Perhaps a little help with 231?

Yoosta B. Blue · November 19, 2009, 10:34 AM

I have some .45 230 gr FMJ bullets that I've been loading with Bullseye, and they shoot very well. I'd like to experiment with these bullets using 231 to propel them. However, the numbers I see are all over the map, ranging from 4.2 to 6.3 gr. , depending on where you look. If you have any insight to pass along, I'd be grateful. Thanks!

YBB

cpermd · November 19, 2009, 11:10 AM

5.2 grains gives me 830 fps out of a 5" barrel.

CP

QBall45 · November 19, 2009, 11:15 AM

231 is a great powder for 45acp. I use 4.5gr with my 200gr cast lead. This makes a very nice target load.

Sorry, but I don't have a start load for 230gr fmj as the day I started casting my own was the last day I loaded any fmj's.

**Unclenick** · November 19, 2009, 11:31 AM

5.2 grains of Winchester 231 or Hodgdon HP38 (same powder in different packaging) under a Hornady 230 grain FMJ bullet seated to 1.265" will mimic commercial hardball (about 350 ft-lbs). 5.7 grains will mimic military hardball (about 400 ft-lbs). Any load with that bullet from about 4.0 grains and up will function the 1911 with standard springs.

The load of 6.3 grains is over +P pressure in QuickLOAD. I would avoid that.

Smokey Joe · November 19, 2009, 11:32 AM

Yoosta B. Blue--I'm with Q Ball on this one--Lead SWC's are all I shoot from my 1911. 200 grains here, too--I use just a few tenths of a grain of W 231 more than Q Ball; works great For Me, but you have to experiment and find what your own pistol likes.

I'm guessing yours is a .45 ACP--you don't say. Could be .45 LC, or something more exotic.

As always on these fora, the more details you can give, the more exact and to-the-point can be the answers you get.

Have you read up in the various loading manuals as to what might be a good amount of W 231 for you--they would give you a fine starting point. Granted, you will get quite a range of loads--Start at the bottom of that range and work up. NEVER start with a max load.

Question: You stated

Quote:

I've been loading with Bullseye, and they shoot very well.

What for do you want to try another powder? As my grandmother always said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

**Unclenick** · November 19, 2009, 11:38 AM

Good point on the chambering. Given the 230 grain ball bullet and the load levels mentioned, I just assumed .45 ACP. If it is .45 GAP, these loads could be dangerous. In .45 Colt they'd be too light.

Yoosta B. Blue · November 19, 2009, 11:59 AM

Many thanks to each of you good men who have offered me some help. I'm indebted to each of you.

QBall45 -- I recently started casting, as well. (And I'm lovin' it!) These that I'm wanting to load with 231 are some FMJ bullets that came in a lot of stuff that I got a heck of a bargain on.

Unclenick -- you can be sure that I'll not get anywhere near that max load. No need to.

Smokey Joe -- sorry I didn't mention my gun. This new Beretta PX4 Storm is (in my humble, but accurate opinion)

one of the sweetest guns I've ever shot. Just can't get enough of it! You asked

Quote:

What for do you want to try another powder? As my grandmother always said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Over the course of the last couple years that I've been reloading, I have worked up a load of Bullseye for just about all the pistols that I shoot. I thought it would be fun to see if I can do so with 231. A friend recently introduced me to 231, and I really like it!

And yes, I have consulted the various manuals that I have. That's where I discovered such a diversity of charge weights that different folks suggest for the load I want to use...

Yoosta B. Blue

Ozzieman · November 19, 2009, 09:37 PM

I have been reloading now for over 30 years and I have tried a lot of powders and for 9mm and 45 ACP 231 is my favorite. I shoot 200 gr cast lead and 230 FMJ only and for the FMJ my Gold cup and my Kimber’s use the same loading as cpermd, 5.2. It’s easy on the cases and the hand and the other thing I like about 231 is that it’s very clean.
"If it ant broke dont fix it! was the rule of thumb then we would all still be shooting black powder in single shot guns.

Experimentation is the fun part of reloading.
The following is a good place to check for loads.
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Wleoff · November 19, 2009, 09:51 PM

The Hodgdon site is good. I use the load data in the Hornady Manual for 45 ACP. One thing that we did learn was not to underload 231 below the minimum load in the manuals. A friend of mine wanted to load some 230 grain bullets a little low for use at the range. Accuracy was poor and last week we ran the rounds thru a chronograph. The velocity varied by several hundred fps.

We always hear about not loading above the maximums in the loading manuals, but there's a reason for the minimum loads, too. According to Lane Pearce, 231 is especially sensitive to low loads below the minimums.

Smokey Joe · November 19, 2009, 10:18 PM

Yoosta B. Blue--We all wish for this:

Quote:

These that I'm wanting to load with 231 are some FMJ bullets that came in a lot of stuff that I got a heck of a bargain on.

"Here, take the whole box of 'stuff' for $10. But you have to take the whole box!" I've had one or 2 such boxes of miscellaneous myself.

Then the question becomes, "Well, I got the nice items out, now what am I going to do with the rest of this 'stuff?'" Which you seem to have answered, at least for those 230 grain FMJ's!

Yoosta B. Blue · November 21, 2009, 05:43 AM

Thanks again, folks. I'll load up a few at 5.2 gr of 231 and see how that works in my pistol.

YBB

Ozzieman · November 21, 2009, 03:38 PM

The 5.2, personally I would start a little lighter and work your way up and find the sweet spot for your gun.
My Kimber Royal Cary with the shorter barrel likes a little hotter load for accuracy but I load for my Gold Cup and that is the one that works best.

**Shane Tuttle** · November 21, 2009, 05:05 PM

I beg the question on what OAL are you using? I'm using 1.230" for most of mine with 5.0gr. As most say 5.2 works for them, I'd still back it down a bit more to be on the safe side on your starting loads.

Yoosta B. Blue · November 23, 2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

I beg the question on what OAL are you using? I'm using 1.230" for most of mine with 5.0gr. As most say 5.2 works for them, I'd still back it down a bit more to be on the safe side on your starting loads.

I use an OAL of 1.210 to 1.230 on all the .45 ACP stuff that I load. The five test rounds that this thread is about are set at 1.230.

No problem on backing down a little. I'll just set these aside and load a few using 5.0 gr of 231. I appreciate the concern being exhitited here.
YBB

November 19, 2009, 10:34 AM	#1
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Perhaps a little help with 231? I have some .45 230 gr FMJ bullets that I've been loading with Bullseye, and they shoot very well. I'd like to experiment with these bullets using 231 to propel them. However, the numbers I see are all over the map, ranging from 4.2 to 6.3 gr. , depending on where you look. If you have any insight to pass along, I'd be grateful. Thanks! YBB Last edited by Yoosta B. Blue; November 19, 2009 at 10:42 AM.

November 19, 2009, 11:31 AM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	5.2 grains of Winchester 231 or Hodgdon HP38 (same powder in different packaging) under a Hornady 230 grain FMJ bullet seated to 1.265" will mimic commercial hardball (about 350 ft-lbs). 5.7 grains will mimic military hardball (about 400 ft-lbs). Any load with that bullet from about 4.0 grains and up will function the 1911 with standard springs. The load of 6.3 grains is over +P pressure in QuickLOAD. I would avoid that. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 19, 2009, 11:38 AM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Good point on the chambering. Given the 230 grain ball bullet and the load levels mentioned, I just assumed .45 ACP. If it is .45 GAP, these loads could be dangerous. In .45 Colt they'd be too light. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 21, 2009, 05:05 PM	#13
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	I beg the question on what OAL are you using? I'm using 1.230" for most of mine with 5.0gr. As most say 5.2 works for them, I'd still back it down a bit more to be on the safe side on your starting loads. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

November 19, 2009, 11:10 AM	#2
cpermd Member Join Date: March 4, 2001 Posts: 36	5.2 grains gives me 830 fps out of a 5" barrel. CP

November 19, 2009, 11:15 AM	#3
QBall45 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2008 Location: South Central Minnesota Posts: 584	231 is a great powder for 45acp. I use 4.5gr with my 200gr cast lead. This makes a very nice target load. Sorry, but I don't have a start load for 230gr fmj as the day I started casting my own was the last day I loaded any fmj's.

November 19, 2009, 09:37 PM	#8
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I have been reloading now for over 30 years and I have tried a lot of powders and for 9mm and 45 ACP 231 is my favorite. I shoot 200 gr cast lead and 230 FMJ only and for the FMJ my Gold cup and my Kimber’s use the same loading as cpermd, 5.2. It’s easy on the cases and the hand and the other thing I like about 231 is that it’s very clean. "If it ant broke dont fix it! was the rule of thumb then we would all still be shooting black powder in single shot guns. Experimentation is the fun part of reloading. The following is a good place to check for loads. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

November 19, 2009, 09:51 PM	#9
Wleoff Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2008 Location: North AL Posts: 380	The Hodgdon site is good. I use the load data in the Hornady Manual for 45 ACP. One thing that we did learn was not to underload 231 below the minimum load in the manuals. A friend of mine wanted to load some 230 grain bullets a little low for use at the range. Accuracy was poor and last week we ran the rounds thru a chronograph. The velocity varied by several hundred fps. We always hear about not loading above the maximums in the loading manuals, but there's a reason for the minimum loads, too. According to Lane Pearce, 231 is especially sensitive to low loads below the minimums.

November 21, 2009, 05:43 AM	#11
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Thanks again, folks. I'll load up a few at 5.2 gr of 231 and see how that works in my pistol. YBB

November 21, 2009, 03:38 PM	#12
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	The 5.2, personally I would start a little lighter and work your way up and find the sweet spot for your gun. My Kimber Royal Cary with the shorter barrel likes a little hotter load for accuracy but I load for my Gold Cup and that is the one that works best.