sargenv]

Something someone else hasn't suggested.. at least when I was skimming through is the use of heavier bullets. There are 270, 300, and 320 gr bullets available for the 44 magnum.. Instead of more powder, maybe it needs more momentum.

Powders I'd reccommend are Lil'gun, 296/H110, H4227/IMR4227, Longshot, one of the slower Vitt powders, and Alliant 2400 would be my choices.

[Sevens]

The Desert Eagle is a gas operated semi-auto. All it (should?) need is an appropriate shot of gas in the chamber, bullet weight shouldn't have much to do with it. It's the gas that slams the slide back, it's not the reverse momentum of the brass case doing that work.

[cchardwick]

I can attest that the recoil of 50 rounds will leave your shooting hand with the trembles

Have you ever fired a Desert Eagle? It's the worlds only 44 Remington Magnum semi-automatic and the action of the slide takes up most of the recoil, not to mention the gun weights about five pounds. I find that it kicks just a little more than my .45 ACP Glock 21, in fact they are very similar in recoil. I could shoot the Desert Eagle all day and it won't hurt me at all. I've never shot a revolver but from what I hear I'm not sure I would want to shoot one.

Some say 296 is not very flexible but flexibility is not what I'm after. I'm looking for a stout load that I can always load the same that will always 100% cycle my Desert Eagle. I did find the load in Lymans 48th edition Reloading Handbook and have a range of between 22.5 and 23.5 grains but am sticking to the max load. I'm 100% comfortable shooting big loads with big flash and a big boom!

I did find a great load with Lil'gun on the Hogdon website that pushes the fps up to 1582 fps (NICE!) but I can't seem to find the Nosler 240 grain JHP bullets anywhere, everyone is sold out with no backorder possible. And from what I've heard I don't want to substitute another 240 grain because of variations in bullet length and OAL.

I always thought a +P was a load with more powder only to be used for firearms that are specified as safe to use with +P ammo, loads above the safe for general firearm use and to only be used in certain firearms that can handle the load.

[Loader9]

If you follow WESHOOT2 advise and go to the Accurate website, they have data that exceeds the Federal loads. I've found AA9 to work in the Desert Eagles I've played with. Might wanna give it a try.
http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/P...20to%20135.pdf

[cchardwick]

Thanks for the link, that's some great load data!

[Shoney]

There are only 4 SAAMI designations of +P and NO +P+ exist

Cartridge and Maximum Average Pressure (PSI)

9mm Luger 35,000
9mm Luger +P 38,500

38 Special 17,000
38 Special +P 18,500

38 Super Auto +P 36,500

45 Auto 21,000
45 Auto +P 23,000

[ForneyRider]

H110/W296, or Lil'gun will get you 1400fps easily with 240gr.

Now for those 340gr Buffalo Bores, I have no idea. I looked all over the internet for a load to match, and found none. My guess is rifle powder, or a mixed powder. Just can't get enough H110 powder in case with 340gr bullet to achieve 1400fps.

Buffalo Bore: (www.buffalobore.com)
340 gr. LBT-LFN GC . (1478 fps / M.E. 1649 ft. lbs.)


Hodgdon data: www.hodgdon.com
330 GR. BTB LFN GC Hodgdon H110 .430" 1.730" 19.0 1239 30,200 CUP 20.8 1350 38,800 CUP
355 GR. BTB LFN GC Hodgdon H110 .430" 1.710" 17.5 1168 29,300 CUP 18.8 1245 38,000 CUP

[Artisan]

I don't know of any safe way to truly duplicate those Buffalo Bore loads. Buffalo Bore uses very slow burning powders not available to the hobbyist. Simply trying to cram more H110 (or similar powder) into a case will result in a dangerous overpressure situation. Pressures do not rise in a linear fashion as the reloader increases powder charges, especially at the top of designed pressure ranges. Mixing powders will not react as expected and is a very dangerous practice. Please do not attempt to duplicate those loads!!

[WESHOOT2]

Ditto AA9 (big gun, ay?)

[ForneyRider]

I edited the above post for 240gr bullet.