Found some guns... need advice ASAP.

Lambdebois · April 2, 2012, 07:59 PM

A friend of mine cleans houses for foreclosures.

Today I received a call saying they found with some guns in one. Very nice ones.

Can these guns be claimed and taken to a ffl to transfer assuming they haven't been reported missing or stolen since it was in a foreclosed house that was being cleaned out?

How should I advise this friend?

How should I have the serial numbers checked?

What should I advice them to do?

Chris_B · April 2, 2012, 08:03 PM

Local laws will probably need to be considered, and I'd ask a local lawyer

**Spats McGee** · April 2, 2012, 08:04 PM

Advise the friend to call a lawyer and get some honest-to-goodness, bought-and-paid-for legal advice.

Lambdebois · April 2, 2012, 08:19 PM

That's what I did. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

**4V50 Gary** · April 2, 2012, 08:37 PM

Title remains with title holder of guns. Foreclosures do not include personal chattel.

Patriot86 · April 2, 2012, 08:48 PM

@the OP: I still think local laws might come into play, those guys on the auction hunter type shows seem to lay claim to guns "abandoned" in storage units all the time. I also remember from one of those rehab shows some states laws saying that you must store any personal property for X number of days after buying a foreclosure.

I would stick with what others have said, contact a local lawyer who knows all the inn's and out's of your applicable local, state and federal laws.

Walklightly · April 3, 2012, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Title remains with title holder of guns. Foreclosures do not include personal chattel.

Those guns to me, should be considered lost, and turned into the police, to be returned to the rightfull owner.

Just put your self in the owners place.

Young.Gun.612 · April 3, 2012, 02:34 AM

If they left them in the home, they are (or should be considered) abandoned property. I know foreclosure ia tough, but its not like you go to work and come home and they changed the locks.

**4V50 Gary** · April 3, 2012, 07:21 AM

Walk lightly is right. I should expound further.

The distinction between a rental storage unit and a foreclosed home is the former involves a lease in which the lessor/renter signs an agreement stipulating that non payment results in forfeiture of chattel therein. In a house foreclosure, you lose the house. Title to chattel (non real property) remains with the title holder (person who owns that non real property). Thus the firearms still belongs to the folks who were foreclosed on. An argument may be made that they were abandoned, but one should check the legal definition of abandoned in that state. Second, because they are firearms and not a dining room table or toaster, federal laws may apply. If those title holders report to the police that the guns were stolen, would any sane person then want to hire an attorney to first clear up the criminal charges and a second attorney to contest title? Finders keepers do not apply and cannot be asserted (successfully) as a defense.

I would take them to the police and try to reclaim them after their waiting period. At least there will be documentation that an earnest effort was made to return the items to the original title holder. With the police receipts, it gives the finder protection against theft charges and new title (which may still be contested).

Daugherty16 · April 3, 2012, 02:32 PM

You basically have (or had) two choices:the first (illegal, or at the least dishonest) is to make the guns disappear when first found, say nothing to noone; the second is to do it properly and report the find to the local police. You can't really assume they belonged to the former owner of the house; might have been a renter, or even a squatter. Unlikely but possible.

Another consideration is that your friend, cleaning out the house, isn't the owner of the house (presumably that is the former lender or buyer at the foreclosure sale). If anything found in the house passes to the buyer, THAT is who it would be, not your friend unless he has contractual salvage rights or something.

While i hate the idea of handing any guns over to any police officer, it seems like the only responsible and professional thing to do.

dlb0412 · April 3, 2012, 02:50 PM

It would be wrong to keep the guns im sure the owner would like them back they had it bad enough geting kicked out of there home. I would get the police to track them down and return them.

ltc444 · April 3, 2012, 07:56 PM

1st I would consult a lawyer and have him make the transfer.
2nd the guns may be stolen or have been used in a criminal enterpriss. The former occupants or a squatter may have deliberately left them there. If this is the case, then turning the guns in to the police could place you in jeporady.
3rd. Ownership may transfer to the cleaner depending on the contract with the trustee.

TXAZ · April 3, 2012, 08:03 PM

If it isn't his, the reason he would take it would be what...

**4V50 Gary** · April 4, 2012, 10:04 AM

Thread closed at OP's request. If anyone wants to start a new thread about finding guns, please do so.

April 2, 2012, 07:59 PM	#1
Lambdebois Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 123	Found some guns... need advice ASAP. A friend of mine cleans houses for foreclosures. Today I received a call saying they found with some guns in one. Very nice ones. Can these guns be claimed and taken to a ffl to transfer assuming they haven't been reported missing or stolen since it was in a foreclosed house that was being cleaned out? How should I advise this friend? How should I have the serial numbers checked? What should I advice them to do?

April 2, 2012, 08:04 PM	#3
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Advise the friend to call a lawyer and get some honest-to-goodness, bought-and-paid-for legal advice. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

April 2, 2012, 08:37 PM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	Title remains with title holder of guns. Foreclosures do not include personal chattel. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 3, 2012, 07:21 AM	#9
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	Walk lightly is right. I should expound further. The distinction between a rental storage unit and a foreclosed home is the former involves a lease in which the lessor/renter signs an agreement stipulating that non payment results in forfeiture of chattel therein. In a house foreclosure, you lose the house. Title to chattel (non real property) remains with the title holder (person who owns that non real property). Thus the firearms still belongs to the folks who were foreclosed on. An argument may be made that they were abandoned, but one should check the legal definition of abandoned in that state. Second, because they are firearms and not a dining room table or toaster, federal laws may apply. If those title holders report to the police that the guns were stolen, would any sane person then want to hire an attorney to first clear up the criminal charges and a second attorney to contest title? Finders keepers do not apply and cannot be asserted (successfully) as a defense. I would take them to the police and try to reclaim them after their waiting period. At least there will be documentation that an earnest effort was made to return the items to the original title holder. With the police receipts, it gives the finder protection against theft charges and new title (which may still be contested). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 3, 2012, 02:32 PM	#10
Daugherty16 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Live Free or Die state Posts: 259	Further Thoughts You basically have (or had) two choices:the first (illegal, or at the least dishonest) is to make the guns disappear when first found, say nothing to noone; the second is to do it properly and report the find to the local police. You can't really assume they belonged to the former owner of the house; might have been a renter, or even a squatter. Unlikely but possible. Another consideration is that your friend, cleaning out the house, isn't the owner of the house (presumably that is the former lender or buyer at the foreclosure sale). If anything found in the house passes to the buyer, THAT is who it would be, not your friend unless he has contractual salvage rights or something. While i hate the idea of handing any guns over to any police officer, it seems like the only responsible and professional thing to do. __________________ "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon.

April 2, 2012, 08:03 PM	#2
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Local laws will probably need to be considered, and I'd ask a local lawyer

April 2, 2012, 08:19 PM	#4
Lambdebois Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Location: St. Louis Posts: 123	That's what I did. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

April 2, 2012, 08:48 PM	#6
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	@the OP: I still think local laws might come into play, those guys on the auction hunter type shows seem to lay claim to guns "abandoned" in storage units all the time. I also remember from one of those rehab shows some states laws saying that you must store any personal property for X number of days after buying a foreclosure. I would stick with what others have said, contact a local lawyer who knows all the inn's and out's of your applicable local, state and federal laws.

April 3, 2012, 02:34 AM	#8
Young.Gun.612 Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 400	If they left them in the home, they are (or should be considered) abandoned property. I know foreclosure ia tough, but its not like you go to work and come home and they changed the locks.

April 3, 2012, 02:50 PM	#11
dlb0412 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2012 Posts: 136	It would be wrong to keep the guns im sure the owner would like them back they had it bad enough geting kicked out of there home. I would get the police to track them down and return them.

April 3, 2012, 07:56 PM	#12
ltc444 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2011 Location: Vernon AZ Posts: 1,195	1st I would consult a lawyer and have him make the transfer. 2nd the guns may be stolen or have been used in a criminal enterpriss. The former occupants or a squatter may have deliberately left them there. If this is the case, then turning the guns in to the police could place you in jeporady. 3rd. Ownership may transfer to the cleaner depending on the contract with the trustee.

April 3, 2012, 08:03 PM	#13
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	If it isn't his, the reason he would take it would be what... __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

April 4, 2012, 10:04 AM	#14
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	Thread closed at OP's request. If anyone wants to start a new thread about finding guns, please do so. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*