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Old November 18, 2012, 06:13 AM   #101
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Okay, what does that word mean? But it sounds like he knew how to manage and to learn what he needed to know. That was well before the White House had a chief of staff and other people decided what the president needed to know. Supposedly, Kennedy read a lot of newspapers everyday. Other presidents later were given clippings, probably of things they wanted to see in the paper. Makes a big difference.
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Old November 18, 2012, 06:22 AM   #102
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Finger on the pulse of things. There's a book, Mr. Lincoln's Telegraph, and a talk by the author on the Pritzker Military Library on it.
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Old November 18, 2012, 08:59 AM   #103
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Well, here's a question that might fit within the subject of this thread: What do you suppose was the most advanced small arm (or which used small arms ammunition) that was introduced during the Civil War?
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Old November 18, 2012, 09:31 AM   #104
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"Probably" the Henry.

(Spencer fans might argue, but the Henry design perservered -- quoth Chief Dan George)
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Old November 18, 2012, 10:19 AM   #105
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Agree it was the Henry.

The one advantage the Spencer had was that it was faster to load. Unfortunately, the cocking was a separate operation from working the lever.
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Old November 18, 2012, 11:12 AM   #106
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After I re-read my own question, I realized I had made it quite limited. The Civil was was a less than five year period in time.
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Old November 18, 2012, 11:33 AM   #107
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Upon further reflection

The Henry for small arms and for crew served weapons, the Gatling.

The potential to feed the Gatling by steam engine was there, but Richard Gatling didn't do that for decades to come.
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Old May 22, 2021, 11:09 AM   #108
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I'm doing a tour of Civil War battle sites and this thread has been extremely helpful. And it reminded me of a great historical fiction book I read years ago: The Guns of the South.

The book's premise is that Afrikaners from South Africa travel back in time to aid the Confederacy and they provide that aid largely in the form of AK-47s. In short it describes how automatic weapons changed the course of the war.
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Old May 22, 2021, 01:01 PM   #109
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Harry Turtledove. I've never read it and don't have time for much fiction. I've one fiction book to read (The Forgotten Soldiers about the Finns in WW II. The kids in Finland have to read it).

The Gatling was about the best because of it's individual cartrige that took most of the fouling with it. You can't have a gas operated because it would foul early enough. If you had cartridges, you might be able to get away with a recoil operate one for a while.
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Old May 22, 2021, 09:58 PM   #110
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I'll have to look for that. My mother's side of the family came from Wisconsin. She grew up believing she was of Swedish descent. When she was in her forties her last surviving aunt confessed that they were actually Finnish. Apparently it was easier to fit in as a Swede back then so her grandparents lied. After she told me I read about Finland, and was thrilled with the news.
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Old May 23, 2021, 05:06 AM   #111
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I have loaded black powder for my 1911 and it worked fine for the two mags I shot through it. I know it could have handled more. Cleanup requires a full detail strip tho and a lot of people would balk at cleaning a 1911 with soap and water.
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Old May 23, 2021, 07:50 AM   #112
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One thing BP shooters deal with is smoke obscuring the target.

Its my opinion that the Civil War killed and injured quite enough people with (mostly) muzzle loaders.
Even if this fantasy came true, would life have been better?

Look on youtube for a video "The real story of the Battle of the Somme"

It gives an idea what the Civil War may have been with Maxims.
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Old May 23, 2021, 10:08 AM   #113
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Slaughter was bad enough HiBC. A Gatling gun was used by Ben Butler who opened up unfairly on Corn-feds who left their trenches to do some bartering. Not supposed to fire on soldiers who come out to barter, swap newspapers or what not.

Soldiers knew charging over open ground against a position hardened with field fortification was suicidal. They learned at Fredericksburg, Gettysburg, Kennesaw Mountain. It used to be considered unmanly to hide behind a tree but by 1864 as soon as the column stopped, the soldiers began digging rifle pits. By the end of twenty-four hours, they would have connected them into a trench.
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Old May 23, 2021, 12:42 PM   #114
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Ah yes, the 'rules of war' - something of a contradiction of terms. Good thing the Civil War was so civilized the rest of the time, LOL.
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Old May 23, 2021, 08:57 PM   #115
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> Simple fact, black powder would not work in automatic weapons.

Actually, it will. After a debate on Gunco, one of the forum members loaded up several magazines' worth of 7.62x39 with black powder, took one of his AKs to the range, burned it all off in one extended mag dump, and put the video on YouTube. The gun was filthy, but it was still working when he ran out of ammo.
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Old May 23, 2021, 10:23 PM   #116
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One of several factors that contributed to the doom of Custer's troops was black powder fouling and failures to extract. I believe there was battlefield evidence to prove it.

The "What if" "Woulda,shoulda,coulda" game is,IMO, removed from reality.

I'm not going to suggest its substance induced. Some people do cross over from reality to a videogame place that exists in their mind. Cross back over,to the RealWorld,and we deal with what is,or was.

If the manufacturing tech and firearms design advanced that far at the time....

With no disrespect to the folks of the Southern States, Why is there an assumption it would be to the benefit of the South?
It would seem to me more likely the progress would be made n the New England and Mid Atlantic states,simply because of the focus on Industry versus Agriculture in those regions.

IMO,its likely the M-3 Greaseguns would be held by the folks wearing blue,and the uniforms with multiple holes would be Grey.Lots of them.

Speculation,of course.

However it happened, its water downstream. I'm glad we outlawed Slavery.
I'm glad the Union was preserved .

I'm glad the Civil War was NOT fought with more efficient killing machines.

The Citizens who fought ,bled and died paid far too high a price.

And I say that for both the Blue and the Grey.

If we want to play "What if......?" How about "What if.....paintballs? And "Time Out"
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Old May 27, 2021, 10:25 PM   #117
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Quote:
However it happened, its water downstream. I'm glad we outlawed Slavery.
I'm glad the Union was preserved .

I'm glad the Civil War was NOT fought with more efficient killing machines.

The Citizens who fought ,bled and died paid far too high a price.

And I say that for both the Blue and the Grey.

If we want to play "What if......?" How about "What if.....paintballs? And "Time Out"
Precisely how I feel. And I was born and raised in the South, and I am very proud of being Southern and I try to carry on southern traditions. I also have toyed with joining the sons of confederate veterans. Not because I wish the confederacy would have won, but merely because I had an ancestor who fought for the south and for the history of it. Alas, because of my profession I have decided against it due to its current controversy.

I am glad the North won. I detest the fact that the nation ever allowed human beings to be owned as property.

As to automatic weapons in the war between the states... percussion rifles were still fairly new at the time. Literally flintlocks were the mainstay until just 30-40 years before. Historically speaking, the flintlock era still was a longer period of time than we’ve been in the cartridge era (cartridge as a mainstay, at least).

In fact, I think the war was fought with cutting edge technology at the time. Wars fought prior to the civil war were fought with smoothbore muskets and troops on line firing volleys at one another from 100 yards or so. 30 years before the civil war, a slow to load patched round ball was the only way to utilize rifles barrels. 30 years before the civil war, no revolver was yet patented. Smokeless powder was still 30 years away. Firearms technology was very much on the cutting edge of current technology at that time. We just weren’t there yet with recoil and gas operated firearms.
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Old May 28, 2021, 06:34 PM   #118
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Rifle muskets were used in the Crimean War. That's covered in my first book.

Anyway, I'm glad the Gatling wasn't given more of a chance to prove itself. What happened was bad enough as is and there was no shortage of suffering.

Interesting tidbit is that the Minie Ball rifle's reign was rather short. Came into service before the Crimean War and by the time the Austro-Prussian War came about, only one side was using it (they lost). Single shot breechloaders were used by both sides in the Franco-Prussian War. By the time of Plevna, one side (Turks) were using single shots for long range fire and reverted to Winchesters as the Russians got close. By the 1880s, repeaters were pretty much standard.

At the time, no one thought of using recoil or gas to operate an action. Everything was mechanically operated. Steam engine (locomotive) were around, but not harnassed for firearms operation (Gatling did it with his gun for naval ships).
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