Young Shotgunners....

Dave McC · March 26, 2001, 07:44 AM

Sometimes life is filled with contrasts. On recent Fridays I shoot at PGC with the Geezer League,which is the Geezer squad I wrote about recently(I seem to fit right in) and on Sundays I shoot at AGC, with a mixed bag of shooters. It got more mixed yesterday.

Besides the usual suspects, one Dad showed up with what seemed to be an Explorer post with him,maybe 5 adolescent boys ranging from strapping 6 footers to a boy of 4 foot, couple inches and maybe 90 lbs. The small one had his own shotgun, a 20 ga H&R/NEF with a short stock.

I had gotten there early and helped set up.So, I was on the first 4 squads, and we had shot a couple of rounds when the scouts showed up. I heard the adult in charge ask if there were any 410 shells for sale, they needed some for one boy's shotgun. The wheels started turning in my head. As the adult told the boys that one of them would have to wait his turn with the shotguns they had,I stepped forward and told them that I had brought two shotguns and plenty of loads, asking which kid needed a loaner. A 6 footer stepped forward. I got Frankenstein from the car, along with a couple boxes of reloads, gave the kid a very fast course on the 870, and we stepped up to the line, after a fast conference with the rangemaster and the adult with the kids.

I was on post 1, the kid with Frankenstein on 2, the other adult on 3, the little kid with the 20 ga on 4, and another kid with a BPS on 5. This way, at no time was a kid more than 2 posts away from an adult. The round started...

It was obvious that none of the kids had much training, tho they were conscientious about range safety. Stance and mount were awful. But they broke some clays, and the grin on the face of the kid with Frankenstein when he busted his first was worth the trip.

After the round, I asked the adult if I could give a little instruction to his charges. He assented gratefully, and the kids got shooting 101, real fast. I worked on stance, mounting, and sight picture.

The kids,all of them, got into it the next couple of rounds, and started busting more than they missed.While this was happening, a variety of other shooters showed up, including a couple guys I knew who are not exactly known for their patience or people skills. No complaints from anyone. Everyone out there wanted those kids to have a great time.

The afternoon went fast, and after a few more rounds I got Frankenstein back with a fervent thank you.As I was leaving, I asked the littlest Scout how he did.

He looked way up at me,grinned like a possum eating hot roadkill, and said," I kicked their butts". I laughed, but checked the scorecard before leaving. He had shot a pair of 16s back to back, beating out the other boys and a few of the adults with that little 20.

Think about it. How many of us could handle a 5 lb 20 ga, Modified choke, no pad, just a butt plate and still hit 16/25 at ATA style trap? Especially if we just weighed 90 lbs and had a 18 inch shirt sleeve? That boy shot at least 4 rounds(100 shots) and did his best on the last two rounds.

And the point to this rambling tale? Think about it.

I bet none of these kids will accept the PC view that guns are evil. I also bet none of them end up misusing guns, or committing acts of violence. And maybe they'll remember the kindness of an old stranger and pay it forward someday, helping out someone simply because it's a good thing to do and they can.That's a good thing for all of us, both as shooters and as people...

And that littlest kid,with the died blonde punk haircut and the earrings,has himself a victory, and kids NEED victories.

Have a good'un....

Clemson · March 26, 2001, 08:39 PM

Amen, Dave!

Years ago I got my boy an 1100 Youth Model with the full intent of putting a longer stock and longer barrel on it when he grew up. He is now 22 and over six feet tall. I bought the longer barrel and the longer stock, but I never put them on the gun. I still use that 20 gauge regularly to teach kids (and several small-framed women) how to shoot.

The only down-side is that I "lost" my own 1100 LT 20 to my son. It has been worth it.

Clemson

smark · March 27, 2001, 02:43 PM

Dave:

you mentioned that you taught this kids to shoot your 870. I assume that it was 12 guage? What loads were you using?

I have two boys (13,11) who love to shoot. I recently bought a Beretta 390, with the intention of giving my oldest, (almost 13, and VERY althletic) my 870 express 12 guage to shoot. It seems to fit him pretty well, and he has no problem handling the weight of it. I was advised to get 7/8 ounce loads for him, so as to cut down of the recoil. However, every place I look does not carry the 7/8 ounce 12 guage loads. Do you think he will have trouble, or develope a bad flinch habit if I give him 1 ounce # 8's to shoot for either sporting clays or skeet? Sporting Clays, as you know, is 50 rounds. That seems like a lot for a pump gun. I was thinking about getting him a 20 guage semi to shoot, but after reading your story above, I'm wondering if I really need the 20 guage. any advise? Also, how do regular shooters usually react when kids show up with their fathers to shoot? Am I seriously handicapping my son with the 870 on skeet or s/c's.
Thanks, I look forward to your comments.
Steve

Dave McC · March 27, 2001, 03:17 PM

Thanks,Clemson.

Steve, you're coming in a trifle late on this, sorry.

Frankenstein is a 12 ga, mismatched finish parts gun I built some years back. The wood's so ugly I painted it black, the 21" bbl adds a certain air to the looks and it shoots where it's pointed. Weight is a hair over 7 lbs. Friends call it the BUG, Black Ugly Gun.

The kid who borrowed it was 6' tall,athletic in build,and seemed quite comfortable with it, but....

People,including kids, vary wildly in how much recoil they can tolerate, and seemingly how much they feel. I started hunting with a H&R 16 ga not much different from the 20 ga the smallest kid in this had,and built one heckuva flinch by my 15th B-day. By then I was shooting an 870, which eased up the flinch immensely from the extra weight.

Your son may or may not be able to handle 1 oz loads in that 870 Express. But make it easy on him. Sacrifice that stock,or get another one,and not only shorten it to his specs, but mount a top line recoil pad and make sure the pitch, drop,etc, are suitable for him. While this is being done, add some weight under the pad to keep the shotgun in balance. A couple oz will do the job. When you're done, the piece should balance around the front of the loading port when the weapon is empty, action closed. A stock that fits and enough weight are the keys to shooting comfort.A 1 oz load should be comfortable to shoot in a shotgun well over 6 lbs, and that Express should go about 7. As your son grows, those 1/4" spacers can be added to lengthen the stock by increments.

Start out light and stop when he wants to. I'd set some clays on the bank and let him shoot a few, just to see them bust. Then maybe a few handthrown(Like a Frisbee) targets so he can get used to swinging and shooting at a moving target before he steps up to Post 1.

Hope this helps...

Dave McC · March 28, 2001, 10:06 AM

Sorry again Steve, I see I ignored a couple of questions you had.

Loads were reloads, 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot. Stiffer than needed from the 16 yards line, but they double as dove and game loads. I don't notice the recoil,even from Frankenstein, which is light for a target gun at around 7 lbs.

As for how other shooters react to kids on the line, usually even the grumpy old men handle it well.Safety tends ot be the first concern, of course, and if the kids conform and are supervised, it's not much problem. Kids on the line tend to go a little slower than those who have done this a zillion times, and they may need a bit of urging sometimes.

Hope this helps...

March 26, 2001, 07:44 AM	#1
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Sometimes life is filled with contrasts. On recent Fridays I shoot at PGC with the Geezer League,which is the Geezer squad I wrote about recently(I seem to fit right in) and on Sundays I shoot at AGC, with a mixed bag of shooters. It got more mixed yesterday. Besides the usual suspects, one Dad showed up with what seemed to be an Explorer post with him,maybe 5 adolescent boys ranging from strapping 6 footers to a boy of 4 foot, couple inches and maybe 90 lbs. The small one had his own shotgun, a 20 ga H&R/NEF with a short stock. I had gotten there early and helped set up.So, I was on the first 4 squads, and we had shot a couple of rounds when the scouts showed up. I heard the adult in charge ask if there were any 410 shells for sale, they needed some for one boy's shotgun. The wheels started turning in my head. As the adult told the boys that one of them would have to wait his turn with the shotguns they had,I stepped forward and told them that I had brought two shotguns and plenty of loads, asking which kid needed a loaner. A 6 footer stepped forward. I got Frankenstein from the car, along with a couple boxes of reloads, gave the kid a very fast course on the 870, and we stepped up to the line, after a fast conference with the rangemaster and the adult with the kids. I was on post 1, the kid with Frankenstein on 2, the other adult on 3, the little kid with the 20 ga on 4, and another kid with a BPS on 5. This way, at no time was a kid more than 2 posts away from an adult. The round started... It was obvious that none of the kids had much training, tho they were conscientious about range safety. Stance and mount were awful. But they broke some clays, and the grin on the face of the kid with Frankenstein when he busted his first was worth the trip. After the round, I asked the adult if I could give a little instruction to his charges. He assented gratefully, and the kids got shooting 101, real fast. I worked on stance, mounting, and sight picture. The kids,all of them, got into it the next couple of rounds, and started busting more than they missed.While this was happening, a variety of other shooters showed up, including a couple guys I knew who are not exactly known for their patience or people skills. No complaints from anyone. Everyone out there wanted those kids to have a great time. The afternoon went fast, and after a few more rounds I got Frankenstein back with a fervent thank you.As I was leaving, I asked the littlest Scout how he did. He looked way up at me,grinned like a possum eating hot roadkill, and said," I kicked their butts". I laughed, but checked the scorecard before leaving. He had shot a pair of 16s back to back, beating out the other boys and a few of the adults with that little 20. Think about it. How many of us could handle a 5 lb 20 ga, Modified choke, no pad, just a butt plate and still hit 16/25 at ATA style trap? Especially if we just weighed 90 lbs and had a 18 inch shirt sleeve? That boy shot at least 4 rounds(100 shots) and did his best on the last two rounds. And the point to this rambling tale? Think about it. I bet none of these kids will accept the PC view that guns are evil. I also bet none of them end up misusing guns, or committing acts of violence. And maybe they'll remember the kindness of an old stranger and pay it forward someday, helping out someone simply because it's a good thing to do and they can.That's a good thing for all of us, both as shooters and as people... And that littlest kid,with the died blonde punk haircut and the earrings,has himself a victory, and kids NEED victories. Have a good'un....

March 26, 2001, 08:39 PM	#2
Clemson Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2001 Location: Greenwood, SC Posts: 875	Amen, Dave! Years ago I got my boy an 1100 Youth Model with the full intent of putting a longer stock and longer barrel on it when he grew up. He is now 22 and over six feet tall. I bought the longer barrel and the longer stock, but I never put them on the gun. I still use that 20 gauge regularly to teach kids (and several small-framed women) how to shoot. The only down-side is that I "lost" my own 1100 LT 20 to my son. It has been worth it. Clemson

March 27, 2001, 02:43 PM	#3
smark Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2000 Posts: 9	Dave: you mentioned that you taught this kids to shoot your 870. I assume that it was 12 guage? What loads were you using? I have two boys (13,11) who love to shoot. I recently bought a Beretta 390, with the intention of giving my oldest, (almost 13, and VERY althletic) my 870 express 12 guage to shoot. It seems to fit him pretty well, and he has no problem handling the weight of it. I was advised to get 7/8 ounce loads for him, so as to cut down of the recoil. However, every place I look does not carry the 7/8 ounce 12 guage loads. Do you think he will have trouble, or develope a bad flinch habit if I give him 1 ounce # 8's to shoot for either sporting clays or skeet? Sporting Clays, as you know, is 50 rounds. That seems like a lot for a pump gun. I was thinking about getting him a 20 guage semi to shoot, but after reading your story above, I'm wondering if I really need the 20 guage. any advise? Also, how do regular shooters usually react when kids show up with their fathers to shoot? Am I seriously handicapping my son with the 870 on skeet or s/c's. Thanks, I look forward to your comments. Steve

March 27, 2001, 03:17 PM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks,Clemson. Steve, you're coming in a trifle late on this, sorry. Frankenstein is a 12 ga, mismatched finish parts gun I built some years back. The wood's so ugly I painted it black, the 21" bbl adds a certain air to the looks and it shoots where it's pointed. Weight is a hair over 7 lbs. Friends call it the BUG, Black Ugly Gun. The kid who borrowed it was 6' tall,athletic in build,and seemed quite comfortable with it, but.... People,including kids, vary wildly in how much recoil they can tolerate, and seemingly how much they feel. I started hunting with a H&R 16 ga not much different from the 20 ga the smallest kid in this had,and built one heckuva flinch by my 15th B-day. By then I was shooting an 870, which eased up the flinch immensely from the extra weight. Your son may or may not be able to handle 1 oz loads in that 870 Express. But make it easy on him. Sacrifice that stock,or get another one,and not only shorten it to his specs, but mount a top line recoil pad and make sure the pitch, drop,etc, are suitable for him. While this is being done, add some weight under the pad to keep the shotgun in balance. A couple oz will do the job. When you're done, the piece should balance around the front of the loading port when the weapon is empty, action closed. A stock that fits and enough weight are the keys to shooting comfort.A 1 oz load should be comfortable to shoot in a shotgun well over 6 lbs, and that Express should go about 7. As your son grows, those 1/4" spacers can be added to lengthen the stock by increments. Start out light and stop when he wants to. I'd set some clays on the bank and let him shoot a few, just to see them bust. Then maybe a few handthrown(Like a Frisbee) targets so he can get used to swinging and shooting at a moving target before he steps up to Post 1. Hope this helps...

March 28, 2001, 10:06 AM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Sorry again Steve, I see I ignored a couple of questions you had. Loads were reloads, 3 dram, 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot. Stiffer than needed from the 16 yards line, but they double as dove and game loads. I don't notice the recoil,even from Frankenstein, which is light for a target gun at around 7 lbs. As for how other shooters react to kids on the line, usually even the grumpy old men handle it well.Safety tends ot be the first concern, of course, and if the kids conform and are supervised, it's not much problem. Kids on the line tend to go a little slower than those who have done this a zillion times, and they may need a bit of urging sometimes. Hope this helps...