The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 29, 2013, 05:12 PM   #1
bamiller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2010
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 455
Powder Storage in Gun Safe

I have a good sized fire rated gun safe that my wife bought me for Christmas and was wondering if it would be OK/safe to store my reloading powder in their original containers in there. I currently have one of those dehumidifying rods in the safe along with my rifles, shotguns, handguns, and loaded ammunition. Thanks before hand for the input.
bamiller is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 05:22 PM   #2
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 7,097
I wouldn't.

If there were a fire I wouldn't want something as flamable as gunpowder inside the safe, even if the safe was fire rated.

Jimro
__________________
Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.
Jimro is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 05:24 PM   #3
LE-28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 24, 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 758
No,

You would be making a very large bomb it if a fire exceeded the fire rating of the safe.
There are no gun safes that are UL listed for fire ratings. You have no idea if the mfg is lying about theirs.

My gun safe is supposed to be rated at 1800 degrees for 2 hrs. I will never believe it.

Keep you powder in a cabinet that the doors will blow out easily so there can't be compression of the gasses if you are unfortunate enough to have a house fire and it ignites.

I keep some loaded ammo in my gun safe but no bulk containers of powder.

My bulk powder is on open shelves in my loading room. If a fire, it can burn but not blow.
LE-28 is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 06:11 PM   #4
serf 'rett
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2009
Location: Stuttgart, AR
Posts: 1,569
It's not recommended.

For a good discussing and cussing of powder storage see:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=470255
__________________
A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.
serf 'rett is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 06:17 PM   #5
shootniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,599
As others have said, I would not.
shootniron is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 06:23 PM   #6
jason_iowa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Posts: 686
If you don't mind a huge frag bomb in your house then its not a problem. Seems like to big of a risk to me.
jason_iowa is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 09:39 PM   #7
bamiller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2010
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 455
Sounds like the general concensus is "no". Thanks for the help.
bamiller is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 10:33 PM   #8
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,367
An old refrigerator with a magnetic, NOT mechanical, door seal can make a good powder storage locker. It's insulative, you can control humidity, and if there is a problem, the door will simply pop open.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 10:38 PM   #9
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
An old refrigerator is a great idea, for all the reasons you mentioned. Plus, who hasn't accumulated an old non-working fridge at some point in their lives? Probably less hassle to turn it into a powder locker than it would be to have the refrigerant recovered from it so that you can legally dispose of it.
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 10:40 PM   #10
johnwilliamson062
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
Quote:
There are no gun safes that are UL listed for fire ratings. You have no idea if the mfg is lying about theirs.
I do. They are.
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 11:00 PM   #11
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,217
Safe heats and the seals expand. Powder hit critical temp and KABOOM!!!!
I dont think its safe in any way. Although 8-10lbs of powder would be very impressive from 300-400 yards away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYKxwWZ-aRM
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
"If you find yourself in a fair fight,,,
Your tactics suck"
- Unknown
BoogieMan is offline  
Old January 29, 2013, 11:48 PM   #12
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 3,963
Don't keep ammo in the safe, either. Unload the magazines, everything.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 01:23 AM   #13
hk33ka1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2010
Posts: 275
I don't think your safe would blow up, but if the powder caught fire your guns would be ruined where otherwise the safe may have saved them.


I store powders in their factory bottles/cans and would build a box out of plywood or an old SKS crate and put it in that. If there's little children around a lock won't hurt either so they dont open and mix all the pretty powders together. An old unplugged refrigerator also makes a great powder magazine.
hk33ka1 is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 01:17 PM   #14
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
Powder, except black powder, is a flammable solid, not an explosive; HOWEVER, if that solid ignites in a sealed container, there is no where for the pressure to go, thus it becomes a bomb - just like your loaded ammo. The weak spot is the bullet sitting in the case with the barrel - the forces move everything in that direction. Drop that same round in a campfire and it will sizzle and pop
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 04:13 PM   #15
jaguarxk120
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,617
If you go to the Alliant web site they a write up on how to store smokeless powder.
jaguarxk120 is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 04:25 PM   #16
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,930
It is suggested to store powder in a wooden cabinet with a simple hinge, and hasps. Smokelss powder in the can is flamable. If compressed into a tight space with nowhere for the gas to escape it makes an explosion.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old January 30, 2013, 09:01 PM   #17
GeauxTide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 4,413
I used to have a salesman try to sell me fireproof file drawers for Personnel files. The fire wouldn't get inside, but the contents would be charred and useless. Same process on fire rated gun safes. In a fire, your wood and plastic stocks would be scarred at best, ruined at worst. There is also a reason the powder manufacturers put the product in loosely sealed containers. No pressure, no boom. Locked safe = pressure. KABOOM.
GeauxTide is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 12:15 AM   #18
Burly
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2013
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 6
Nub to the board but also a firefighter with a small amount of knowledge on the subject.

The fire rating is based on the safe being impacted by external temperatures for a certain amount of time with the internal temp not exceeding 350 degrees. Smokeless powders can auto ignite (that’s igniting without and open flame ignition source) in the 320 degree range (Accurate double-base MSDS), I would imagine black powder and maybe even some other smokeless powders could be less.

That being said, unless you are packing a significant amount of powder into your safe (in my mind that's >5lbs in a 40 cubic safe) I doubt that you would have a catastrophic failure of the safe. There just isn't enough gas produced in the combustion to cause the safe to go boom. However, in the event of a fire there would certainly be an increased potential for the loss of everything combustible inside with internal temperature never meeting the rating of the safe (at least prior to the powder lighting off). Sorry to be so thorough, it’s just how my brain is wired.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_...ess_Powder.pdf

Saami's recommendations for powder storage, based off National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) standards.

Last edited by Burly; February 4, 2013 at 12:36 AM.
Burly is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 10:11 AM   #19
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,367
I THINK auto ignition temperature of black powder is in the 450 deg. F range, but I'm not sure about that anymore.

OK, found links to a thread with MSDS information.

It's higher than I thought.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...?topic=27921.0
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 12:40 PM   #20
snuffy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2001
Location: Oshkosh wi.
Posts: 3,055
All the dreamed up worst case scenarios about giant explosions aside, what is so valuable about a few pounds of powder? Or is it to keep less mature people, or clueless minds away from it?

A locked cabinet, or other storage place in a locked room is another alternative. My powder is sitting on various shelves in my house. I live alone, my dog shows no interest in messing with it, and any visitors know not to mess with it.

A little common sense and a lot less paranoia is required. Ignorance breeds fear, so getting smarter=less fear.
__________________
The more people I meet, the more I love my dog

They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?
snuffy is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 12:55 PM   #21
rclark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2009
Location: Butte, MT
Posts: 2,613
Quote:
what is so valuable about a few pounds of powder????
+1. Mine is sitting in wooden cabinets and on shelves in my basement. Same with the primers and bullets. No biggie. Guns are one thing, components something else. Common sense goes a loooong way .
__________________
A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.
rclark is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 01:17 PM   #22
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,367
"Or is it to keep less mature people, or clueless minds away from it?"

Largely that, and the fact that it really should be treated like any other quantity of a flammable chemical mixture.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09489 seconds with 10 queries