# of rounds till reliable

[xraygunlover]

How many FTF/ FTE Free rounds do you require out of your go to SD/HD gun before you consider it reliable?

[drail]

One thousand minimum.

[pythagorean]

I've heard 150 or 250 or 500.

Fact is you will know reliability before a box or when the magazine is emptied.

In other words, you buy a pistol (auto) and shoot it for the first time. If it makes it through a magazine chances are it is reliable without having to "prove" it with 500 or 1000 rounds.

In all of my years I have found that the unreliable pistol is quickly discovered with less than 50 rounds fired. If 50 rounds are fired after a hiccup in a magazine that magazine just keeps hiccuping. If the pistol makes it through the magazine it makes it through the box and 100s more.

The reliability of a pistol that works from the start is pretty much proven.

[Samuel2011]

Pythagorean is probably correct.
I have purchased a few firearm that started giving me grief within the first or second magazine and never got better.

I have also gotten one or two that just didn't function the first time out to the range, but the second time out they ran like champs. In both cases ammo or ammo design (both 9mm and both shooting FMJ) had been the culprit. Even ran great with all types of hollow points, just didn't like a particular brand of FMJs.

I currently own a Sig P6 that runs with everything I can schuck in the magazines, exept Remington Golden Sabers of any weight. Go figure?

[Mosin44az]

Assuming no other problems, 100 rounds with my chosen defense load with no issues. It used to be 200, but cost is a factor....

I usually also run at least 100 rounds of fmj through before any test with defense loads, so I guess 200 rounds minimum is actually my answer.

I have had a few guns begin to have extraction failures after 300 rounds or so, this happened with two XD9s and two first generation Kel-tec P32s, I attribute to loss of tension in the extractors....

But generally, as others have noted, a gun that's good out of the box for 200 rounds has been good to carry.

[FreakGasolineFight]

Never really had a set number of rounds. My Hi-Point has summat over 1200 and my CZ has about 800, so I consider both reliable.

[bigghoss]

personally I've never felt a gun should require a break in to be reliable right out of the box, but I don't feel good about trusting my life to a gun with less than 500 rounds through it either, just to make sure there are no issues with it and also at that point I'm familiar enough with the gun and it's operation to be comfortable carrying it. as for a chosen carry load, I like to run at least a box through it.

[imthegrumpyone]

It should be only ONE but than again they're man made, by workers, that some cases have no "work ethics" and companies that money is more important than quality control.

[BODAME]

"How many FTF/ FTE Free rounds do you require out of your go to SD/HD gun before you consider it reliable?"
Excuse me for being Old and Dumb.
What is SD/HD ?
Thanks
A Old FXXt

[MidwestRookie]

self defense and home defense..

[jgcoastie]

It's been said before that if you own a particular gun that has not had a failure of some sort; it only means you haven't put enough rounds through it. There's some truth to that statement.

All firearms are mechanical objects. All mechanical objects either have failed or will fail. That is fact, take it to the bank. There's no magic number of rounds you have to put through a firearm to be able to say it is now reliable.

However, prudence tells us we should shoot our typical carry/SD/HD ammo through the gun to ensure the ammo is compatible with the gun. About 50 rounds should be enough to test for ammo compatibility.

The real obstacle to overcome with defensive firearms has nothing to do with a specific round count to ensure reliability. I can pull any ol' arbitraty number out of my keester and say that's how many rounds it takes for a gun to become relaible. However, the wiser path is to learn how to rapidly recognize and clear failures and get the gun back in service when you do experiance a failure of some sort. This is where training comes in to play. You could have "the most reliable gun in the world" and still experience a jam or failure of some sort. If you have not trained on clearance of these jams/failures, then you will most likely die if it happens in an actual armed confrontation.

So my short answer is around 50rds, but that's for me to verify that the ammo will cycle and is more a test of the ammo than the gun itself. As many others have implied in this thread; a failure that surfaces after 5 rounds will probably still be there after 200 rounds.

[BODAME]

Thanks for the Assist on HD/PD Terms.
Based on Experience,Pick Firearms that you have experenced the lowest rate
of ISSUES per 1000 Rounds.
After a Lot of Water Under The Bridge our Choices for HD/PD Firearms (Carry,Homes,Autos) are as Follows :
38 & 357 S&W Revolvers and Sig Autos
1100 Remington Shotguns
CX4 Storm Carbines

[Leejack]

Everybody has their own "magic number".

Me, I feel it. I just know when it's ready for defense duty. It truely is magic!

[Dc9Loser]

I'd say put a 100 rounds of the ammo which you intend to carry through the gun. Some guns won't shoot certain ammo.

I have a Taraus PT140, 40 S&W, which I loaded up with Corbon for SD. Actually carried it that way for a while.

Then one day I shot it with the Corbon in it. Pulled the trigger and nothing.

Taurus guns will reset each time you pull the trigger. So it turned out that it took about 2 to 5 pulls of the trigger for each round of ammo.

Every other round I've fired in that pistol (after the first 100 in which it had some FTC) worked - but apparently the gun has a weak striker system which won't work too well with Corbon.

Moral to the story - make sure that your ammo works in your gun before trusting your life on it.

[Kreyzhorse]

If I put a box or two through it problem free I consider it ready to go. I'm sure guns can get broken in with use, but I'm not a big believer that a gun needs to be broken in. With that said, I've never bought a gun that has been any thing but reliable out of the box with all kinds of various ammo.

[WESHOOT2]

All of them.

[Skans]

100 - 200.

[Daryl]

How many FTF/ FTE Free rounds do you require out of your go to SD/HD gun before you consider it reliable?

By the time I've shot a handgun enough to be comfortable and hitting where I want, I'll know if it's reliable.

I no longer know how many rounds I've put through a G23 that I bought last July, but it's been flawless from the first shot.

Daryl

[spodwo]

I had a pistol that was 100% reliable until around 150-200 rounds. Then it started to have FTE every magazine or two. Unacceptable....

[ClydeFrog]

This topic comes up here from time to time.
In short, I'd say at least 250 rounds of the selected carry or duty round w/o problems or misfires should "prove" a a handgun.
The late author/gun expert Robert Boatman; www.BoatmanBooks.com said in a video clip that gun owners/armed professionals/military troops etc should practice often with the SAME kind of ammunition they plan to use.
This may not be practical for $$$ or other reasons but it's good advice, .

Some gun writers, sworn LEOs and instructors say at least 500 rounds should be used but with improved firearms & advanced handgun ammuntion, Id say 250 rounds should be fine.

[Skans]

I had a pistol that was 100% reliable until around 150-200 rounds. Then it started to have FTE every magazine or two. Unacceptable....

Just curious, did you clean it to see if that was the problem. I find that in smaller guns, there is less room for error and when they get dirty, they start to get FTF's and FTE's. As soon as I clean it, it's back to being reliable again.

I say this because, at least in a carry piece, I expect 100% reliability while it is clean, but the fact that it might become unreliable when dirtied by 100+ rounds, doesn't really bother me. I just need it to be 100% for, at most, 10 rounds.

However, if its unreliable for other reasons than accumulation of burnt gunpowder residue, then that is a different, more serious problem for me.

[BigJimP]

100 rds is probably enough .....

but over time ....you just develop confidence with the gun ( not that I have ever had to use it ) --- but I shoot my carry weapon ( for me a 1911 in .45 acp ) most every week a little. But you have to remember they are all just mechanical beasts - they need maintenance - and you need to look after them.

[Magyar]

Right out of the box...After a take down to examine parts, clean & re-lube and out to the range with varying ammo. If it FTF during the 1st box, back to mfgr or sell in the aisles of the next gun show...I don't believe in "break-in" for many reasons.....So, to the OP, the first 50 rds....

[fastbolt]

I've been influenced by my experiences as a firearms instructor and by the many armorer classes I've attended over the years.

I inspect each new handgun for anything obviously out-of-spec which might have slipped through QC, as well as anything left over from the machining, production and assembly process (burrs, debris, filings, excessive packing oil, etc).

Once I determine the gun appears to be in normal condition, I clean and lubricate it (including pistols magazines) and try it out at our range, using quality ammunition. I don't believe in scrimping and test-firing a handgun, especially a semiauto pistol, using less than good quality ammunition. Might as well try to minimize potential ammunition issues from the beginning.

If the gun is an established make/model, especially made by a company which has acquired a lot of experience in making weapons for LE/Gov use, I'll usually run 100-150 rounds through it the first time out. If everything runs well, I'll be willing to carry the weapon at that point.

I do, however, like to run at least another 100-150 rounds through the gun, as soon as possible, using whatever duty-type/defensive ammunition is going to be carried. I like to help the machined surfaces mate themselves and become smooth by use.

If duty ammunition changes, then I like to repeat the process with the new ammunition, making sure it runs as expected in my gun.

I like to have each magazine used to fire at least 50 rounds to check for magazine condition and functioning. Magazines are, after all, "assemblies", and deserve their own inspection and function-testing.

If a condition requires repair or correction at some point, then I like to run at least 2-3 magazine loads through the repaired pistol (which has usually been the recommendation in various armorer classes). If time and ammunition permits, I'll stretch that to include at least 50 (or more) rounds fired by the user of the repaired weapon after I do my own live-fire confirmation of normal functioning. I've found that sometimes there's a lingering "shooter problem" to address.

I've also come to desire to have users of duty (and personally-owned) weapons realize that I wouldn't willingly or knowingly return a repaired weapon to them unless I was willing to carry and use it myself, and I've found it seems to instill confidence in the weapon for them if they see me test-fire it without issue, and then have them do further test-fire while I'm present.

Interestingly enough, I've found that a surprising number of folks usually want to stop the test-firing with plenty of ammunition still available for their use. I suppose that balances out the few who are willing to stay there until the ammo well runs dry, though.

It might pay to remember that there are several potential influences involved when it comes to obtaining optimal functioning from a gun ...

The shooter (arguably the most significant of all potential influences)
The ammunition
The maintenance practices used
The environmental conditions in which the gun is being used
The gun itself

FWIW, when it comes to having had to identify and resolve many "problems'" over the years I've helped support quite a number of various firearms used by LE folks, the "shooter-related" problems have been the most common, by far ... including addressing issues related to improper grip technique/manipulation, improper loading, lack of proper user level maintenance, etc.

Just my thoughts.

[youngunz4life]

I'm not an expert, but I trust my judgement with my firearms. When it comes our handguns(all revolvers), I feel comfortable after a box or two of the ammo I have decided to use for that particular firearm(I actually use a different, seperate type of round for each revolver). I'll always shoot 2 to 3 full capacity 'run-thrus' when I put a different ammo in a handgun I plan on using for SD/HD. After that, it stays loaded ready-to-go. I'll even test it down the road too well after it has been loaded and not used for a while. Basically, one day when I feel like shooting a tree in my backyard(sorry tree huggers- I really do love the environment), I'll just shoot the CCW and/or HD handgun with no preparation except for pulling it out of my pocket or safe. This can also be done at the range. I already know(or am almost positive it is going to function properly by this point), but it is good to see how it would've functioned if it had been being used in a life-threatening situation instead of to leave a mark on my property or in a target down range.

I also do some shooting when I buy a rifle or shotgun too. I think this is a good thing. If you do buy a firearm, it is my advice to shoot it at least some before you stash in it your home.

Do what makes you feel comfortable, but honestly I think most will feel more comfortable after at least giving the firearm a little attention. I am not saying the OP wasn't doing this; I am just saying it as advice to any other TFL members that do not shoot as often as others. You will feel more comfortable and secure with the weapon after shooting it yourself. This will help if you ever do have to rely on it in an emergency. Believe it or not, some people do buy weapons and secure them without even firing them once. I have never done this, but it is always the owner's decision. The only way to know if something isn't right is to first put some rounds thru it. I always think its cool how that "Pawn Stars" guy tests his weapons whenever he buys one - even the really old ones like the little muzzle cannon I think the pirates used when pulling into port.